New Doubles Scoring Started This Week

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
I'm curious to hear feedback from the players. And if the duration of the matches is considerably shorter due to the changes.
 

Fee

Legend
They backed off the 4 games all tiebreak and changed it to a 5 games all tiebreak. It will be tested at 6 of the fall tournaments, Beijing is one of them. They have also apparently backed off the '2008 Rule' which means that all of the doubles specialists will still have jobs for a while.
 

Redflea

Hall of Fame
Sad day for tennis...can't believe this will do anything to improve the popularity of doubles. Just relegates it to a "tennis-lite" category.
 

aj_m2009

Professional
Im actually really surprised they went thru with this!:O All its gonna do is make the sport less popular. I mean u have singles with one set of scoring, then u have doubles with another set. The scoring was already confusing enuf without this crap!

And shouldnt the Ratiwatana Bros have beatin Montgomery and Philips 6-4 5-2?:confused: See, Im confused already lol!
 

Matthew

Professional
aj_m2009 said:
Im actually really surprised they went thru with this!:O All its gonna do is make the sport less popular. I mean u have singles with one set of scoring, then u have doubles with another set. The scoring was already confusing enuf without this crap!
Do you think that this scoring will actually catch on recreationally?
 

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
The ATP says it will wait until the week before the Masters Cup Doubles to decide whether it will use the abbreviated scoring format at the event: "Making the doubles scoring changes on Masters Cup or not is yet to be decided by the ATP board," said ATP official Iggy Jovanovic. "In the last 18 months, the ATP Research and Development Doubles Project Team studied that doubles event could be played better by shortening the match to make it more attractive to fans and TV, as well as attracting more singles players to participate."

http://www.tennis-x.com/story/2005-09-14/d.php
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
That is about as disingenuous as it comes. "...to make it more attractive to fans and TV..". Yeah, other than the Tennis Channel, any coverage of doubles would increase their coverage by 100%
 

norcal

Hall of Fame
Judging by the scores you eliminate two games a set if it goes to a tiebreak, right? Then no-ad speeds it up too?
 

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
From the Weller Evans thread at the top of the page:

"As you read in this feature earlier, there have been discussions about no-ad scoring and shorter sets in doubles. As I write I am watching one such doubles match in Beijing. However, the current experiment would not seem to go far enough in accomplishing the stated goal of making the length of a doubles match more predictable."
 

Noelle

Hall Of Fame
I think the ATP and the doubles players have gone into mediation, and these are the terms of settlement:

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_tennis/2005/09/doubles_controv.html
The raging controversy over the future of men's doubles is virtually over after newly hired chairman of the board Etienne de Villiers delivered a very promising settlement proposal to the 45 players who last Thursday sued the ATP Tour.

The key points from de Villiers:

* Revocation of the "2008 Rule," which would have prohibited any player from participating in doubles at an ATP event who was not concurrently in the singles draw. That would have effectively killed doubles.

* Accept the several low-financial impact proposals from the players, including the hiring of a director of doubles, who would be a sort of advocate for the doubles players. Other items on that players list include requiring tournament directors to post placards on the grounds showing the doubles rankings and the doubles draw and making a full effort to promote doubles with free clinics and radio, TV and newspaper spots.

* Continue with plans for an experimental use of altered scoring for the rest of the season, beginning after the U.S. Open. That means no-ad scoring (receiving team getting choice of ad or deuce box on the seventh and final point), tiebreaks at 5-5 instead of 6-6 and super-tiebreaks is sets are one-all.

There is still a hard core of players who want to get rid of the scoring changes as well, but there appears to be a growing feeling that de Villiers is going to be reasonable to deal with in settling all the issues that have driven doubles players to sue, and they're willing to drop the suit.
http://www.savedoubles.com/ is the official website for the doubles players affected.
 

simi

Hall of Fame
Rabbit said:
..... any coverage of doubles would increase their coverage by 100%
Nah! It isn't that bad. Heck, in a good year we get to see at least three Davis Cup doubles matches on a Saturday.
 

equinox

Hall of Fame
Matthew said:
Do you think that this scoring will actually catch on recreationally?
Alot of night tennis competitions in Australia already play first to 6 game sets, with a tiebreaker played at 5-5 all.

This is because of the time issues in night tennis competitions. In which 6 sets must be completed between say 8pm-10.30pm.

This shortens the tennis by 12 games. Saves maybe 20-30 minutes.

I don't like this scoring. Because you must get off to a good start.

Go 4-1 down and you're pretty much stuffed.
 

peter

Professional
equinox said:
Alot of night tennis competitions in Australia already play first to 6 game sets, with a tiebreaker played at 5-5 all.
In a lot of recreational competitions around here we often shorten the matches (play one set, one set with start at 2-2, best-of-two sets (and a supertiebreak to 10 if it stands 1-1 after the normal sets) etc etc - all depending on how my time we have available. We've also tested a variant called "Sprint" where you instead of playing normal sets play tiebreaks - so a match is "best of three tiebreaks" (we tested two variants - tiebreak to 7 and to 10. My personal feeling is that it felt better playing tiebreaks to 10 in that case).

That part of the proposal I think I could live with (even though I don't like it when it comes to more "important" matches). The part I really dislike is the no-ad scoring. It really takes away an important and fun part of a match.
 

wjwalsh

New User
When Wayne Arthurs is top seed of a doubles tournament then you know doubles has a problem.I see no problem in the ATP getting rid of the fodder that is doubles.How many people are honestly interested in a doubles tournament like the one in China?
 

Noelle

Hall Of Fame
wjwalsh said:
I see no problem in the ATP getting rid of the fodder that is doubles.How many people are honestly interested in a doubles tournament like the one in China?
You are echoing the sentiments of the ATP officials who railroaded these proposed doubles changes. Unfortunately, players and 8 out of 10 Chinese fans don't like the changes, so you and the ATP officials seem to be in the minority.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
simi said:
Nah! It isn't that bad. Heck, in a good year we get to see at least three Davis Cup doubles matches on a Saturday.

My bad, I forgot about Davis Cup. But wait, with the U.S.'s current Davis Cup woes, we only get one match a season!

I think that the doubles guys should split off. For one thing, they don't make a ton of money now. Since there's no money in it, there's no way the high dollar singles guys are going to participate. Plus, if the doubles guys started their own tour, they could run it any way they see fit.

I would love to see them do what Kramer did with the early professional tour. Play smaller venues. Hell, medium sized towns like the one I live in, or towns that don't currently get any professional tennis (and there are plenty of them) would support a doubles tournament once or twice a year. What it would require is these guys go do some glad handing with the public and with businesses that would have to put up the money. They'd have to do pro/ams. They'd have to meet and greet the public.

I think they could turn it into a viable effort if they didn't get greedy. If you think about it, manufacturers would get more widespread exposure at the local level if something like this happened. It would be good for all around, it just wouldn't be as high dollar as the current effort is and the stops wouldn't be as glamorous. But working guys are working guys.

The two tours, much like the ATP and WTA, could meet up at bigger events like Grand Slams and play side by side. Doubles guys with high enough rankings could get into the main draw and try their hands at singles.
 
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