New forehand takeback

[StringSnapper]

Tried this out yesterday after watching Fed live and the results were great, felt like I couldn't miss a fh and more power than usual.

I noticed during his takeback he kind of points the racquet face (strings) at the ball, or where he'll make contact at least. I tried holding this position for as long as possible before contact and it worked a treat.

I wonder if it's something to do with visually being able to see the strings for longer, by body knows better where my racquet is in space and time. On my bh which is probably my better shot,I try to "line up" my racquet hand with the ball visually also, but haven't been able to do it on the fh as well.. until yesterday.

for clarity this is what i mean:


BTW, this is what he looks like just before his ready position; basically instantly starts to point the strings at the ball


Also @J011yroger this time I told myself to try to stay balanced by keeping my head over my hips. It worked a lot better especially on my forehand, at least when combined with this new fed takeback.

 

[J011yroger]

Also @J011yroger this time I told myself to try to stay balanced by keeping my head over my hips. It worked a lot better especially on my forehand, at least when combined with this new fed takeback.

Woo!

J

 

[StringSnapper]

updated op with pics.

 

[StringSnapper]

Woo!

J

yeah worked a lot better than the cue "keep shoulders level", i think that just made me stiff

 

[Curious]

Ok one more thing to think about: keep head over hips! When will we be able to play this sh1t without thinking?!

 

[ubercat]

Unit turn. Point arm. Turn back with hips leaving arm behind. Freely follow through.

That's more than enough forehand for me.

 

[atp2015]

Tried this out yesterday after watching Fed live and the results were great, felt like I couldn't miss a fh and more power than usual.

I noticed during his takeback he kind of points the racquet face (strings) at the ball, or where he'll make contact at least. I tried holding this position for as long as possible before contact and it worked a treat.

I wonder if it's something to do with visually being able to see the strings for longer, .

This is the modern forehand (aka ATP fh).
Pointing the racket does 2 things -
1 engages shoulder for more power
2 puts the wrist in laid back position for consistency

Holding the racket position as long as possible improves rhs. How? Maximizes the distance racket has to travel before striking the ball allowing the racket to build speed.

 

[user92626]

Man, I feel adult recreational tennis is sooo hopeless.

I already "mastered" this takeback ages ago, which couldn't be more "beginning stuff", and have tried all sorts of timing, strength-based hittings, lowerbody loading, etc.. but my shots are still pale in comparison to those hit by the late teens, or early 20s.

Those "kids" are skinnier, shorter, no idea about their rackets' weights, but their shots are huge. Almost pro-like and I have seen pros rally live.

 

[FiReFTW]

Man, I feel adult recreational tennis is sooo hopeless.

I already "mastered" this takeback ages ago, which couldn't be more "beginning stuff", and have tried all sorts of timing, strength-based hittings, lowerbody loading, etc.. but my shots are still pale in comparison to those hit by the late teens, or early 20s.

Those "kids" are skinnier, shorter, no idea about their rackets' weights, but their shots are huge. Almost pro-like and I have seen pros rally live.

They just know how to engage the body efficiently and hit with their whole body and have good footwork to get in perfect position to do it.

Alot of rec players dont know how to really swing with their whole body and mostly arm it.

Some do know, but dont have great footwork so unless the ball is perfectly hit to them they dont get proper spacing and/or timing to be able to swing using their body and are forced to use more arm.

Proper spacing
Proper timing
Using whole body in sync to hit the ball
Clean contact

Equals

Easy huge power


But of course it sounds easy but its not

 

[StringSnapper]

This is the modern forehand (aka ATP fh).
Pointing the racket does 2 things -
1 engages shoulder for more power
2 puts the wrist in laid back position for consistency

Holding the racket position as long as possible improves rhs. How? Maximizes the distance racket has to travel before striking the ball allowing the racket to build speed.

Most pros don't seem to point the strings at the ball though, its more like the edge of the racquet is facing the ball. I thought maybe it was because of Feds eastern grip, but i could do it with my SW too.

 

[StringSnapper]

Man, I feel adult recreational tennis is sooo hopeless.

I already "mastered" this takeback ages ago, which couldn't be more "beginning stuff", and have tried all sorts of timing, strength-based hittings, lowerbody loading, etc.. but my shots are still pale in comparison to those hit by the late teens, or early 20s.

Those "kids" are skinnier, shorter, no idea about their rackets' weights, but their shots are huge. Almost pro-like and I have seen pros rally live.

i think learning and evolving is generally a circular process - it may seem you're back at the start, but have you improved? i think thats why a league and ranking system helps. this thread may seem very basic, but my ranking has improved up 3 times since i started playing competitively

 

[StringSnapper]

They just know how to engage the body efficiently and hit with their whole body and have good footwork to get in perfect position to do it.

Alot of rec players dont know how to really swing with their whole body and mostly arm it.

Some do know, but dont have great footwork so unless the ball is perfectly hit to them they dont get proper spacing and/or timing to be able to swing using their body and are forced to use more arm.

Proper spacing
Proper timing
Using whole body in sync to hit the ball
Clean contact

Equals

Easy huge power


But of course it sounds easy but its not

yeah and i think when everything is right "when the stars align", you can confidently go for huge swings. if i didn't know i was unbalanced during my forehand for example, whenever i go for an unusual shot where i was on the run or lunged at the ball or something, id make tones of errors. now i know, it was probably because i wasnt balanced properly (leaning instead of using my feet) - now those shots feel way different, and i feel more bullet proof like there isnt a shot i cant hit now

unconscious incompetence (average rec player with no lessons or hasn't seen footage of themselves hit before)
conscious incompetence (after receiving feedback or trying it out for the first time, or just unable to get it perfectly right... me with the serve still)
conscious competence (me right now on the forehand with balance - but i can easily forget to do it)
unconscious competence (these kids, Federer)

 

[user92626]

They just know how to engage the body efficiently and hit with their whole body and have good footwork to get in perfect position to do it.

Alot of rec players dont know how to really swing with their whole body and mostly arm it.

Some do know, but dont have great footwork so unless the ball is perfectly hit to them they dont get proper spacing and/or timing to be able to swing using their body and are forced to use more arm.

Proper spacing
Proper timing
Using whole body in sync to hit the ball
Clean contact

Equals

Easy huge power


But of course it sounds easy but its not

I have tried all those, but you know one thing i haven't had success with, and you haven't thought of above?

A large take back or back swing! Like the racket head pointing to the back fence and starting acceleration from there. Not the measly , half ass backs wing.

 

[user92626]

i think learning and evolving is generally a circular process - it may seem you're back at the start, but have you improved? i think thats why a league and ranking system helps. this thread may seem very basic, but my ranking has improved up 3 times since i started playing competitively

I am not sure about anything anymore. I used to believe that it was a matter of knowing and practicing. Well, I aint seeing the kind of progress that I expect to accompany my effort. At best I'm just (slightly) better than the people that I play with.

The self discovering and learning approach doesn't lead to breakthroughs or the kind of quality that you see from tournament qualifiers even if you have the fitness!!!

 

[FiReFTW]

yeah and i think when everything is right "when the stars align", you can confidently go for huge swings. if i didn't know i was unbalanced during my forehand for example, whenever i go for an unusual shot where i was on the run or lunged at the ball or something, id make tones of errors. now i know, it was probably because i wasnt balanced properly (leaning instead of using my feet) - now those shots feel way different, and i feel more bullet proof like there isnt a shot i cant hit now

unconscious incompetence (average rec player with no lessons or hasn't seen footage of themselves hit before)
conscious incompetence (after receiving feedback or trying it out for the first time, or just unable to get it perfectly right... me with the serve still)
conscious competence (me right now on the forehand with balance - but i can easily forget to do it)
unconscious competence (these kids, Federer)

Yes of course, when your balanced perfectly and have perfect spacing you can basically swing with 100% racquet speed, and the ball will go in, it just wont go long, because the faster you swing the more pace the ball has but also the more spin it has, so it always gets pulled into the court, just that the faster the swing the harder it is for the opponent because the ball has more spin and more pace, both.

But if your spacing is bad and bad balance it doesn't matter if you swing 100% or 80% theres a high chance ur gonna miss the shot unless you slowly push it in... just an example, you are late on your forehand and you are leaning back because the ball suprizes you, these two things will make ur racquet face much more open and doesn't matter if you swing 100% or 80% the ball will fly up in the air.

 

[StringSnapper]

lmao

 

[ubercat]

IDK as long as you have the topspin going for big swing seems to have very little downside. If you hit it right you get a deep heavy ball. If you hit it wrong you often get either a very low fast ball or a big flighted topspinny Looper. These common misshits often do more damage than the correct shot

My coach sometimes Miss hits his forehand and it dives bombs onto my back hand with a lot of top and side. Friggin mare to figure out the contact point.

 

[Fintft]

So what kind of FH takeback do you do?
In this video, they talk about Thiem switiching now to Federer's take back, but I got a question:

While I agree that the smaller/medium loop is better on hard courts then the large loop, isn't there a third option, even more compact?

My coach idicated a couple of years ago to do "Thiem's older forehand technique, the tip of the racket would be pointing down the court, towards the opponent" especially to deal with fast icoming balls, implying to just start the forward swing from that position(with not much of a loop), what do you think?

Then I had another coach telling me that I still need a loop (be it smaller) and I am doing now what Fed/Nadal/Joker/Thiem are doing on the take back, with the head of the racquet poiting up.