New machine or stay the course?

[ryushen21]

I'm changing districts again which means that I will very likely be in a position to have my new school purchase a new stringing machine.

I have been using the Tourna 850 for two years and absolutely love it. No issues, it just works and works. I really don't have a reason to move on from it.

But, y'all know how it is, and when the chance to get something new and shiny comes up, you'd be foolish not to at least consider the options.

To me it really comes down to 2 options: Tourna 850 or Baiardo. The question is whether the Baiardo is really worth the extra price and does have it any added features or benefits that I don't get with the 850.

Also, keep in mind that this has to be purchased new through a retailer. So used machines are pretty much out of the question.

 

[Rabbit]

I have zero experience with either, but given the specs I think either would do a bang up job. Personally, I'd go with the Baiardo.

 

[USMC-615]

Baiardo all the way if you can set the hook on that one. If not, flip 'em to the 850 for the price difference...you know the 850 as well as anyone and still end up with a Cadillac of a machine.

 

[ryushen21]

Baiardo all the way if you can set the hook on that one. If not, flip 'em to the 850 for the price difference...you know the 850 as well as anyone and still end up with a Cadillac of a machine.

Does the Baiardo have down-press clamp bases? That is kind of a dealbreaker for me. It's the one feature I don't think I can do without.

 

[kkm]

IMHO the Baiardo is an easy choice. Forget about the down-press clamp bases, the Baiardo clamp bases are fine, and everything else being better on the Baiardo you’ll forget about the clamp base difference.

 

[ryushen21]

IMHO the Baiardo is an easy choice. Forget about the down-press clamp bases, the Baiardo clamp bases are fine, and everything else being better on the Baiardo you’ll forget about the clamp base difference.

How so? What does the Baiardo offer over the 850 that is enough to make me forget the things about the 850 that I love?

 

[kkm]

IMHO the build quality of the Baiardo is much better and worth the difference.

 

[ryushen21]

IMHO the build quality of the Baiardo is much better and worth the difference.

There are no build quality concerns with the 850. Perhaps you'd like to speak to the functionality instead? You aren't exactly making a strong argument.

 

[kkm]

There are no build quality concerns with the 850. Perhaps you'd like to speak to the functionality instead? You aren't exactly making a strong argument.

I don’t love the build quality of the 850. IMHO the Baiardo is kind of a bargain when you look at what else is out there. But the Baiardo might not be available new anymore. In that case the Baiardo L is a good deal.

I’m not that interested in making an argument, if you don’t see the value in having a Baiardo, if you’ve used the 850 and the Baiardo. Maybe @Herb has an opinion.

 

[snoflewis]

has anyone here actually regretted upgrading to a better machine?

 

[ryushen21]

I don’t love the build quality of the 850. IMHO the Baiardo is kind of a bargain when you look at what else is out there. But the Baiardo might not be available new anymore. In that case the Baiardo L is a good deal.

I’m not that interested in making an argument, if you don’t see the value in having a Baiardo, if you’ve used the 850 and the Baiardo. Maybe @Herb has an opinion.

Fair point that the Baiardo L looks to be the only one available at the moment.

But if the regular Baiardo does end up being available, it's a significant amount more than the 850.

I've strung on a Baiardo one time and wasn't blown away by it but there's a difference in using a machine once and using it regularly.
Hence my questions.

But if it's too much to ask you to give some specifics about your Baiardo love, so be it.

has anyone here actually regretted upgrading to a better machine?

I doubt that anyone has regretted upgrading.

Maybe a better way to state my question would be for those who have used both regularly, which one did you prefer more and why?

 

[Rabbit]

looping @Herb in on this one

 

[kkm]

Fair point that the Baiardo L looks to be the only one available at the moment.

But if the regular Baiardo does end up being available, it's a significant amount more than the 850.

I've strung on a Baiardo one time and wasn't blown away by it but there's a difference in using a machine once and using it regularly.
Hence my questions.

But if it's too much to ask you to give some specifics about your Baiardo love, so be it.


I doubt that anyone has regretted upgrading.

Maybe a better way to state my question would be for those who have used both regularly, which one did you prefer more and why?

I like the towers and puller of the Baiardo a lot more. TBH I don’t use the BEST ergonomic stuff on the Baiardo. I used the Baiardo regularly.

 

[dr325i]

TE3600

 

[Herb]

I am not promoting either machine over the other. I have never used the Tourna 850, but briefly owned a Tourna 700-es. Everything comes down to what you prefer, and what you consider important. There are too many variables that we do not know to make any informed recommendation to you. We can only recommend based on what we know of ourselves. Ask yourself some questions.

How fast can you string a racquet?
Is this your primary job?
How many racquets per day do you think you will average?
What is the max number you can string in a day?
What is the max number you think you will get in a day?
What features do you like?
What are features you do not like?
What is your free time worth?

If you are a 30–45-minute person, the machine may not matter. If you are a 15–25-minute person machine might matter. If you are stringing a couple of racquets per day the machine really doesn't matter much. If you are 10 plus per day, it might. If your busiest day is 5 racquets machine means less than it does if you get 50. Do gravity release clamps outweigh ergonomics?

This is what has shaped my decisions over time. I have a full-time job. I do not start stringing until typically after 6 pm. During my peak seasons I average 7-15 per day, My peak days are 25-40. (I did have a 52 racquet day in April, but that is rare). On a Baiardo I can average 12.5 minutes per racquet. On the Tourna I was running closer to 20 just because it pulls so much slower. I do not want to string until 2-3 in the morning and have to be at work at 7am. I use the ergonomic features, compression socks, and whatever else I can to save my back and legs when stringing for 5 plus hours straight. I like to keep the machine clean, and I check calibration often. You cannot remove the base clamps on the Tourna to clean, and the calibration is not as easy as the Baiardo. I like being able to set multiple tensions for mains and crosses. When you do multiples for the same player it is nice to not have to remember to change tension each time. I like to have a little time to relax before I go to bed, so I want to get them done as fast and efficiently as possible. The Tourna did not allow that. I am not saying that either machine is better than the other, but for my needs and stringing style the Baiardo is the machine that I have gravitated towards.

 

[ryushen21]

I am not promoting either machine over the other. I have never used the Tourna 850, but briefly owned a Tourna 700-es. Everything comes down to what you prefer, and what you consider important. There are too many variables that we do not know to make any informed recommendation to you. We can only recommend based on what we know of ourselves. Ask yourself some questions.

How fast can you string a racquet?
Is this your primary job?
How many racquets per day do you think you will average?
What is the max number you can string in a day?
What is the max number you think you will get in a day?
What features do you like?
What are features you do not like?
What is your free time worth?

If you are a 30–45-minute person, the machine may not matter. If you are a 15–25-minute person machine might matter. If you are stringing a couple of racquets per day the machine really doesn't matter much. If you are 10 plus per day, it might. If your busiest day is 5 racquets machine means less than it does if you get 50. Do gravity release clamps outweigh ergonomics?

This is what has shaped my decisions over time. I have a full-time job. I do not start stringing until typically after 6 pm. During my peak seasons I average 7-15 per day, My peak days are 25-40. (I did have a 52 racquet day in April, but that is rare). On a Baiardo I can average 12.5 minutes per racquet. On the Tourna I was running closer to 20 just because it pulls so much slower. I do not want to string until 2-3 in the morning and have to be at work at 7am. I use the ergonomic features, compression socks, and whatever else I can to save my back and legs when stringing for 5 plus hours straight. I like to keep the machine clean, and I check calibration often. You cannot remove the base clamps on the Tourna to clean, and the calibration is not as easy as the Baiardo. I like being able to set multiple tensions for mains and crosses. When you do multiples for the same player it is nice to not have to remember to change tension each time. I like to have a little time to relax before I go to bed, so I want to get them done as fast and efficiently as possible. The Tourna did not allow that. I am not saying that either machine is better than the other, but for my needs and stringing style the Baiardo is the machine that I have gravitated towards.

Which ergonomic features are referring to? Is there more beyond the tilt function?

I usually am around 20-25 minutes per racquet. The presets and profiles are something I didn't consider. I can switch easily on the 850 but there are not set profiles.

EDIT: It's not so much the gravity-release part of the clamp bases but the press-down aspect. Not having to do that turning motion to lock the clamp base has been huge for my wrists.

 

[Wes]

Which ergonomic features are referring to?

Regarding the Baiardo, read up on Wilson's "B.E.S.T. technology".

 

[kkm]

Which ergonomic features are referring to? Is there more beyond the tilt function?

I usually am around 20-25 minutes per racquet. The presets and profiles are something I didn't consider. I can switch easily on the 850 but there are not set profiles.

EDIT: It's not so much the gravity-release part of the clamp bases but the press-down aspect. Not having to do that turning motion to lock the clamp base has been huge for my wrists.

If you don’t want to have to turn to lock the clamp base, look at the Babolat Evolution - it’s press-down.

 

[ErrorMachine]

Is there a way to test drive a machine? Sounds like you really enjoy your machine and resisting a new one. Perhaps the new machine will only provide a marginal benefit and the money can be allocated elsewhere?

 

[ryushen21]

Is there a way to test drive a machine? Sounds like you really enjoy your machine and resisting a new one. Perhaps the new machine will only provide a marginal benefit and the money can be allocated elsewhere?

That is kind of the crux of the situation. I love the 850. I also know how well-loved the Baiardo is but I do question if it is worth the additional cost.

I wish there were some way for me to test drive the Baiardo for a week or so to really go through everything with it. If my old stringer were here, I definitely could but he moved a few years ago.

 

[Irvin]

That is kind of the crux of the situation. I love the 850. I also know how well-loved the Baiardo is but I do question if it is worth the additional cost.

I wish there were some way for me to test drive the Baiardo for a week or so to really go through everything with it. If my old stringer were here, I definitely could but he moved a few years ago.

Take a week long vacation and see if you can get a job stringing at a shop that uses a Baiardo. Just make sure to let the new shop know what you’re doing.

EDIT: Or get a part time gig in the evenings.

 

[Jerry Seinfeld]

I have several machines. The Baiardo is my least favorite. Support is virtually non existent. Has electronic issues all the time. I'd focus on support and reliability when making a decision.

 

[kkm]

I have several machines. The Baiardo is my least favorite. Support is virtually non existent. Has electronic issues all the time. I'd focus on support and reliability when making a decision.

Support is super-important. Isn’t Tennis Machines still the service center for Baiardos sold in the U.S.?

 

[Irvin]

I believe TennisMachines service all machines.

 

[kkm]

I believe TennisMachines service all machines.

I didn’t mean that.

I meant: TM had the contract from Wilson for Baiardo warranty service, and wondered if that’s not the case anymore.

 

[USMC-615]

I have several machines. The Baiardo is my least favorite. Support is virtually non existent. Has electronic issues all the time. I'd focus on support and reliability when making a decision.

I don't think I've read a whole lot over the last few years of being in here at least, about 'electronic issues' associated with the Baiardo...certainly not to say they don't exist. Can you elaborate on these specific issues? That would be a royal PITA to have to dismantle, box up and send a machine of that weight anywhere...much less more than once over a one, two, three year, etc period. And of course the owner gets to eat every penny of the shipping I'm sure.

 

[kkm]

I don't think I've read a whole lot over the last few years of being in here at least, about 'electronic issues' associated with the Baiardo...certainly not to say they don't exist. Can you elaborate on these specific issues? That would be a royal PITA to have to dismantle, box up and send a machine of that weight anywhere...much less more than once over a one, two, three year, etc period. And of course the owner gets to eat every penny of the shipping I'm sure.

Thank goodness that most of the Baiardo’s parts can be swapped out pretty easily and Wilson made YouTube videos for those.

 

[colan5934]

Support is super-important. Isn’t Tennis Machines still the service center for Baiardos sold in the U.S.?

Yes, they are. JC is still doing a great job as always.

 

[colan5934]

Which ergonomic features are referring to? Is there more beyond the tilt function?

I usually am around 20-25 minutes per racquet. The presets and profiles are something I didn't consider. I can switch easily on the 850 but there are not set profiles.

EDIT: It's not so much the gravity-release part of the clamp bases but the press-down aspect. Not having to do that turning motion to lock the clamp base has been huge for my wrists.

I have not used the 850 so cannot compare; however, here are my impressions of the Baiardo relative to your concerns:

I used the Baiardo exclusively for 5+ years. The height adjustment combined with the tilt made stringing multiple racquets in a row much easier on my body. If you're doing a high volume and/or have issues related to the posture stringing puts you in, it's worth a look. It's nice working at whatever height you desire too - I was able to string faster on Baiardos than anything else just because I can put the racquet in a place where I can move my hands quicker.

The base locking mechanism does turn, but it's more of a pivot. You can just wrap two fingers around it and pull toward the center to lock - no twisting required like with some cheaper machines - and it moves with minimal resistance. You can angle the bases any which way that enables you to eliminate your wrist from the equation.

Bonus points because the Baiardo calibrates itself, has great support from Tennis Machines, and holds its value over time. If I were looking to upgrade from my Neos for home stringing, it would be at the top of the list. It does not appear to be planned for more inventory yet, though. I am told they are all out of stock at Wilson and none are expected for the next scheduled future order date. That may change around US Open time, though. There was a period where the US Open machines were used at the event and then sold at wholesale cost, but I do not know if that will happen again.

 

[dr325i]

I don't think I've read a whole lot over the last few years of being in here at least, about 'electronic issues' associated with the Baiardo...certainly not to say they don't exist. Can you elaborate on these specific issues? That would be a royal PITA to have to dismantle, box up and send a machine of that weight anywhere...much less more than once over a one, two, three year, etc period. And of course the owner gets to eat every penny of the shipping I'm sure.

That, again, is the advantage of the TE3600 over Baiardo -- it is modular. If anything happens, you just pull out the whole electronics board right off the machine and ship it in a small box to get serviced or easily repaired and upgraded. I still believe that the 3600 is a step ahead of the rest (I used it only a few times in KB but is on another lever from my beloved Sensor)

 

[Irvin]

One feature the Baiardo has over the Tourna is you can select different knot tensions.

 

[ryushen21]

Is it true that the Baiardo isn't readily available for sale? That may be the end of the discussion right there.

 

[dr325i]

Is it true that the Baiardo isn't readily available for sale? That may be the end of the discussion right there.

I believe most of them are long lead times, including Baiardo, Ghost 2, TE-3600...

 

[gino]

FWIW my local stringer still uses a Babolat Star 5 over his Wilson Baiardo, has had a lot of issues with it

 

[kkm]

Most of the machines are pretty modular - the Dunlop 3.0, Head TE-3600, Tecnifibre X-Cord, Yonex Precision 8.0, Yonex Precision 9.0. On these the whole tension head comes off.

On the Babolat Evolution and Wilson Baiardo stuff isn’t insanely tough to fix, and they made videos showing how to fix stuff. Forget about service on the Yonex machines.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Most of the machines are pretty modular - the Dunlop 3.0, Head TE-3600, Tecnifibre X-Cord, Yonex Precision 8.0, Yonex Precision 9.0. On these the whole tension head comes off.

On the Babolat Evolution and Wilson Baiardo stuff isn’t insanely tough to fix, and they made videos showing how to fix stuff. Forget about service on the Yonex machines.

Is there a huge difference w between the Dunlop 2.0 and head te 3600 ? When I look at the manual sent from Dunlop - outside the usb port and .1 vs. .5 lb increments. Seems like the same machine ? Maybe Dunlop is a bit wider.
.

 

[kkm]

Is there a huge difference w between the Dunlop 2.0 and head te 3600 ? When I look at the manual sent from Dunlop - outside the usb port and .1 vs. .5 lb increments. Seems like the same machine ? Maybe Dunlop is a bit wider.
.

They’re both from Exthree. The Dunlop is super-wide.

 

[kblades]

I’ve been pretty happy with my Baiardo L, but found it very frustrating recently when I attempted to track down a set of rails and the gravity release bases from the regular Baiardo in order to upgrade mine. I spent over a week sending emails back and forth between Wilson and JC.

First of all, the general Wilson customer service won’t answer questions about the stringing machines, they sent me to JC. JC doesn’t stock the parts, he suggested I reach back out to Wilson because he thought they could get them before he could. So Wilson ended up passing me off to another customer service team that services their B2B site. That team basically said they only provide support and sell parts to their dealer network. So not only did they not have them in stock either, but even if they did they refused to sell them to me because I’m not a pro shop.

I’ll be honest, this experience has made me question if I made the right decision. One of the deciding factors in buying this machine was that I was under the impression parts and service would be superior given how long they’ve been in production and sold by one of the largest retailers. I think it’s absurd they’ll sell these machines to the general public, but then turn around and refuse to offer any support or make parts available for them.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

I’ve been pretty happy with my Baiardo L, but found it very frustrating recently when I attempted to track down a set of rails and the push down bases from the regular Baiardo in order to upgrade mine. I spent over a week sending emails back and forth between Wilson and JC.

First of all, the general Wilson customer service won’t answer questions about the stringing machines, they sent me to JC. JC doesn’t stock the parts, he suggested I reach back out to Wilson because he thought they could get them before he could. So Wilson ended up passing me off to another customer service team that services their B2B site. That team basically said they only provide support and sell parts to their dealer network. So not only did they not have them in stock either, but even if they did they refused to sell them to me because I’m not a pro shop.

I’ll be honest, this experience has made me question if I made the right decision. One of the deciding factors in buying this machine was that I was under the impression parts and service would be superior given how long they’ve been in production and sold by one of the largest retailers. I think it’s absurd they’ll sell these machines to the general public, but then turn around and refuse to offer any support or make parts available for them.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this
I called Wilson to inquire about the warranty on the baiardo L and couldn’t get through and when I did couldn’t get an answer. They made it easier for me not to think about it.

 

[Standupnfall]

There are no build quality concerns with the 850. Perhaps you'd like to speak to the functionality instead? You aren't exactly making a strong argument.

I don't think the quality and stringing experience on the Baiardo needs a strong argument. If you have not tried one that is your next step before making the decision.
I am certain the 850 is also a great machine but there is a reason the Baiardo is known to be a top performer.

If you want to know about feature comparison; does the 850 have auto-height and Auto tilt?

 

[ryushen21]

I don't think the quality and stringing experience on the Baiardo needs a strong argument. If you have not tried one that is your next step before making the decision.
I am certain the 850 is also a great machine but there is a reason the Baiardo is known to be a top performer.

If you want to know about feature comparison; does the 850 have auto-height and Auto tilt?

The 850 has electronic height adjustment but not auto and it does not have any tilt function.

I admit the tilt function is one I've wondered about and how much it adds to the stringing experience and efficiency.

 

[Standupnfall]

The 850 has electronic height adjustment but not auto and it does not have any tilt function.

I admit the tilt function is one I've wondered about and how much it adds to the stringing experience and efficiency.

Nice, I did not know the 850 had electronic height. Since I got my 2 Baiardos I kinda forgot about a lot of other machines.

 

[ryushen21]

I'm looking at right around an $1100 difference between the 850 and the Baiardo. That's assuming the Baiardo is available when I get to order at the beginning of July.

I'm no closer to a decision. Every time I think I've decided, I change my mind.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

I'm looking at right around an $1100 difference between the 850 and the Baiardo. That's assuming the Baiardo is available when I get to order at the beginning of July.

I'm no closer to a decision. Every time I think I've decided, I change my mind.

I’m actually the same. Very indecisive rigjt now.

 

[ryushen21]

I just watched a few videos of @Herb doing his thing on the Baiardo and then a few videos comparing the the Baiardo and the Baiardo L.

Looking at how the Baiardo functions, I don't see any reason I should exclude it from consideration. It looks to have a lot of features I would enjoy even though it lacks some that I love on the 850.

The big questions is going to be pricing and availability and the 850 may be more readily available when I get ready to order in a few weeks.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Most of the machines are pretty modular - the Dunlop 3.0, Head TE-3600, Tecnifibre X-Cord, Yonex Precision 8.0, Yonex Precision 9.0. On these the whole tension head comes off.

On the Babolat Evolution and Wilson Baiardo stuff isn’t insanely tough to fix, and they made videos showing how to fix stuff. Forget about service on the Yonex machines.

@kkm - actually wanted to pick your brain on a few machines and brands serviced/Customer service quality. But couldn’t direct message you.

Outside of yonex and seems babolat - are most of these machines manageable to service or get parts- if needed?

 

[kkm]

@kkm - actually wanted to pick your brain on a few machines and brands serviced/Customer service quality. But couldn’t direct message you.

Outside of yonex and seems babolat - are most of these machines manageable to service or get parts- if needed?

Babolat would take good care of you. You’d also be fine with Tecnifibre - they’re finally stocking replacement parts locally.
I don’t know about Dunlop or Head service and parts. You might want to look at the nicer Gamma electronic machines.

 

[mill]

Both are manufactured in Taiwan,
The Wilson one by an unnamed manufacturer in Taiwan that makes Wilson, Gamma and 99% sure the new TF machine among others.
The Tourna machine is manufactured by Xpider along with various other local brands like Tennisman in Europe.

All manufacturers can put out lemons at times and no one is immune to manufacturing defects and mistakes. However where long-term build quality is concerned...there's probably a reason certain companies pass the vetting process of multiple publicly traded companies and others don't. Like all machines, components wear and eventually break, so service is worth considering. The unfortunate consequence of large corporations is often simple questions or solutions become way too complicated.

It seems your mind is already set. The Baiardo is a different level of machine, regardless of if that holds any real world value for you. The Baiardo is built mostly of metal, including the entire housing(top and bottom including the connection to the table), the entire turn table(top and bottom), the floor plate is an entire polished metal casting. Last I checked Tourna is covered in flimsy vacuum formed plastics. The Baiardo has a touch screen, it is old tech now but it was pretty cutting edge 15 years ago. The tourna has a "cheap display panel" with integrated buttons, if you are familiar with string machines, these will wear through within a few years of extensive use. I could go on but don't feel it is necessary. This is like comparing a toyota86 to a Porsche 718 IMHO. They both have 4 cylinders and handle beautifully on twisty windy roads but that's about where the similarities end. If we exclude the possibility of getting a lemon, which could happen with any machine honestly, would I really give up the 718 for an 86 if someone else was paying for it?

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Babolat would take good care of you. You’d also be fine with Tecnifibre - they’re finally stocking replacement parts locally.
I don’t know about Dunlop or Head service and parts. You might want to look at the nicer Gamma electronic machines.

@kkm one more question as I have an opportunity for an ergo one. Any experience with TF on US support for this machine? Solid deal with less than 600 rackets on it. But seeing if it’s only the Xcord they’re supporting with parts domestically.

 

[kkm]

@kkm one more question as I have an opportunity for an ergo one. Any experience with TF on US support for this machine? Solid deal with less than 600 rackets on it. But seeing if it’s only the Xcord they’re supporting with parts domestically.

AFAIK they don’t have parts for the Ergo One domestically, but I’d contact Tecnifibre USA to check. (888) 301-7878