Bud
Bionic Poster
I've also seen Ultra 2 racquets with the same style PWS as the Pro Staff AND the PWS that was on the original Ultra (metal weight that looked like it was nailed on).
"NEW" Pro Staff 6.0 85 St. Vincent (56kers beware - lots of pics)
- Thread starter Jack & Coke
- Start date
I've also seen Ultra 2 racquets with the same style PWS as the Pro Staff AND the PWS that was on the original Ultra (metal weight that looked like it was nailed on).
Jack & Coke
Professional
Update...
Item number: 200221495503
just sold to someone in Italy for..
Item number: 200221495503
just sold to someone in Italy for..
$995.00
Jack & Coke
Professional
Lendl and Federer Fan
Hall of Fame
Item number: 200221495503
just sold to someone in Italy for..
$995.00
How do you know he is from Italy? :wink:
Lendl and Federer Fan
Hall of Fame
I was watching this auction all the way. 
Jack & Coke
Professional
Come on now.. you can figure it out can't you?
You see where it says "Winning bidder: 19giacomo82"?
Well my guess is that this person is 26 years old and likes Puccini.
No really, if you just click on the winning bidder's name, you'll see his location is in Italy, and that most of his feedback as a buyer is written in Italian.
Lendl and Federer Fan
Hall of Fame
Come on now.. you can figure it out can't you?
You see where it says "Winning bidder: 19giacomo82"?
Well my guess is that this person is 26 years old and likes Puccini.
No really, if you just click on the winning bidder's name, you'll see his location is in Italy, and that most of his feedback as a buyer is written in Italian.
Thanks, I learn something today.
vincent_tennis
Professional
do u ahve anymore? 
Lendl and Federer Fan
Hall of Fame
do u ahve anymore?
I believe him/her! :wink:
Lendl and Federer Fan
Hall of Fame
He/she is from Redondo Beach. We should play some time.
.
racquetfreak
Semi-Pro
As I said in the table, the info presented was to the best of my knowledge.
Another amendment would be the addition of three letter codes beginning with Q to the St Vincent list.
Oh yeah, if you think 1K is too much for a new St Vincent; anew China ($129 on TW before production ceased) soldon bigbay (item 220228773974) for $510 plus shipping to a US buyer. The buyer, oddly enough, had the alias 510brianb.
gsquicksilver
Semi-Pro
bunch of dumb@sses for spending that much money on a racquet and driving up the prices for people who actually want to buy those frames to play with them.
Jack & Coke
Professional
Key word here..
***MINT***
Are your SV's in mint condition (i.e. never strung, never used, no scratches, no defects, no cracks, etc.)?
In order for you to understand why the prices are so high, you have to first be able to grasp the concept of "MINT CONDITION" and rarity with regards to how collectors see the world.
Also, why do you call them suckers?
Who knows.. maybe they're so rich, that throwing around $995 to them is like buying a cup of coffee for you and me.
***MINT***
Are your SV's in mint condition (i.e. never strung, never used, no scratches, no defects, no cracks, etc.)?
In order for you to understand why the prices are so high, you have to first be able to grasp the concept of "MINT CONDITION" and rarity with regards to how collectors see the world.
Also, why do you call them suckers?
Who knows.. maybe they're so rich, that throwing around $995 to them is like buying a cup of coffee for you and me.
hrstrat57
Hall of Fame
Agree 100%
Same thing happened with Fender guitars....old teles and strats mostly. The creme de la creme of country and rock n roll is hangin on a wall somewhere....probably never to be played again.....
Not what Leo Fender had in mind I don't think.
I got an sv ps85 and I got a 57 strat.....ain't never gonna hang on no wall!!!!
I wish I still had my 59 tele, 64 jazz bass, 66 gibson 335, you get the picture...sold off to pay bills or expenses at the time.....now I can't afford to replace.
Stinks.
Jack & Coke
Professional
Yeah but I doubt you'll be bashing your 57 strat into the ground while doing low slice backhands or stab vollies.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
ThA_Azn_DeViL
Semi-Pro
Why spend $1000 dollars on one racquet, when you can have 6-7 k90's?
hrstrat57
Hall of Fame
Yeah but I doubt you'll be bashing your 57 strat into the ground while doing low slice backhands or stab vollies.
My strat is actually a lot more beat up than the racquet....
just as it should be right?
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Because anyone could walk into any tennis store at the present moment and buy a brand new k90.
meowmix
Hall of Fame
It's also a pretty darn good investment. You can spend 1000 bucks on one today, store it somehwere where it won't get damaged, and sell it 20 years down the road for 10,000 (no exaggeration, by that time, it'll be so rare in mint condition). Great way to earn 9900% interest.
Jack & Coke
Professional
My strat is actually a lot more beat up than the racquet....
just as it should be right?
Yeah, only if you want to use it.. :-?
Do you see the difference?
Come on man, it's not too difficult to figure out:
GENERAL USE
vs.
INVESTMENT & COLLECTION
vs.
INVESTMENT & COLLECTION
If you can figure out how to separate the two concepts, you just might "get it".
Good luck!
Lendl and Federer Fan
Hall of Fame
obnoxious2
Semi-Pro
Somebody obviously needs to take a FINANCE CLASS.
Lendl and Federer Fan
Hall of Fame
In 50 years, the St. Vincent PS85 will worth as much as a woodie today, because nobody'll know who Pistol Pete is?
VGP
Legend
^^^^ please don't lump all woodies together. Some are very desirable, and others are fit for the fireplace.
It could go either way. It depends on the demand in the future.
It's not just about rarity, demand drives collectability more than rarity in most cases.
Right now, the Hazell Streamline is a highly collectable racket. Not because any one tennis player used it, more because of its rarity and unusual design.
It all depends on what collectors in the future are looking for.
It could go either way. It depends on the demand in the future.
It's not just about rarity, demand drives collectability more than rarity in most cases.
Right now, the Hazell Streamline is a highly collectable racket. Not because any one tennis player used it, more because of its rarity and unusual design.
It all depends on what collectors in the future are looking for.
Bud
Bionic Poster
Somone should write a comprehensive guide to Wilson PS SV racquets. It seems they really aren't that rare and come in many different configurations.
VGP
Legend
Search the forum. There's been a lot of discussion on the things that classify SVs.....and all PS85s for that matter.
And no, they're not that rare since there are several up on e-bay every day. But they are desirable as you can see by the prices they fetch. What is rare are the ones that have been discussed in this thread. The ones that have never been strung, with case and hang tags.
I the buyer (and other bidders) that bought geesechops' frame for $510 must have thought the same for the current 6.0 up for sale.
I've got a couple of latest 6.0s in unused condition, case, plastic on handle, frame card, never strung in 4 1/4 grip......makes me wonder what to do with them. I wonder if part of the appeal of the auction was the 4 3/8 grip since that's the gripsize Federer used.
I guess I feel a bit of regret in stringing up two 6.0s with 4 3/8 grips from unused condition like in the auction.....but I wanted to play with them. I did that just last fall.
I hate to think that selling a couple of rackets could help me get a new American Standard Strat.....or fund some home improvement projects.
And no, they're not that rare since there are several up on e-bay every day. But they are desirable as you can see by the prices they fetch. What is rare are the ones that have been discussed in this thread. The ones that have never been strung, with case and hang tags.
I the buyer (and other bidders) that bought geesechops' frame for $510 must have thought the same for the current 6.0 up for sale.
I've got a couple of latest 6.0s in unused condition, case, plastic on handle, frame card, never strung in 4 1/4 grip......makes me wonder what to do with them. I wonder if part of the appeal of the auction was the 4 3/8 grip since that's the gripsize Federer used.
I guess I feel a bit of regret in stringing up two 6.0s with 4 3/8 grips from unused condition like in the auction.....but I wanted to play with them. I did that just last fall.
I hate to think that selling a couple of rackets could help me get a new American Standard Strat.....or fund some home improvement projects.
Which China PS6.0 85 did Federer use? (9, 10 or 11?)
These rackets are undoubtedly THE most popular non-wood players frames ever.
The Pro Staff 85 has been used by some of all-time great tennis pros including Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Stefan Edberg and Pete Sampras.
Sampras used this racket throughout his professional career refusing all efforts by Wilson to get him to use newer models or at least make his racket look like a newer model through use of a paintjob on it.
Federer used this racket as well but it was disguised (paintjob) as a newer model.
These rackets were originally manufactured at Wilson's River Grove plant near Chicago.
In an effort to cut down on production costs, Wilson moved production to a new facility on St. Vincent Island in the West Indies.
Rackets made at this facility have been assigned mystical qualities by many players mainly because these were the only that Sampras would use.
It is unlikely that there is much difference in quality between the Chicago and St. Vincent versions other than the addition of bumper guards to the later St Vincent rackets.
In the early 90s, Wilson again moved production; this time to China, again undoubtedly to cut costs.
The early China versions had problems with quality control. Later versions are of higher quality but purists are mot convinced that they measure up to the Chicago or Saint Vincent rackets.
Below is a table showing, to the best of my knowledge, the different versions of the Pro Staff Midsize rackets and their distinguishing characteristics (also see legend below the table):
Chronological order: order in which model was manufactured with respect to time
Legend for the Table above
"name"
PS = PRO STAFF
6.0 = PRO STAFF 6.0
"code location"
refers to the bottom or top of "W" on buttcap
"MIDSIZE"
written on outer edges of throat
x2 = writte on both sides
x1 = appears only on one side
85 = MIDSIZE 85
"origin"
SV = Saint Vincent Island, West Indies
geesechops
Semi-Pro
I guess I've set some kind of standard for late (as in your could of bought this from TW like a year or two ago) Pro Staff 6.0 85 CHINA's. Check this one out. 18024289979 I don't think it will sell because it has the Asian grip sticker, IF the appeal out there right now is the Federer model. Although Federer played with the white but cap CHINA too.
sorry can someone help me out...
I intend to buy a used ps85 from the aution site in my country(taiwan).
the stick i'm buying has is matt, code GAX loacted on the bottom of "W"(white bottom cap), not sure if it's mid size 85 is written on 1 or 2 sides(asked him..waiting for reply), but I do not really know what is meant by the red or gray primer(what is it and where is it located). stated that it is in 8/10 condition. asking for us150(equviliant), so I'm not sure if i should go for it?
anyone, any comments? tks.
I intend to buy a used ps85 from the aution site in my country(taiwan).
the stick i'm buying has is matt, code GAX loacted on the bottom of "W"(white bottom cap), not sure if it's mid size 85 is written on 1 or 2 sides(asked him..waiting for reply), but I do not really know what is meant by the red or gray primer(what is it and where is it located). stated that it is in 8/10 condition. asking for us150(equviliant), so I'm not sure if i should go for it?
anyone, any comments? tks.
hey guys, i just wanted to ask, although i m not sure anyone comes to this thread since the last post is in 2008, if somebody could help me out with finding out if i just bought a fake taiwan or not the other day. there are not to many things making me wonder.
fisrt of all, what is ok about it is that it has the hologram sticker that can go off and has the "not for resale if hologram missing" (i've seen cases in fakes where the hologram doesn't go off). then, it has everything in place ( i mean the writing and stuff, i compared it to a lot of pics of taiwan i've seen online). the weight is where it should be although the balance is at around 31 cm (tennis wiki sais the taiwanese should be at 33.2). it is not so matte, which is ok, it has a code on the buttcap, above the W ( SGP, but it's a bit smaller that others that i've seen on the internet, it has R registered where it should have (on the buttcap, at graphite/kevlar and TM at the SYN gut suggestion inside the throat). the grommet has the 22D 1615 code on it, which i also think is ok but the things that bother me are the fact that the bumper guard slightly comes like 0.3 cm above the grommet, at 11, and 2 o'clock, where they meet, and the other thing is that it doesnt have the foam underneath the leather grip (which also looks like a genuine fairway grip-everything written ok, gold writing, good feel, colour, etc), it has a plastic handle. so that's the maaajor problem i've been having. did the taiwanese had yellow foam or plastic handles. cuz i kinda worry, since this is the only detail that doest fit..
thanks
fisrt of all, what is ok about it is that it has the hologram sticker that can go off and has the "not for resale if hologram missing" (i've seen cases in fakes where the hologram doesn't go off). then, it has everything in place ( i mean the writing and stuff, i compared it to a lot of pics of taiwan i've seen online). the weight is where it should be although the balance is at around 31 cm (tennis wiki sais the taiwanese should be at 33.2). it is not so matte, which is ok, it has a code on the buttcap, above the W ( SGP, but it's a bit smaller that others that i've seen on the internet, it has R registered where it should have (on the buttcap, at graphite/kevlar and TM at the SYN gut suggestion inside the throat). the grommet has the 22D 1615 code on it, which i also think is ok but the things that bother me are the fact that the bumper guard slightly comes like 0.3 cm above the grommet, at 11, and 2 o'clock, where they meet, and the other thing is that it doesnt have the foam underneath the leather grip (which also looks like a genuine fairway grip-everything written ok, gold writing, good feel, colour, etc), it has a plastic handle. so that's the maaajor problem i've been having. did the taiwanese had yellow foam or plastic handles. cuz i kinda worry, since this is the only detail that doest fit..
thanks
Bringing this thread back to life....
Okay, who here amongst us was the lucky buyer?
Check out what just sold on the bay: 200632665609
Starting price of $299 but sold for $550. Not bad, even though NO plastic on the grip. Still pretty good deal considering what the the market has been paying. I don't think the seller knew what had tbe quite honest.
My questions: How fast do you think this will be up for resale and how high will the markup be?
Enjoy the pics.
Okay, who here amongst us was the lucky buyer?
Check out what just sold on the bay: 200632665609
Starting price of $299 but sold for $550. Not bad, even though NO plastic on the grip. Still pretty good deal considering what the the market has been paying. I don't think the seller knew what had tbe quite honest.
My questions: How fast do you think this will be up for resale and how high will the markup be?
Enjoy the pics.
To some collectors, it is THE holy grail of all collectibles if new, with tags, and in plastic. Very rare find with all the original accoutrement.
Rare collectible = big money.
ssonosk
Semi-Pro
I know it's worth a lot, but what made it that way?
was there a limited run at st vince?
Here’s a little background regarding why the SV is regarded as legendary:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/60/StVincent.html
Here’s a great PS85 fan page started by VGP that also provides great insight:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=240551&highlight=why+vincent+legendary
Bringing this thread back to life....
Okay, who here amongst us was the lucky buyer?
Check out what just sold on the bay: 200632665609
Starting price of $299 but sold for $550. Not bad, even though NO plastic on the grip. Still pretty good deal considering what the the market has been paying. I don't think the seller knew what had tbe quite honest.
My questions: How fast do you think this will be up for resale and how high will the markup be?
Enjoy the pics.
I just noticed something interesting...this looks to be a late SV. But where is that Wilson hang tag that is so synonymous with the late SV?
VGP
Legend
In this case, no.
The production run of the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize from St. Vincent was probably the highest volume. Likely moreso than Belgium, US, Taiwan, and China.
It just coincided with the height of the racquet's popularity amongst pros (not just Sampras) and recreational players.
Sampras insisting on using St. Vincent frames for his whole career adds to the mystique.
But....new, unused frames are harder to come by in the open market. Especially with hang tags, plastic on handle, etc.
Maybe there's a stash at Bosworth or P1?
Thanks, footfault for reviving this thread....
VGP
Legend
I still don't get what makes them cost so much? Because of an accidental 18mm beam?
I don't know.
....and this is coming from a guy that absolutely loves this frame.
They do play great and there is something different about them, but it's like Fender Stratocasters and Barbie dolls. The St. Vincent Pro Staff Midsize just has the right combo that collectors and player/collectors want.
Rekindling a joyous part of my youth has something to do with.
Tough question.
Speaking to just the K90, the K90 IMO is destined to be a classic.
In some circles, the actual retail version is believed to be the version Federer used underneath various paintjobs since 2002. I could go on and on with the arguments that proves Federer used this frame...but frankly, I don't have the inclination to start any online battles. But I have to say, one racket used to claim 16 GS titles has to speak for itself in terms of collectibility.
VGP
Legend
I don't know.
I've started and read threads about what people will consider a future "classic."
If you go by "pro" usage, the k90/BLX90 from Federer has potential, but there is constant debate on what Federer actually uses as at least with the BLX90 and his pre-k90 cosmetics there are clear cosmetic and structural differences to the retail versions. For Nadal, he does stick by the Babolat APD original, but he adopts the current cosmetic on Babolat's 3 year cycle.
The original Babolat Pure Drive has potential because in the late-90s/early 2000s it was popular among pros and recreational players. To some extent it does still happen....
Apart from some notable examples, there is just too much product out there to really define an "era" for gear.
Back in the early-mid 80s, even though you had a great proliferation of non-wood graphite composites, certain frames became synonymous with the time, the Dunlop Max 200g, the Head Prestige Classic, the Prince Original Graphite 90/110, the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize. You saw them on the news, in print, at the local courts......plus the looks of the frames were very similar for longer than 3 years.....more like 8-10+. That's long enough to cement their images in the minds of a generation.
I've started and read threads about what people will consider a future "classic."
If you go by "pro" usage, the k90/BLX90 from Federer has potential, but there is constant debate on what Federer actually uses as at least with the BLX90 and his pre-k90 cosmetics there are clear cosmetic and structural differences to the retail versions. For Nadal, he does stick by the Babolat APD original, but he adopts the current cosmetic on Babolat's 3 year cycle.
The original Babolat Pure Drive has potential because in the late-90s/early 2000s it was popular among pros and recreational players. To some extent it does still happen....
Apart from some notable examples, there is just too much product out there to really define an "era" for gear.
Back in the early-mid 80s, even though you had a great proliferation of non-wood graphite composites, certain frames became synonymous with the time, the Dunlop Max 200g, the Head Prestige Classic, the Prince Original Graphite 90/110, the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize. You saw them on the news, in print, at the local courts......plus the looks of the frames were very similar for longer than 3 years.....more like 8-10+. That's long enough to cement their images in the minds of a generation.
VGP, you touch upon a good point.
I truly believe that today’s top players have a lot of financial incentive to be a marketing machine for their respective manufacturers. I think many know it’s not a well kept secret that Nadal, Federer, et al. use various paintjobs over their actual preferred match racket. They change paintjobs to promote a new “technology” / racket line all in the name of money.
That said, what’s of interest to me is not the practice of paintjobs, but what racket is actually underneath those paintjobs.
And going back to the K90, there is heated debate concerning whether the retail K90 was the true frame used by Federer to claim all those GS.
For those that believe the K90 is the actual frame, then yes, the K90 is a bonafide classic and will be a collectible in the future.
For those that don’t believe, well, you get the point.
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