New racquet, new pain?

[aminadream]

About a month ago, I switched racquets. At the same time, I switched string setups.

The fact that I made two changes is making it difficult to decipher what is causing my new wrist pain (inside of wrist).

Some people say it's likely the strings — I changed to a full poly setup, which is known to be hard on the arm. (Tension adjusted for poly string.)

Other people say it's likely the balance of the new racquet — 2 points less head light than my old. Weight and composition may be a factor too.

So I've begun some testing. First, I went back to my original string setup, a hybrid of poly mains and syn gut crosses. I still have pain.

My next test is to go back to my old racquet for a few weeks to see if that's the issue.

But while I'm doing these tests, I thought I'd reach out to this great community and see what thoughts you have to add.

Old racquet:
Dunlop Hotmelt 300G

New racquet:
Wilson Blade 98s (18x16) CV

Specs of old vs new racquet here: https://ibb.co/hLz5BF

What do you think is the primary cause?

 

[CosmosMpower]

What was your previous string type before? If you go from a soft multi to a full bed of poly even at lower tension I can see that causing some pain depending on the poly. The Blade CV is supposed to be pretty muted and comfortable

 

[gino]

About a month ago, I switched racquets. At the same time, I switched string setups.

The fact that I made two changes is making it difficult to decipher what is causing my new wrist pain (inside of wrist).

Some people say it's likely the strings — I changed to a full poly setup, which is known to be hard on the arm. (Tension adjusted for poly string.)

Other people say it's likely the balance of the new racquet — 2 points less head light than my old. Weight and composition may be a factor too.

So I've begun some testing. First, I went back to my original string setup, a hybrid of poly mains and syn gut crosses. I still have pain.

My next test is to go back to my old racquet for a few weeks to see if that's the issue.

But while I'm doing these tests, I thought I'd reach out to this great community and see what thoughts you have to add.

Old racquet:
Dunlop Hotmelt 300G

New racquet:
Wilson Blade 98s (18x16) CV

Specs of old vs new racquet here: https://ibb.co/hLz5BF

What do you think is the primary cause?

It has to be the string. Because all else considered, the specs of those two frames are almost identical aside from like 30g of static weight which is basically negligible

 

[aminadream]

What was your previous string type before?

It was a poly / syn gut hybrid, which is what I've switched back to.

Also worth considering, when I went to full poly as I switched to the Blade, I was using Wilson Revolve which is known to be a soft poly, I believe.

I dunno. People at my club are saying they think it's the fact that the Blade is head-heavier than the 300G. But it's only by 2 points, so I'm not sure that would make a big difference.

Do you think it's worth playing with full syn gut with the Blade for a few weeks before switching back to my old 300G? Or best to go back to the 300G first?

 

[CosmosMpower]

I would try the hybrid setup you used in the 300G and see if it still hurts. I doubt 2 points balance will cause pain unless you are drastically changing your technique to compensate. I sometimes switch from a stiff 347 gram 6 points HL racquet to a flexy 285 gram 6 points HH racquet and don't have any pain issues. I also changed from a full bed of syn gut to a full bed of poly in the very light head heavy flexy racquet and noticed a HUGE difference. It went from being one of the softest feeling most powerful racquets to a pretty stiff low to medium powered racquet with just a string change.

 

[mischiefalex]

Just out of curiosity, why did you switched racquet? Other than the balance being 2 pts difference. It could also be the swing weight.
There's a BIG difference in swing weight 307 vs 329 kg.

 

[aminadream]

I would try the hybrid setup you used in the 300G and see if it still hurts.

This statement could be understood as either "try the old strings with the old racquet" or "try the old strings with the new racquet" depending on how you read it. Which do you mean? I am already using the old string setup with my new racquet and the pain doesn't seem to be improving.

Just out of curiosity, why did you switched racquet?

Because my old one is 15 years old, I can rarely find grommets/bumpers for it anymore, and because I really enjoyed the feel of the Blade when I demoed it against several other racquets. Also, I'm 5'8" and 115lbs. I'm working on strength training but felt I could use a bit of assistance by going with a racquet with a bit more heft to it than my old one.

 

[SpinToWin]

Have you considered that the poly strings you're using could be dead? Poly strings have a short playable life, and once they start getting stuck out of place they play considerably more uncomfortable usually.

It likely is technique related too though.

 

[Irvin]

How many times (I wonder) has poly caused pain? Too many weekend warriors want to play with a new magic racket and string.

My guess is it is the string, but it could be the racket, or a combination of the two.

http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/articles/2017/02/15_string_outlook_2017_educati.html

 

[manchu]

Tension? Most of the CV blades I've tried haven't been head light at all. Definitely more head heavy than what was measured on the tw site. Feels like the way CV is distributed in hoop makes top half of hoop heavy. Andy kind of mentions it in 16x19 vid. Still looking for a blade to try that's closer to specs. Hurt my wrist on 18x20 version with Wilson sensation in it. Since then have figured out I do better with a much more head light racquet.

 

[robbo1970]

It was a poly / syn gut hybrid, which is what I've switched back to.

Also worth considering, when I went to full poly as I switched to the Blade, I was using Wilson Revolve which is known to be a soft poly, I believe.

I dunno. People at my club are saying they think it's the fact that the Blade is head-heavier than the 300G. But it's only by 2 points, so I'm not sure that would make a big difference.

Do you think it's worth playing with full syn gut with the Blade for a few weeks before switching back to my old 300G? Or best to go back to the 300G first?

I actually sometimes use a stock HM300G and sometimes use a Prince Exo3 Graphite 93, which has a swingweight of 330. There is a bit of an adjustment to be had and certainly shots that involve a wrist action feel noticeably different.

I'm not wholly convinced it's your strings that are causing this, I think it's the difference in weight distribution around the head of the racquet that you are feeling.

IMO the HM300G is a really easy racquet to use, purely due to its low static weight and low swingweight and making shots that use a little too much of a loose wrist are effortless. I just think that some adjustment is needed with the new racquet and a bit of a firmer control on your wrist movement. Have you tried taping up your wrist to try and train it to stay a little more locked perhaps?

I guess the other thing is that you are starting to use muscles and tendons around your wrist in a way that you hadn't before and you are feeling the strain. That's understandable.

FYI, I will send you a message to let you know where you can get HM300G grommets if you wants some.

 

[djkahn86]

Open pattern.. Softer on arm.
Heavier racquet.. Supposed to be easier on elbow

Full poly.. Could be a shock to arm.

Get some gut In that set up to decrease the arm pain...at the same time.. Start strengthening and massaging the area.

DID you change your swing path? Blade 98S...i would assume someone might try to over due it with a new stick.

It will take a little bit and the arm will calm down and you can go full poly.

I would have leaned towards the racquet being thr cause but I have used the last 3 iterations of the 98S and it's not stiff.

GOOD luck

 

[CopolyX]

I surmise that a lot above is also true but take it with a little different twist. Could be yes all the elements, meaning cause and effect.
The difference in wheelhouse specs and the addition to copoly most likely could be impacting form.
Also mis-hits are not as forgiving and timing could be off the difference in wheelhouse specs.
Thou the CV can be shady, a number of players have reported that the CV somewhat masks (reduces or hides) the vibration. Who knows..Only you do....
But as we know, everyone is different.
I would ensure first that this stick truly fits your game first.
Ensuring form, pain and fatigue are not impacted!
Yes, change the strings to a known factor first, one that is more arm friendly.
This will take time, patience and planning ...
But then, make a decision..
Your body and your game will know.

If the frame is a pass, be open to a natural gut hybrid....once things are settled..

My question also, is did you take the time to demo this frame and or others?
Or did you buy and try?

 

[DustinW]

Maybe you just tweaked something and it has nothing to do with switching your racquet and string. I'd suggest giving it some rest and then try the same setup again.

 

[Irvin]

Maybe you just tweaked something and it has nothing to do with switching your racquet and string. I'd suggest giving it some rest and then try the same setup again.

I went to the doctor once and said,"... why I do this it hurts." The doctor did not say give it a rest and do it again just to see if you tweaked something. He said, "Don't do that!"

 

[stronzzi70]

You should have stayed with yourDunlop 300 G ,,,very nice frame IMO

 

[aminadream]

Thanks for your input, everyone. Here are some additional thoughts.

Have you considered that the poly strings you're using could be dead?

At the beginning, this could have been a possibility. But now if I'm using poly I cut them out once I feel them deadening.

How many times (I wonder) has poly caused pain? Too many weekend warriors want to play with a new magic racket and string.

In case it's relevant to this conversation, I play 5-6 times per week and am rated 4.5, probably will be bumped to 5.0 next year.

Tension?

Stringing between 53 and 55 depending on the string. Any lower and I lose too much control.

Most of the CV blades I've tried haven't been head light at all.

What's the best way of home-testing the balance of my racquet to see whether the specs are right or not?

I guess the other thing is that you are starting to use muscles and tendons around your wrist in a way that you hadn't before and you are feeling the strain. That's understandable. FYI, I will send you a message to let you know where you can get HM300G grommets if you wants some.

That's possible too. I'm working on strengthening my wrist/arm muscles, so it may be a matter of giving it time and effort. Thank you for helping out with the grommets.

Get some gut In that set up to decrease the arm pain...at the same time.. Start strengthening and massaging the area.

Yeah. Will do. In a few days I leave town on a week-long business trip. I'll let my arm rest and resume with some form of gut to see if that helps.

My question also, is did you take the time to demo this frame and or others?
Or did you buy and try?

I demoed it for several weeks with my own string job in there. And I compared it to 5 or 6 other racquets. I gave it a good test run before making the purchase.

 

[fuzz nation]

Hard to know what's going on, but the pain you're experiencing shouldn't be ignored or marginalized. Switching to a different racquet can be hard on the arm just because it's different. Even if it has an arm-friendly reputation, you're probably going to rack up extra mis-hits and unconsciously steer it to the ball a little bit until you grow more accustomed to it over time.

If you can't keep your old Dunlop in service for much longer, then be more proactive about softening up your new racquet. Get away from the poly completely and use a softer string for a while. Even if you go back to your old frame for a little bit, stay away from the poly.

 

[kingcheetah]

I would guess string... try the blade with a more arm friendly setup and see what happens.

 

[Crocodile]

I think going from the 300g to a blade to me is quite a change. The old Dunlop's were quite comfortable frames and I find most Wilson's very harsh. I haven't yet hit with the countervail technology so I hope they are more comfortable.
When choosing racquets I always used to group Dunlop frames with Volkl's, Fischers and Pro Kennex's and found the Wilson frames to be always harsher with the exception of their 7 series racquets (7.1 Si extra, even the old 6.5 was OK).
So I would look at the frame first and look for something more similar in concept to your old Dunlop.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

I'm going to say technique and fitness. But since this is a racquet's page and any mention of technique and/or fitness is strictly forbidden, cause no one wants to hear it.... so yeah sure, racquet.

 

[joohan]

I'm going to say technique and fitness. But since this is a racquet's page and any mention of technique and/or fitness is strictly forbidden, cause no one wants to hear it.... so yeah sure, racquet.

So he's suddenly out of fitness and his technique is gone because he's switched to a new frame...

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

So he's suddenly out of fitness and his technique is gone because he's switched to a new frame...

I've switched racquets before, nothing's ever hurt.

Actually, I don't understand people with lower arm related pains.

(Also, I tend to looking within myself if something uncomfortable surfaces, and not put the blame on external factors. But that's just me. It's not the kind of logic that this forum follows, I know.)

 

[joohan]

I've switched racquets before, nothing's ever hurt.

Actually, I don't understand people with lower arm related pains.

(Also, I tend to looking within myself if something uncomfortable surfaces, and not put the blame on external factors. But that's just me. It's not the kind of logic that this forum follows, I know.)

So because something has never happened to you and you don't understand people who have lower arm related problems you decided to share your wast wisdom regarding a problem that's never happened to you and you don't really understand. Is that correct?

 

[Irvin]

In case it's relevant to this conversation, I play 5-6 times per week and am rated 4.5, probably will be bumped to 5.0 next year.

Even some pros that have won major like Nadal, and Del Prtro have problems.

What's the best way of home-testing the balance of my racquet to see whether the specs are right or not

Get a round pencil and balance the racket on it. Measure the length from the butt to balance point.

 

[aminadream]

Actually, I don't understand people with lower arm related pains.

Probably best for you to be posting in other threads then.

Moving on...

Since I've been playing for years and the only variables that have changed are related to my equipment, I will continue to test different equipment setups while strengthening my arm.

Even some pros that have won major like Nadal, and Del Prtro have problems.

Get a round pencil and balance the racket on it. Measure the length from the butt to balance point.

Yup, I only mentioned that because someone suggested I might be a weekend warrior, and in that case, fitness/conditioning could be the issue.

And thank you for the pencil reco. I will try that and see what it yields.

 

[Irvin]

@aminadream sometimes I play (or hit) 5 to 6 days a week and I consider myself to be a weekend warrior. I consider a weekend warrior as one that participates in activity only in their spare time as opposed to a pro. Sorry that may have been a poor choice of words. No offense meant.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

So because something has never happened to you and you don't understand people who have lower arm related problems you decided to share your wast wisdom regarding a problem that's never happened to you and you don't really understand. Is that correct?

No, perhaps you can't understand where I'm coming from. Again, I don't expect a racquet savy population to. But let's look within ourselves before we put the blame on said equipment.

 

[aminadream]

@aminadream sometimes I play (or hit) 5 to 6 days a week and I consider myself to be a weekend warrior. I consider a weekend warrior as one that participates in activity only in their spare time as opposed to a pro. Sorry that may have been a poor choice of words. No offense meant.

None taken at all. I just wanted to clarify that I'm not playing once or twice a week without training in between. My fitness and technique are pretty solid (can always use work of course), which I thought should be factored into the conversation. Thanks for clarifying though.

 

[danbrenner]

So because something has never happened to you and you don't understand people who have lower arm related problems you decided to share your wast wisdom regarding a problem that's never happened to you and you don't really understand. Is that correct?

this guy is a real gem of an individual. looool.

 

[aminadream]

...oh forums.

 

[Dso]

I've switched racquets before, nothing's ever hurt.

Actually, I don't understand people with lower arm related pains.

(Also, I tend to looking within myself if something uncomfortable surfaces, and not put the blame on external factors. But that's just me. It's not the kind of logic that this forum follows, I know.)

Lucky you. If you think different racquets and/or string combos have no physical effect then you are sadly mistaken. I'm sure technique and fitness can be a factor but you can't possibly overlook the other external factors.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Lucky you. If you think different racquets and/or string combos have no physical effect then you are sadly mistaken. I'm sure technique and fitness can be a factor but you can't possibly overlook the other external factors.

Not saying it's not. Certain not the sole contributor nor is it a massive one.

 

[Dso]

Heavier racquet.. Supposed to be easier on elbow

You know I think this can go both ways honestly. A heavier racquet can certainly be easier in a way as it absorbs more of the shock at impact so to speak (all other things being equal). That being said just the repetitive swinging/serving, for hours, etc of the heavier racquet can induce fatigue/pain too. IMO how much heavier is a tricky thing.

 

[Dso]

Not saying it's not. Certain not the sole contributor nor is it a massive one.

I'm not sure. I think it can be a significant contributor. In my personal experience I've only played with Polys a handful of times. The reduced power was noticeable… subconsciously to offset that I starting swinging harder (self inflicted?)… with a stiffer poly string bed. I started to feel it in my arm pretty soon.

On the flip side when I've been dealing with arm issues, switching to other racquets from my old Babolat allowed me to play without pain while I couldn't otherwise. So I'm saying the racquet/string combo is indeed significant.

 

[joohan]

No, perhaps you can't understand where I'm coming from. Again, I don't expect a racquet savy population to. But let's look within ourselves before we put the blame on said equipment.

Can't understand where you're coming from? I'm sorry I'm clearly not following your train of thought. It's ok, not helping the OP anyway.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

I'm not sure. I think it can be a significant contributor. In my personal experience I've only played with Polys a handful of times. The reduced power was noticeable… subconsciously to offset that I starting swinging harder (self inflicted?)… with a stiffer poly string bed. I started to feel it in my arm pretty soon.

On the flip side when I've been dealing with arm issues, switching to other racquets from my old Babolat allowed me to play without pain while I couldn't otherwise. So I'm saying the racquet/string combo is indeed significant.

I've used light racquets, stiff racquets, soft racquets, but predominantly heavy or "unplayable" racquets as they are labeled on these forums. Never had elbow/wrist/forearm issues.

Also used polys, don't see what people are crying about.

But then again, I do make good use of my gym membership to make sure I'm ready for the kind of hours I'd like to put on the tennis courts.

But, not like any of that makes sense to people here, so I'll just stop. OP, it's the racquet, it's always the racquets and when it's not the racquets, it's the strings.

 

[patraf]

Interesting: a friend of mine is dealling with pain in low arm, playing with a Blade 16x19, the black model. Firtly in his left wrist, he is right handed, and now on the ritgh arm.
I think you should stay for a while with your trusty dunlop's.

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[Dso]

I've used light racquets, stiff racquets, soft racquets, but predominantly heavy or "unplayable" racquets as they are labeled on these forums. Never had elbow/wrist/forearm issues.

Also used polys, don't see what people are crying about.

But then again, I do make good use of my gym membership to make sure I'm ready for the kind of hours I'd like to put on the tennis courts.

But, not like any of that makes sense to people here, so I'll just stop. OP, it's the racquet, it's always the racquets and when it's not the racquets, it's the strings.

Wait till you get on in life… things will break down. For now, enjoy your fitness and superior technique.

 

[Simplicius]

"Other" for me.
The extra (22) swightweight, ie racket's "real" weight (as it is placed all on the hoop, far away from your hand), is the cause for your wrist pain...

IMHO, rackets with 330 SW have to be a lot HL. 8 HL maybe more!
You can "save" your new buy, by adding 15g-20g in the butt cup.
Of course after your wrist is completely cured.
At the moment you may leave it in your bag...

 

[gino]

Thanks for your input, everyone. Here are some additional thoughts.


At the beginning, this could have been a possibility. But now if I'm using poly I cut them out once I feel them deadening.


In case it's relevant to this conversation, I play 5-6 times per week and am rated 4.5, probably will be bumped to 5.0 next year.


Stringing between 53 and 55 depending on the string. Any lower and I lose too much control.


What's the best way of home-testing the balance of my racquet to see whether the specs are right or not?


That's possible too. I'm working on strengthening my wrist/arm muscles, so it may be a matter of giving it time and effort. Thank you for helping out with the grommets.


Yeah. Will do. In a few days I leave town on a week-long business trip. I'll let my arm rest and resume with some form of gut to see if that helps.


I demoed it for several weeks with my own string job in there. And I compared it to 5 or 6 other racquets. I gave it a good test run before making the purchase.

Try lowering your tension, also, be cognizant of the fact that improper follow-through technique can yield injury

 

[robbo1970]

...oh forums.

Indeed. Often descends into politician's lunch break.

A simple question is asked, but the answers just become what others want to say as opposed to giving a straight answer to the original question. And if they don't know the answer, they'll give the answer to a completely different question.

I have learned that there are certain people on here who give good answers and guidance. I've also learned that some should just be ignored.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Indeed. Often descends into politician's lunch break.

A simple question is asked, but the answers just become what others want to say as opposed to giving a straight answer to the original question. And if they don't know the answer, they'll give the answer to a completely different question.

I have learned that there are certain people on here who give good answers and guidance. I've also learned that some should just be ignored.

I offered few possible sources of the issue, but said sources tend to be ignored because it's always the equipment's fault.

 

[Simplicius]

I offered few possible sources of the issue, but said sources tend to be ignored because it's always the equipment's fault.

Dear Say Chi, please be sure that technique and fitness are always in our mind...
The "problem" is that we can NOT change them tomorrow morning, as a racket.
If we have to discuss only things which takes years to achieve, do you agree that the forum it will be very very boring?
To suggest "technique and fitness" to someone, imho it's a commonplace...

 

[CopolyX]

I went to the doctor once and said,"... why I do this it hurts." The doctor did not say give it a rest and do it again just to see if you tweaked something. He said, "Don't do that!"

 

[Shroud]

About a month ago, I switched racquets. At the same time, I switched string setups.

The fact that I made two changes is making it difficult to decipher what is causing my new wrist pain (inside of wrist).

Some people say it's likely the strings — I changed to a full poly setup, which is known to be hard on the arm. (Tension adjusted for poly string.)

Other people say it's likely the balance of the new racquet — 2 points less head light than my old. Weight and composition may be a factor too.

So I've begun some testing. First, I went back to my original string setup, a hybrid of poly mains and syn gut crosses. I still have pain.

My next test is to go back to my old racquet for a few weeks to see if that's the issue.

But while I'm doing these tests, I thought I'd reach out to this great community and see what thoughts you have to add.

Old racquet:
Dunlop Hotmelt 300G

New racquet:
Wilson Blade 98s (18x16) CV

Specs of old vs new racquet here: https://ibb.co/hLz5BF

What do you think is the primary cause?

Probably your conscience for cheating on the HotMelt...or you are compensating for the higher launch angle from the more open pattern and poly by using the wrist. But that is a guess.

 

[fuzz nation]

"Other" for me.
The extra (22) swightweight, ie racket's "real" weight (as it is placed all on the hoop, far away from your hand), is the cause for your wrist pain...

IMHO, rackets with 330 SW have to be a lot HL. 8 HL maybe more!
You can "save" your new buy, by adding 15g-20g in the butt cup.

Very much agree with this idea, too. Some of our pals here aren't interested in their own customizing, so I'm not always quick to recommend it.

I try to avoid promoting my own setup for everyone, but I've always enjoyed heavier frames with lots of HL balance. Several folks have comfortably played with my racquets for as much as an hour or two with no issues, including 11-year-old boys and girls. My racquets weight 12.6-12.8 oz. and balance at 10-11 pts. HL.

I offer that observation because this Blade 98S CV lists as having only 1 point of HL balance. I sampled the 18x20 Blade 98 that preceded the CV generation and while I rather liked it, the biggest issue I had with that frame was it's balance. While I'd consider it to be no more than a middleweight at 11.3 oz., it also balances at only 3 pts. HL.

While the Blade is probably the most flexible racquet in the Wilson lineup and a rather comfortable hitter, this frame was a chore for me to maneuver. I'm sure that if I were to pick one up for myself, I'd have to add enough weight to the handle to create a significantly more HL layout.

Consider adding weight to your handle. Comparing your new Wilson's balance to that of your old Dunlop may be revealing - a difference of a few points can make a big difference in my opinion. I've had luck with placing 1/2" lead tape on my handles, but there are other methods/materials that are easy and that can also be undone in case they don't work out.

 

[patraf]

I started playing with Wilson h25, flex Rating 58 and no pain at all. Today the last of them had the strings broken and I had to take an Angell tc97, 66 flex. I felt some disconfort on the wrist.
All this to say that I think the main cause IMHO must be the new racquet and his balance and flex.

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[joohan]

I started playing with Wilson h25, flex Rating 58 and no pain at all. Today the last of them had the strings broken and I had to take an Angell tc97, 66 flex. I felt some disconfort on the wrist.
All this to say that I think the main cause IMHO must be the new racquet and his balance and flex.

Enviado de meu SM-G800H usando Tapatalk

Angell TC97 feels a lot crisper than 58RA strung TC95. Same specs. One more thing - new frames have crisper graphite compared to a long used racquets. My 5+y old Dunlop Bio300Tour(with lots of lead) feels softer than my new TC97 despite higher RA unstrung. Ultimately, it's about finding what works best for you.

 

[patraf]

For sure: my dunlop's aerogel 3hundred tour feels softer than tc97 also.
The main problem is that companies decided to go stiffer and litgher: it's such a bad combination.

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