new rule in tennis in necessary

Bill Tilden

New User
new rule in tennis is necessary

Momentum of inertia is most important in tennis, so at the end of a mach the raquet of a player must be controlled in its weight and balance and their must be show and be publics.


A similar rule there is in alpine ski where the ski are measured at the end of a race, why not in tennis?
 

Mr.Federer

Hall of Fame
why on earth is that rule necessary? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't players allowed to use whatever stick they want? length,sqr inches.
Your question is un-necessary.
 

Alexandros

Professional
Bill Tilden said:
A similar rule there is in alpine ski where the ski are measured at the end of a race, why not in tennis?

Because tennis is not alpine skiing? Stupid comparison.
 

Cruzer

Professional
This is a variation on the idea that the ATP tour should require the use of wooden racquets which has been discussed several times on these boards previously.
 

Bill Tilden

New User
But like in alpine ski the raquet (or the ski) can make the difference. The new model of ski have a particular shape: this kind of ski ar not linear there are difference between the tail the center and the tip, this differents help every kind of skier to do better and better.

This kind of ski don't help only the pro help everyone. In italian the name is "sciancratura" now i haven't a good dictionary here.

it's like the measures of a woman (90 - 60- 90 ):confused:

if there is much differents in "Sciancratura" the ski can make the differents in a race because increase stability ad speed during a curve. (carving ski)

The federetion have decided to conform all the ski for the official race because few millimeter can make the difference.

Now in tennis is the same if I have a racket that weight 14 oz and with a correct balance at the handle and you have a light raquet you lose because with your light weight you can't contrast my ball so you start to swing fast and faster so you lose in control and you can't control the ball.

Loose the mach and go home with tennis elbow beacuse the energy that you put in your stroke must go somewhere but your raquet is light so that energy came back in to your arm, you can't transfer that energy into the ball.

The best raquet in center court is the best raquet at the club.

Which kind of problem they have to show me their raquet after a race

The constructors have some problems and why?

This a paradox but explain very well the situation, if you want a light racket take a badminton raquet and let me see how you can play tennis.

This is Physic, no interpretation, no question.

I have write this post to extend the discussion of the topic "venus's Serena's Andy roddick' raquet" "ESPN paint job" "Sampras set up" etc.

A pro can use everything but he must show me, he can't make moneies with the tennis elbow of the peaple, when he show me only a paint job. The constructors can't make moneies selling wrost paint job raquet.

In italian: "ma... vaffanculo".
 

Mugatu

Rookie
your comment about the truck and the car is stupid. pros can choose whatever specs they want, so if the game was motor vehicle collisions, everyone would choose a truck. pros use the racquets that they play best with and that's all that matters
 

Bill Tilden

New User
Mugatu said:
your comment about the truck and the car is stupid. pros can choose whatever specs they want, so if the game was motor vehicle collisions, everyone would choose a truck. pros use the racquets that they play best with and that's all that matters

I respect your opinion but is just an opinion and tennis is a sport of collisions...collision after collision.

Open your mind to knowledge, knowledge is freedom.

by Wilmot McCutchen www.racquetresearch.com:

"Pete Sampras uses a 14 oz. racquet that has an even balance, Andre Agassi uses a 13.2 oz. racquet that is 5/8 inch (5 points) head-light, and Mark Philippoussis uses a 13.5 oz. racquet that is 3/4 inch (6 points) head-light. These guys, from their outstanding performance, obviously know something about what works in top echelon tennis. What they use is no heavier than the old wood racquets, and even children used to be able to swing them.

Most of the best sellers today, however, are about 4 ounces lighter. Why won't the racquet manufacturers offer the same racquet that these pros use? If it's not the same, why mislead people when you know -- or any reasonable person should know -- that it is deceptive to have the pro out there with the same paint job as the light racquet? Exhibit "A": Andre Agassi plays with what is purportedly a Head Ti Radical, but his racquet weighs 2.5 ounces more.

If you are inclined to buy a granny stick, consider this: if you were in a car accident, which would you rather be driving, a compact or a truck? We all know that the light car will get crushed. The collision of a racquet and a ball is the same thing: a heavy racquet will keep going on impact, crushing the ball more for better pace and spin."


Show the weight and balance of the pro raquet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Mugatu

Rookie
you have completely missed my point. the point is that there is nothing stopping anyone having a racquet that weighs whatever they want. if a player is somehow disadvantaged by using a lighter racquet than their opponent (as u would seem to suggest), then they can simply get a heavier racquet.. noone is stopping them. it is not some secret cheating mechanism when one uses a heavy stick.

now the point being made by racquet research is all about how the racquets marketed to the public are relatively light (compared to actual pro racquets). this is a completely separate issue. yes, they make the point that pros use heavier racquets but that is no secret.

i agree that heavier racquets are the go but not that the sport needs to be regulated in some way to standardize racquet weight. it is unneccessary. like i said, players, one would assume, use the racquet that allows them to perform their best; that is all one can ask for.

maybe the guidelines u suggest could improve the sport, but your conclusions do not logically flow from simply saying that sampras & co use heavy racquets..
 

Bill Tilden

New User
A pro can use everything but he must show me, he can't make moneies with the tennis elbow of the peaple, when he show me only a paint job. The constructors can't make moneies selling wrost paint job raquet.

I only quote myself.

I think tennis need a rule that show what a pro are using in a mach. After a macht you can see: Mr Federer won with a Wilson ncode 15 oz. and 4 pts hedlight, for example. The opponent Mr Roddick used a Babolat of 4 oz. and 34 pts head heavy, for example.


Is it a problem for Mr Federer? and Why?

Is it a problem for Mr Roddick? and why?

Is it a problem for constuctors? and why?
:rolleyes:
 

TennisAsAlways

Professional
Bill Tilden said:
I think tennis need a rule that show what a pro are using in a mach. After a macht you can see: Mr Federer won with a Wilson ncode 15 oz. and 4 pts hedlight, for example. The opponent Mr Roddick used a Babolat of 4 oz. and 34 pts head heavy, for example.


Is it a problem for Mr Federer? and Why?

Is it a problem for Mr Roddick? and why?

Is it a problem for constuctors? and why?
There are not any rules that I know of that forces the players' frame specs to be made available to the public. The official governing body of tennis, however, is required to inspect all players' frames. Players' frames do get inspected but they are not made available to the public. It's a "requirement" so that they can determine whether or not the equipment is legal. For instance, you are not allowed to have a frame that has an inertia that moves around inside/on the frame while a point is in play. My point is, the governing bodies already knows the frame specs of the players before matches.

Now, as far as making it a requirement that player's frame specs be made public, I would have to oppose that idea.

You asked, "'Is it a problem for Federer?,' and, 'Is it a problem for Roddick?'" Well, I would see that it could be a problem for "any player," if such a rule was made to require that all players' racquet specs be made publc. I know that if I was a pro then I certainly wouldn't want other people to fathom my racquet specs/concepts.

Why am I against your idea, Mr. Tilden? Because the players's with the best customizations would have their secrets and or ideal concepts exposed to their opponents. It's like in a war, would you want to inform the enemy general the positions of your units? Same with race car driving. If you were on team Renault, would you want to inform your competitors (team Ferrari etc.) about your engine setup for a particular race course?

In a lot of competitions, technology is also a factor in attaining an edge; be it a slight edge or a huge advantage. Since you mentioned the "Venus', Serena's And Roddick's" thread, MackSamuelHustovisics' posts just came to mind. I think Mack explains this whole technology thing best. Here are a couple of his posts that explains some points that I agree with entirely:
MackSamuelHustovisics said:
post #14 A huge part of the competition among pro tennis is technology warefare. It's not the type of tech that you see manufacturers use for promoting their new designs, such as "Flexpoint", "Nano", "Intelligence Chip" etc. It's a technology that has to do with manipulating power points, control, flex, maneuverablity, and most importantly....swing dynamics.

This trade secret of having the ideal racquet is very much like secrets that different militaries of different countries have. It is kept away from the public. Part of the race in pro tennis is not just being a better conditioned and skilled player, having world-class coaches, having more money, etc. It also has to do with either being smart enough to discover the best techology or being lucky enough to have someone(s) offer the player the tech. So John is not out of his mind for stating certain pro players being disadvantaged due to their equipment. He's also not saying that equipement alone carries a player either. When he mentions these things, being a great player is already a given. He's saying it in a way that the players are already highly talented and highly skilled. That's why it comes down to, "the use of inferior equipment causes losses" -- in the way that John implies it (Of course having a bad day is part of it and just not being the better player that day as well, but the right tech might have enabled a losing player to win more key points in a match that could have been a turning point in momentum, enabling the said player to make come-backs.).

I am the same way. When I refer to players needing a better frame to improve their play, I am not talking about Joe down the street the amature. A lot of people, especially other teaching pros will say that players need to improve techniques and strategy in order to win more. Well of course that is true, but when I speak, all of that is already a given. The player is as elite as he/she can possibly be at the moment and so that's why having the ideal racquet design is the winning-factor advantage, the same way as how John sees it.

If you spend enough time experimenting with different customizations then perhaps you will learn a thing or two.
MackSamuelHustovisics said:
post # 36 From my experiences working with people and customizing frames, as far as superior racquets being kept away from the public and certain peoples, that is very real in my belief. I do not however think that the tennis industry is intentionally preventing the public from getting their hands on these frames. It's more like how I described things in an earlier post.

Sometimes what happened (or is still happening on an ongoing basis) is that different teams (or individuals) have researched and developed their "ideal" frame for their particular individual player(s) (or themselves). It's like a race car team that keeps their secrets out of the hands of their competitors. I don't reveal some secrets for the same reasons. You don't want the other team (or other individual competitor)to get freebies off of you after what you had to do to get the advantage in the first place.

Besides striving to be the better player, part of the competition is also having more and better knowledge about the physics of the ideal racquet and sometimes one may not even need to be doing the actual research and development to attain that knowledge of creating the ideal racquet because the ideal racquet could just simply be handed to him or her.

Your last question, "Is it a problem for the constructors?," I would have to answer: yes it seems that it would be a problem for them. Why? Because, if the public knew what made racquets ideal then they wouldn't be "buying into/fooled into" the racquet science gimmicks that the racquet manufacturers invent that are utilize to increase sales by luring the mindless Joes and Janes.

Paint jobs are part of the racquet manufacturers "marketing plan," a brilliant one to! Just be glad that you are among the ones who know about the gimmicks/PJs. (Of course, knowing about PJs doesn't make you special or unique because if you were truly a tennis junkie in the first place then you would know that all of this isn't really a big secret afterall!)

As far as the "ethics" of such a marketing ploy by the racquet companies going on beneath our very own eyes, I won't get into politics! I'll leave that to others.

Good day now. 8)
 

TennisAsAlways

Professional
Bill Tilden said:
A pro can use everything but he must show me, he can't make moneies with the tennis elbow of the peaple, when he show me only a paint job. The constructors can't make moneies selling wrost paint job raquet.
I think the only reason why you want the pros' frame specs revealed to the public is because you happen to be very curious about who uses what etc. You want to know so badly because it is upsetting you that there is so much mystery involved in racquet researching! I don't think that your reasoning behind all of this is to better improve the sport of tennis. I think you are just saying all of this because you get frustrated everytime you run into things that do not make sense and whenever you cannot get the answers you are looking for.

As far as for equipement, I think the rules in tennis are fine the way they are. If however, the rule -- that sets a limit as to how heavy a frame can be -- is still in existance then I think they should abandon that rule, that way players can have frames as heavy as they want it to be. As far as the "minimum" racquet weight requirement rule, I don't care if that still exists because I never plan on using a sub-10 ounce flyswatter anyways!

Good day now. 8)
 

Bill Tilden

New User
I like your kind of mind TAA but if a got to Maranello tomorrow I can buy the Ferrari car of Shumacher naturally I can't use it in the normal street but I can buy it if i have the Euro.

I could use the raquet of Federer but i can't buy it....

If Ferrari develop something I will find it in the car for public, Wilson develop something and I find another thing.

The rule in Formula one change every year, Ferrari won for 5 years then the rules was changed in the direction of the study of the others team and Ferrari lose. (politc? ethica? simply life...)

In tennis we can't change the rule, in Tennis we have the Sacro Graal of the rules. If you are happy in this way....
 

doriancito

Hall of Fame
i didnt get it much....i think what he means is to have the rcquet inspected to not exceed the ATP rules of a normal stick, but players costumize it so much that mostof the players would be sanctioned
 

doriancito

Hall of Fame
wow! i just read a rule that stated that there must not be any type of energy device inside a racquet and iuf im not mistaken.....our fellow company HEAD has a chip in a line of their racuqet that changes vibration into energy.....now what?
 

TennisAsAlways

Professional
Mr Tilden, what I am saying is that if I were a touring professional tennis player and had the best equipment that gives me an advantantage over the other players (slight edge, big edge...any edge), I wouldn't want my competitors snooping around for infomation about my equipement. I would want to keep things secret.

With things the way they curently are, only the governing body is "required" to know about my frame and so that's a good thing if I were a pro because I could keep things secret. (Of course with the way things are currently, a player could bribe officials inside of the governing body and obtain equipment specs of others players if they wanted to. Corruption is every.) My point is that if I was a pro player, I would not want to just have my equipment displayed freely for the whole world to see. If I were a pro, I would see things like this:

"If you want my top-notch concepts, then why don't you discover it on your own or hire YOUR own technician/scientist/engineer to discover the top-notch things rather than steal what I have! Why should I have to give you "free" information? It is my advantage. I have the best equipent and so why should I give others a break by offering it to others so that they would be on a more level playing field with me? I want to have as much of an edge as possible and having superior equipent is just "one" thing", but it is still "something" to add. I want to dominate the the league and win. I'm sure any aspiring player would want that as well."

BTW people, equipment alone doesn't make a champion a champion! Any person with logic should know that! (I'm just tired of people who post things like, "with all of that time spent on developing a better frame, why wouldn't one just spend that time wisely by improving their skills, etc." ,,,,blah blah blah!! things like that.) I'm answer Mr Tilden's post, putting myself in the shoes of a person who is playing tennis for a living.

Good day now. 8)
 

TennisAsAlways

Professional
doriancito said:
i didnt get it much....i think what he means is to have the rcquet inspected to not exceed the ATP rules of a normal stick, but players costumize it so much that mostof the players would be sanctioned
Who are you referring to? Also, I have no idea what you are talking about.


Good day now. 8)
 

Bill Tilden

New User
Overall i say that i can make some error in traslation and sometimes i can loose some shadings of the concepts, anyway i think that pros players are also public person, they have their face everywhere to suggest peaple to buy raquet that are not just right on.

yesterday I saw a friend who have stopped to play tennis because he have a big tennis elbow he can't take a glass of water with the hand....

I told him a lot of time to change the raquet but it is a war lost because there is a lot of disinformation around tennis raquet.

One month ago i was in a tennis shop to buy a racket for child they told me that light is better, I told them I have started with a wood raquet, and they answer to me to forget this type of raquet, but in reality I owe my tennis to wood raquet too.

I can say: i'm not in the game!

I think there is conflict of interest between the sport of tennis and economy, pros are under contract and suggest to you to buy some raquet, tennis teacher are under contract too (i'm PTR) and suggest to buy some raquets, tennis industry want sell raquet, simply raquet not neccessary good raquet just raquets, every year raquets.

I think this not improve the sport of tennis.

the real Bill Tilden in his "the art of law tennis" said that every one would have start to play with a raquet between 13.5 -14.5 oz., and I agree with him.

It was the year 1925, now we are in 2006 and we have had a regression of concepts and ideas, I think this not improve the sport of tennis.

Yesterday i have srtung a racket for a friend it was a wrost light cheap raquet and head heavy, but on the bag there is a face of a pros.
 

TennisAsAlways

Professional
morten said:
raise the net, 10 cm will be enough.
First off, why would you want to raise the net? Secondly, that is way off from the OP's (Mr Tilden's) subject. The thread wasn't asking, "what rule would you suggest changing?" Mr Tilden specifically mentioned how he wanted pros' racquet specs to be made available to everyone, which I opposed.

Good day now. 8)
 
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