New surface at the USO this year

Both players have been doing better on medium-fast courts nowadays. Nadal was actually better on hard courts than clay last year and Djokovic seems to prefer the quicker hard courts to the slower ones (Shanghai, Paris, AO compared to IW, Miami).
2017 Medium Fast

AO (CPI 42) Winner Federer
Shanghai (CPI 42.9) Winner Federer
Nitto ATP Finals (CPI 42.1) Winner Dimitrov

2018 Medium Fast

Shanghai (CPI 40.2) Winner Djokovic
Nitto ATP Finals (CPI 40.3) Winner Zverev

2019 Medium Fast

Canada (CPI 42.8) Winner Nadal
Shanghai (CPI 40.9) Winner Medvedev
Paris (CPI 40.6) Winner Djokovic
Nitto ATP finals (CPI 41.6) Winner Tsitsipas


3/9

:cool:
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster

My apologies if there’s a thread on this already, but this year’s USO will be interesting. From watching some matches at ‘Cincy’, it looks fairly quick.


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What is laykold ?? why is it so fast ? i thought all surfaces can be made slow and they were going to make US open slower this year ? no wonder RAFA didn't play. this is great chance for Tsitsipas and Raonic
 

Robert F

Professional
I’ve heard these same comments last year.

"The court is fast and low bouncing!"

"Ideal for Djokovic and Federer!"

"Nadal is in trouble!"

We know how it all ended.
Maybe the USTA took Nadal winning as a sign the courts aren't fast enough. If the King of Clay wins there easily it is too slow and they want to see more attacking tennis?
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
2017 Medium Fast

AO (CPI 42) Winner Federer
Shanghai (CPI 42.9) Winner Federer
Nitto ATP Finals (CPI 42.1) Winner Dimitrov

2018 Medium Fast

Shanghai (CPI 40.2) Winner Djokovic
Nitto ATP Finals (CPI 40.3) Winner Zverev

2019 Medium Fast

Canada (CPI 42.8) Winner Nadal
Shanghai (CPI 40.9) Winner Medvedev
Paris (CPI 40.6) Winner Djokovic
Nitto ATP finals (CPI 41.6) Tsitsipas


3/9

:cool:
Any numbers for AO 2018 and 2019? Those were the same surfaces as the 2017 edition so I’d be surprised if they were different. Very interested to see that Cincinnati isn’t on this list as it’s probably faster than many of the tournaments listed. Probably the balls.

I don’t think showing the winners tell the whole story (especially in 2017, when known faster-court specialist Federer took home two of the wins). I noticed that many of those tournaments also had other good performances by Djokovic and Nadal (such as Nadal making the AO and Shanghai 2017 finals, Djokovic making the WTF 2018 final).

I was also curious about Shanghai 2018’s omission but then found out that it was merely 0.1 point away from 40. I think that’s certainly close enough to warrant at least an honorable mention.
 

Benben245

Banned
other way around. more upsets in faster conditions. that's why the center courts, where the top guys play, were slowed down relatively more.

outer courts have always played faster in recent years, so we'll still have to wait.
Incorrect, atp and itf want slugfests with iconic players of years past on main courts. Slowing these stadium courts down to keep the star matchups of Federer Vs Nadal Alive. They want medvedev and company who more often play on the outer courts and whose talent is closer to the mean in terms of standard deviation separation to have the advantage over a journeyman who could potentially outslug them if the courts are slow. They want this player to meet Djokovic etc in the quarters on courts 1,2,3 where things are slowed down to create longer points for tv , for Nielsen ratings which enables better bargaining power with advertisers
 

WhiskeyEE

G.O.A.T.
Hmmmm I saw a video and it was hard to tell from the angle. But I would believe faster than normal.

Thiem should drop out and start practicing on clay.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
"Talking about the speed, the courts are in the medium category when it comes to speed. This makes them slower than the medium-fast courts of the US Open. "
 

van_Loederen

Professional
^this statement may refer to what DecoTurf used or was meant to be (in the view of the Laykold guy) instead of what it was like last year.

LOL,, what about serve bombers like Raonic ?? don't they have unfair advantage
indeed. on a faster court it's easier for him to upset a top player. :cautious: (not talking about actual fast low bouncing as that's not relevant nowadays.)

...today most hardcourts are however so slow that speeding them up should aid the aging DJ and RAFA, and also some hopefuls like Shapo.

...as for the USO courts this year, to my eyes so far they are not looking so fast, so not AO 2017 level, let alone what Gilbert said.
the ball seems heavier than AO 2017, less lively, but to fly well. one can belt it good and control it well.
 

socallefty

Legend
I hope the courts are faster at the USO - I would rather watch some fast-hard court tennis. It seems like the new roof design has made the main stadium much more humid even when the roof is not used and the premier matches have become an even more brutal physical battle on the slow surface of the past few years when it is hot and humid. I liked seeing Nadal finish many points at the net in the USO final last year and would enjoy seeing more points being finished at the net this year also.

I don’t like servebot tennis and don’t want to see pure defensive baseline battles either - but, fast-paced baseline rallies ending with volleys would be the most entertaining tennis to watch.
 
LOL,, what about serve bombers like Raonic ?? don't they have unfair advantage
LOL. What a ridiculous post.

People aren't born with a great Serve. A great Serve is the product of years and years of practice and refinement. A player who has a great Serve has earned the right to take advantage of it. The Serve is pretty much the only CLOSED skill in the sport - the only skill the player has virtually total control over. Why should a court surface negate that?

If there is concern the Serve influences the game too much, then there is a simple solution. Only allow one Serve to start a point. (This would encourage players to place more focus on developing a good Serve ... and would shorten the duration of most Tennis matches.)
 

Lleytonstation

G.O.A.T.
LOL. What a ridiculous post.

People aren't born with a great Serve. A great Serve is the product of years and years of practice and refinement. A player who has a great Serve has earned the right to take advantage of it. The Serve is pretty much the only CLOSED skill in the sport - the only skill the player has virtually total control over. Why should a court surface negate that?

If there is concern the Serve influences the game too much, then there is a simple solution. Only allow one Serve to start a point. (This would encourage players to place more focus on developing a good Serve ... and would shorten the duration of most Tennis matches.)
 

Blade0324

Hall of Fame
From all I have been seeing so far the courts do seem very quick. IMHO this is a terrible idea. Slow Hard courts are absolutely the way to go. Fast surfaces promote serve bots and S&V which makes for faster matches. I think the USTA is trying to keep things moving faster this year since it is about the TV audience.
 

Robert F

Professional
When it is too slow, then you get too many long grinding matches.
I think the tour needs to find the balance that creates a variety of playing style to keep the game interesting. Having some fast and some slow tournaments allows players to choose a style of play that they can be successful with. Sure the servebots might dominate a fast US Open and will never go to far at Roland, and find a neutral ground at a medium pace Aussie. But if all the courts are slow, people will just focus on baseline skills.

When every point looks the same, it will be tough to get new interest in tennis.

I prefer baseline tennis over S and V. But love it when a baseliner faces S and V.
 
Fast surfaces promote serve bots and S&V which makes for faster matches.
I don't understand this. How many Serve boys have won Paris of early 2010s ,Cincinnati and Dubai or AO 2016 onwards? Did we not have great matches on those courts? Heck which servebot even made semis?

Don't we have epic matches every year at WB, which is relatively slower than its past yet faster than any court except a few today?


Which servebot except Anderson has done too well there? Don't we get great matches there every year?


I don't understand why variety is shunned. The tour should be interesting and each kind of surface whether slow or fast, should get ample space.
 
Slow Hard courts are absolutely the way to go. Fast surfaces promote serve bots and S&V which makes for faster matches. I think the USTA is trying to keep things moving faster this year since it is about the TV audience.
You have answered your own unintentional question.

Slow playing conditions promote longer rallies which means longer matches. Given the sport is dominated by Media companies now, longer matches will become less and less desirable because they blow out the Broadcasting schedules.

So the response will be a slow transition to different match formats and scoring formats to shorten the duration of tennis matches. (EG. 4 Game Sets or use of Deciding Points when games get to Deuce or perhaps even a Super Tiebreaker in lieu of a Third Set).

Otherwise, the specialist sports channels like Tennis Channel and TennisTV will basically take over all TV Broadcasting meaning everyone will have to pay to watch. This is likely to shrink the tennis audience around the world. That may or may not be a good thing depending on one's POV.

(Don't forget, the Four Major Tournaments are run by the ITF so they are unlikely to change too much and will always be attractive to FTA TV Broadcasters around the world.)
 
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