New Tennis Ratings Site

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by ronray43, May 15, 2017.

  1. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    This site is getting shakier as it goes. Beat and won more games than a 4.52, and got a 4.51 match rating.

    J
     
  2. BeyondTheTape

    BeyondTheTape Rookie

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    So...youre telling me that a free ratings site is breaking down. hmmmm :rolleyes::rolleyes: didn't see that coming.
     
  3. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Better that the site break down than I break down.

    J
     
  4. NumbersGuy

    NumbersGuy Rookie

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    Perfectly possible given the algorithm as we understand it. Remember, the observed differential is split in half before assigning to each player to calculate their match rating.
     
  5. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]

    J
     
  6. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Looks like the way to get a really high rating is:

    1. Be a good player and start with a fairly high dntrp.
    2. Find yourself a bump up player or someone coming back from injury season who will perform better than their low dntrp.
    3. Play #2 doubles and whoop the **** out of middle of the road teams.

    J
     
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  7. NumbersGuy

    NumbersGuy Rookie

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    or Zeno's Paradox maybe
     
  8. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    It is about beating up on the lower players and staying even with those at/above. We had a post Districts letdown last night and lost and I'm not sure I will recover overall to get the bump. Last year I played the 1 most of the year and the majority of opponents we faced (usually the opposing top tandem) was 3.2x or so. I feel your pain. We have to blow them out just to have a chance. Got forbid you work on S&V etc and wind up 4&4


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  9. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    My rating on this site dropped by 0.12 in one week, and I didn't even play any matches that count (only a pair of mixed matches ).

    My TLS rating went up in same time period.
     
  10. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Just played an awful match. Pray for Jolly.

    J
     
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  11. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    TLS is so off for our team. I can't even use them for general info


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  12. kevrol

    kevrol Semi-Pro

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    Same with my team. Has one player on my team at 3.48 that tennisrecord has at 3.18. The 3.18 is much closer to where this guy stands.
     
  13. therecanbeonlyone

    therecanbeonlyone Rookie

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    So, here are my last 2 singles results on TennisRecord, which I don't really understand. I am a computer rated 4.0 (have been for several years). I played a guy that TR had as a 3.49 and won by a total score of 12-1, which generated a match rating of 3.88 (lower than I thought, but whatever). Next match I play a guy TR has as a 4.04 and win by a total score of 11-8, which generates a 3.98 match rating.

    How can you beat a 4.04 and generate a match rating worse than 4.04?
     
  14. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    That's what I said!

    J
     
  15. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Sucks that the site updates on Wednesday and I have so many Thursday matches. It's like waiting a week for your sentencing.

    J
     
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  16. Startzel

    Startzel Hall of Fame

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    Because the same way your ranking goes up the formula brings his rating down. So it's likely that formula treats it as he didn't play to a 4.04 level.
     
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  17. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    I hear ya. We play on Wednesday nights now. Curious to match score as we won more games overall.


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  18. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    TLS has me at 4.20 on Long Island where I have a very strong record, and 4.53 in Metro where I have a still good but much shakier record. I don't understand that site at all.

    J
     
  19. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    Somehow tennis record has me about the same as I was pre match we lost (3.4x) same area as Schmke last I checked. TLS has me a low 3.3x. We beat up on our opponent last night 1&1 but now my rating will probably go down!!
    I don't really consider TLS as a resource. Appreciate the effort but it lacks that consistent/accuracy formula that is needed with data.


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  20. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    What does the rating need to be to get an appeal through. For example if a person is rated as a 4.5. What would the dynamic rating need to be for the appeal to go through?
     
  21. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Do retirements count towards your rating?

    Asking for a friend.

    J
     
  22. Startzel

    Startzel Hall of Fame

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    If you play a completed set it does.

    From schmke because he can't link his blog.

    Q33: My match ended in a retirement, so does it count towards my NTRP rating?
    A: Short answer, it depends. Long answer is that it does if at least one set was completed, but doesn't if not. And when it does count, the actual score at the time of the retirement is used. This means you could get a match win in the standings when trailing 0-6, 0-5, but your rating would be calculated based on the 0-6, 0-5 score.

    http://computerratings.blogspot.com/p/usta-ntrp-faq.html?m=1
     
  23. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Cool, thank god for @schmke

    J
     
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  24. OnTheLine

    OnTheLine Semi-Pro

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    so my summer league started yesterday .... it is one that does not count toward EOY NTRP ... match results went in to tennisrecord and it is properly marked for no new rating .... glad they know what counts and doesn't count in my region, sad that I have to wait until September and the Fall leagues to see any movement in that stupid number. Off to go find better rabbit holes to go down!
     
  25. kevrol

    kevrol Semi-Pro

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    Here in Southern tennisrecord.com calculates and includes ratings on our summer singles league that is not included in your EOY NTRP so they're apparently not consistent.
     
  26. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Fuxors!

    J
     
  27. kevrol

    kevrol Semi-Pro

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    ^Wasn't criticizing the site. Just pointing out in some places they do include matches that don't count.
     
  28. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    They go in before they are calculated. They may show today.


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  29. Startzel

    Startzel Hall of Fame

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    It was cool to see how those matches affect my rating though.
     
  30. OnTheLine

    OnTheLine Semi-Pro

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    Nope, not rated ... so they got something right in this region anyway .... would LOVE to have my match from last night count ... me and partner (both 3.5s) beat a pair of 4.0s 7-5; 6-2 .... that one would probably look pretty nice!

    I will have to be content with personal satisfaction instead of seeing the recognition in a 3 (or 5) digit number!
     
  31. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    lost faith in tennisrecord.com
    it's missing matches i played that are in the usta site.
    it shows matches i never played (wrong names and scores).
    it was entertaining while it lasted...
     
  32. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    My matches at 9.0 sectionals are missing.

    I have seen wrong names but they have been fixed the next week.

    J
     
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  33. BeyondTheTape

    BeyondTheTape Rookie

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    im starting to think @J011yroger is the puppet master behind this madness.
     
  34. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]

    J
     
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  35. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    Curious if anyone else is seeing a similar disparity.
    TR -3.47
    TLS- 3.26
    2016 Schmke - 3.45. (Year end)
    This is why I didn't use TLS in the past. 0.2 is a big difference when looking for info on unknown players.


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  36. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    TR: 4.4508
    TLS LI: 4.20
    TLS Metro: 4.53

    J
     
  37. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    GA and SC combined have as many players as CA and CA has two Sections. Southern needs to be busted up and the USTA map redrawn. The USTA head in Atlanta is all about protecting this little empire. SC is only 1K smaller than FL.

    GA, NC, SC combinded is a monster Section with 43K players, larger than the combo of SoCal, Norcal, and FL.
     
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  38. winchestervatennis

    winchestervatennis Semi-Pro

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    I don't disagree with you, but doesn't the current large section make states and sectionals that much tougher and rewarding to win and/or play well?
     
  39. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    The Southern geographic footprint is too large. 10+ hour drive to Mobile from SC. Imagine the players in eastern NC having to drive to Mobile.

    The competition isn't the issue, it is the distance players have to travel. I have been to Mobile twice for tennis and hundreds of times in a jet. I won't go back for tennis.

    17 Sections could be 20 Sections.

    GA becomes Section 18
    NC / SC becomes Section 19
    CO becomes Section 20
    4 groups of 5 equals four matches
    Two semi-finals then a final.
    Riddle solved.
     
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  40. winchestervatennis

    winchestervatennis Semi-Pro

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    That wouldnt really solve any distance issues for the Kentucky teams going to mobile, but it works great for you and i so you've convinced me!
     
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  41. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    If Southern didn't have GA, NC, SC, they wouldn't need Mobil as all those extras teams wouldn't be going. Every one of those states sends a team at every level to Sectionals.

    Southern could have six smaller states AL, AR, KY, LA, MS, and TN which would allow them to move Southern Sectionals in Memphis or Birmingham and not need 70 courts. This would allow GA to use Rome, and NC/SC to use Asheville, Columbia, Hilton Head.

    Having a section with 9 states creates problems for teams due to lack of courts, and travel.

    Make the USTA Southern head the GA head and let the USTA expand it's empire.
     
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  42. schmke

    schmke Hall of Fame

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    And then the USTA (used to be) Southern head and powers that be are running a smaller empire, why would they be for that? I'm sure there are lots of politics (read money) involved and those currently in power see nothing to gain from any change that results in more/smaller sections.

    BTW, I do agree Southern is way to large comparatively, and what @g4driver outlines for Nationals does make sense. Of course, other sections may complain as rather than just one really strong team at Nationals from Southern, there would now likely be three really strong teams from GA/Carolinas/Southern to go through ...
     
  43. kevrol

    kevrol Semi-Pro

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    Yep. Going to be hard to convince Southern Tennis Association's Excecutive Director/COO that reducing the size of his business will not impact his $270k/year compensation package.
     
  44. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Here's my take: I don't get paid to play tennis, not do I GARA about some USTA head building his or her empire.

    GA/NC/SC has more USTA players than than CA and FL Combined. It makes zero sense that GA/NC/SC are in one Section. There is only one reason. $$$$$

    GA/NC/SC USTA revenues alone can pay the Southern USTA budget 3X over. If FL can cover their budget with 11K players, revenue / costs isn't the issue. It the power grab by the USTA ilk. These folks don't produce anything. They regulate and take and make idiot decisions like banning players from playing on multiple teams at State even. SC mixed in 2014. Terrible decisions.

    Sorry, color me unimpressed with the USTA and their antiquated system.

    Schmke's algorithm can simulate the USTA's and he knows that the USGA has a better rating system that is much tougher to control.

    https://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap.asp

    Imagine if the USTA used all matches and only used the best 10 out of 20. Tough to tank when half the matches don't count toward a rating.
     
  45. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Why shouldn't GA & NC/SC be their own sections ?

    NC/SC Combined is smaller in land area but have more players than both CA Sections combined and would be the largest section in the US if just these two states were combined.

    My friends 4.5 team is only bringing 8 guys to Mobile for 40+ 4.5 Simply can't get more players to commit to traveling 10+ hours to play in the wet city in America in late July.
     
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  46. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Well actually it isn't his call. Last time I checked his bosses work in NYC. But let's don't do anything that makes sense for the people who pay his salary. After all, it's all about the USTA employees who produce nothing, not the players who pay the salaries.

    Nothing will change with all the players continuing to travel to Mobile instead of saying no thanks.

    The less I play USTA, the more I don't miss it. Our National Championship team is still waiting for the participation payment from the USTA. Somehow, not holding our breath.
     
  47. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    I would love for CO to be its own region. There were just over 100 3.5m 18+ teams in the state for usta. 10 flights in Denver alone with only 5 advancing to Districts.


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  48. OnTheLine

    OnTheLine Semi-Pro

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    10 flights in Denver???? wow, that is pretty impressive to me! Vegas has only 2 flights for 3.5 Men 18+

    Then you get those "Colorado" teams that move just north into Wyoming or just west into Utah to play in those districts instead, making it easier to go to sectionals .... those amuse me.
     
  49. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    Usually 1 or two teams, can't blame them. Sometimes the team that is a handful of points from winning Sectionals is in your way from advancing out of your flight and you go toe to toe most years. Can only play at one level and team here so unlike back east where a player plays on 3-4 teams and has a chance with all of them.

    Utah has league play, MT and WY are the ones that don't at our level. Probably closer for some teams then traveling to Denver.


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  50. Startzel

    Startzel Hall of Fame

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    That's the only redeeming quality I can think of the current situation.

    I went to sectionals last year and imagine that has to be what nationals feels like. So it saves on that big cross country trip.
     
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