Next Gen players lack passion for the game

Otacon

Hall of Fame
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/01/07/australian-open-2018-mens-game-will-survive-departure-big-four/

One leading coach – who preferred not to be identified – told the Daily Telegraph that the young pretenders are made from very different stuff to their ageing predecessors.

“These kids are athletic,” he said, “and they can hit the ball super-hard because they’ve been trained well bio-mechanically. But the amazing thing is that they don’t actually watch tennis! If you sat the top 100 players in the world down and gave them a tennis quiz, the young guys would all be at the bottom.

“That’s so different to the Big Four, who lived and breathed the game and always have done. It’s a cultural thing: kids today just have so many distractions. That’s why I think we will see some good players in this generation rather than great ones. To be a great player, you need to be obsessed.”

Surely there must be a priceless gem amid all these rough diamonds? “The one guy who might be a little bit more like that is Shapovalov,” the coach replied. “But the rest don't have the patience. You watch them play a five-set match and their concentration is all over the shop, they're so up and down. Rallies will also get shorter in the next few years because of that. This will probably be Roger and Rafa's last big year and they will leave quite a hole when they go.”

It was a fascinating viewpoint, if a somewhat pessimistic one. So for a second opinion, I consulted Ivan Lendl – a man who should be perfectly placed to judge. Lendl has worked not only with Murray but also for the United States Tennis Association, where his teenage charges include Sebastian Korda, son of 1998 Australian Open champion Petr.

“I agree to a certain extent,” Lendl said. “There are so many distractions these days. But I believe very strongly that in the right circumstances – by which I mean the right upbringing and surroundings, combined with proper coaching on and off the court – we will see players in the future who are extremely focused.

“What you have to keep in mind is that that the Big Four are very special,” added Lendl, who was part of a golden generation of his own in the late 1980s. “Whatever sport you’re talking about, groups like that don’t come around too often.”
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
It was cringe worthy seeing Zverev pleading repeatedly with Federer to let the young players win something.

Fed smiled a couple of times, then told that he would gladly step aside if the youngsters nudged him , but still the dork Zverev did not get the message and kept repeating the same thing in conferences and interviews.
 

beltsman

Legend
It was cringe worthy seeing Zverev pleading repeatedly with Federer to let the young players win something.

Fed smiled a couple of times, then told that he would gladly step aside if the youngsters nudged him , but still the dork Zverev did not get the message and kept repeating the same thing in conferences and interviews.
Can't tell if this is a joke or if I missed something? I did see Fed having fun at an exho, while Zverev was crying and whining over nothing in a meaningless tournament.

But I agree with the OP.
 

NuBas

Legend
It was cringe worthy seeing Zverev pleading repeatedly with Federer to let the young players win something.

Fed smiled a couple of times, then told that he would gladly step aside if the youngsters nudged him , but still the dork Zverev did not get the message and kept repeating the same thing in conferences and interviews.
Really? I don't remember Federer saying that but I agree with Roger, in order to be the best you gotta beat the best. I'm surprised the anonymous coach did not mention Zverev cause he seems to be the most competitive and driven, though Shapovalov might be one who plays similar to Roger in sense that he enjoys and has fun playing. Might be good for Shapovalov that people are putting all pressure on Zverev and not him so he can play more freely.
 
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nikdom

Guest
It was cringe worthy seeing Zverev pleading repeatedly with Federer to let the young players win something.

Fed smiled a couple of times, then told that he would gladly step aside if the youngsters nudged him , but still the dork Zverev did not get the message and kept repeating the same thing in conferences and interviews.
Millenials have very little patience for anything and feel entitled to everything because "it's their time"

Don't know if it's because they've grown up with everything be easily available, especially as the digital age of 1-click ordering and instant gratification has obfuscated the muddier realities that still underpin human life, but I don't think the concept of earning one's dues makes sense to them.
 

EloQuent

G.O.A.T.
It was cringe worthy seeing Zverev pleading repeatedly with Federer to let the young players win something.

Fed smiled a couple of times, then told that he would gladly step aside if the youngsters nudged him , but still the dork Zverev did not get the message and kept repeating the same thing in conferences and interviews.
yeah it was dumb, especially since it's not Federer's fault Zverev keeps losing to people like Goffin and Sock and Kokkinakis, not to mention his abysmal record at slams.
 

EloQuent

G.O.A.T.
I think tennis is a victim of its own success. Top players have become famous and rich leading to better athletes signing up, and this leads to the more grinding, mechanical game we've been seeing.

Also I wish this coach would give a real quote instead of hiding behind anonymity
 

MeatTornado

Legend
Millenials have very little patience for anything and feel entitled to everything because "it's their time"

Don't know if it's because they've grown up with everything be easily available, especially as the digital age of 1-click ordering and instant gratification has obfuscated the muddier realities that still underpin human life, but I don't think the concept of earning one's dues makes sense to them.
Come again? My impatient millennial mind lost focus halfway through that unbelievably pretentious diatribe. :rolleyes:
 

Alba Barragan

Semi-Pro
Millenials have very little patience for anything and feel entitled to everything because "it's their time"

Don't know if it's because they've grown up with everything be easily available, especially as the digital age of 1-click ordering and instant gratification has obfuscated the muddier realities that still underpin human life, but I don't think the concept of earning one's dues makes sense to them.
The problem you mentioned of this generation (in which I have to include myself :oops:), is partially true. Most young people have little to no patience and much of it is because of the world we grew up in. Things around us tend to happen very fast, we are used to having almost immediate answers for everything, especially with technology. It's not lack of love or interest in something, and it's certainly not a lack of knowledge of the concept of "earning one's dues", but part of a tendency we have developed in which we are in many things at the same time. If something doesn't work, we jump to something else until the previous thing reacts. That may be favorable in some things, but in others, it's a huge disadvantage and it's definitely taking its toll in the development of attention and dedication to a single purpose for extended periods of time.

Really? I don't remember Federer saying that but I agree with Roger, in order to be the best ou gotta beat the best. I'm surprised the anonymous coach did not mention Zverev cause he seems to be the most competitive and driven, though Shapovalov might be one who plays similar to Roger in sense that he enjoys and has fun playing. Might be good for Shapovalov that people are putting all pressure on Zverev and not him so he can play more freely.
Agree. Of all the NextGen players, Zverev looks like the one who is really passionate about tennis, everyone around him says how obsessed he is with the sport and he does come across as someone who is genuinely interested in it. On the same line, something I find very interesting is how, of all the NextGen guys, he's the one who spends less time on social media :eek: which supports some people's argument that Instagram, Snapchat, and all those social media things are affecting young players.
 
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nikdom

Guest
Really? I don't remember Federer saying that but I agree with Roger, in order to be the best you gotta beat the best. I'm surprised the anonymous coach did not mention Zverev cause he seems to be the most competitive and driven, though Shapovalov might be one who plays similar to Roger in sense that he enjoys and has fun playing. Might be good for Shapovalov that people are putting all pressure on Zverev and not him so he can play more freely.
Did you see how his level fell off even in an exho after losing the first set 7-6 against Roger? It was like a switch went off in his brain in the second and third sets.

The tennis calendar is demanding and it's been that way for a long time.

If Zverev cannot muster the enthusiasm/competitive juices at the beginning of a new season to give it his all, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the year. Germany was in the Hopman cup finals because Angie carried the two of them.
 
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nikdom

Guest
The problem you mentioned of this generation (in which I have to include myself :oops:), is partially true. Most young people have little to no patience and much of it is because of the world we grew up in. Things around us tend to happen very fast, we are used to having almost immediate answers for everything, especially with technology. It's not lack of love or interest in something, and it's certainly not a lack of knowledge of the concept of "earning one's dues", but part of a tendency we have developed in which we are in many things at the same time. If something doesn't work, we jump to something else until the previous thing reacts. That may be favorable in some things, but in others, it's a huge disadvantage and it's definitely taking its toll in the development of attention and dedication to a single purpose for extended periods of time.



Agree. Of all the NextGen players, Zverev looks like the one who is really passionate about tennis, everyone around him says how obsessed he is with the sport and he does come across as someone who is genuinely interested in it. On the same line, something I find very interesting is how, of all the NextGen guys, he's the one who spends less time on social media :eek: which supports the argument that Instagram, Snapchat, and all those social media things are affecting young players.

When I say earning one's dues, I'm referring more to the sense of persistence than of somehow paying obeisance to an earlier generation (and we've all had generational blindspots)

You're right in that persistence perhaps was more natural in a world where information/results/entertainment weren't so readily available.

Zverev is definitely a great prospect, but it would be nice to see even more commitment from him match to match and not have the perplexing fadeaways he exhibits.
 

Russeljones

G.O.A.T.
Millenials have very little patience for anything and feel entitled to everything because "it's their time"

Don't know if it's because they've grown up with everything be easily available, especially as the digital age of 1-click ordering and instant gratification has obfuscated the muddier realities that still underpin human life, but I don't think the concept of earning one's dues makes sense to them.
This applies to many born in the 90s as well.
 

vex

Hall of Fame
yeah it was dumb, especially since it's not Federer's fault Zverev keeps losing to people like Goffin and Sock and Kokkinakis, not to mention his abysmal record at slams.
.... pretty hard to have an abysmal record at slams at age 20... like wut
 

EloQuent

G.O.A.T.
.... pretty hard to have an abysmal record at slams at age 20... like wut
He's considered the next big hope but hasn't made it to the second week. Point is, he complains that Federer makes him look bad, but he hasn't yet met Fed in a slam.
 

vex

Hall of Fame
He's considered the next big hope but hasn't made it to the second week. Point is, he complains that Federer makes him look bad, but he hasn't yet met Fed in a slam.
He's considered the next big hope b/c he's got alot of natural skills, he's dedicated to the game and he made it up to World #3 at 20. As a comparison, Fed hit #3 around 22(?) I believe. He's a baby. No one knows what his ceiling is, but he's almost certainly going to be a slam contender for a long while short of a major injury. Even being immature in some instances he's still miles ahead of most 20 year olds in maturity.
 

EloQuent

G.O.A.T.
He's considered the next big hope b/c he's got alot of natural skills, he's dedicated to the game and he made it up to World #3 at 20. As a comparison, Fed hit #3 around 22(?) I believe. He's a baby. No one knows what his ceiling is, but he's almost certainly going to be a slam contender for a long while short of a major injury. Even being immature in some instances he's still miles ahead of most 20 year olds in maturity.
that still has nothing to do with him blaming Fed for his own generation not succeeding
 

vex

Hall of Fame
that still has nothing to do with him blaming Fed for his own generation not succeeding
I dunno, I don't really care what dumb stuff kids say at age 20. I'll judge him when he's 22+. I mean, he's basically in awe of Federer right? Who isn't? Even Djokovic had to learn to believe he could go toe to toe with Fed. Takes time to develop that kinda mental strength in the face of a GOAT level guy.

Unless its like Bernie/Kygios level dumb where you're just like "aww man theres no hope"
 

EloQuent

G.O.A.T.
I dunno, I don't really care what dumb stuff kids say at age 20. I'll judge him when he's 22+. I mean, he's basically in awe of Federer right? Who isn't? Even Djokovic had to learn to believe he could go toe to toe with Fed. Takes time to develop that kinda mental strength in the face of a GOAT level guy.

Unless its like Bernie/Kygios level dumb where you're just like "aww man theres no hope"
my point is that he's losing to other players but then whines about Federer
 

Alba Barragan

Semi-Pro
Zverev is definitely a great prospect, but it would be nice to see even more commitment from him match to match and not have the perplexing fadeaways he exhibits.
I blame part of his problem on this thing:

The problem you mentioned of this generation (in which I have to include myself :oops:), is partially true. Most young people have little to no patience and much of it is because of the world we grew up in. Things around us tend to happen very fast, we are used to having almost immediate answers for everything, especially with technology. It's not lack of love or interest in something, and it's certainly not a lack of knowledge of the concept of "earning one's dues", but part of a tendency we have developed in which we are in many things at the same time. If something doesn't work, we jump to something else until the previous thing reacts. That may be favorable in some things, but in others, it's a huge disadvantage and it's definitely taking its toll in the development of attention and dedication to a single purpose for extended periods of time.
When things don't go as he planned he shuts down and doesn't try to work on solving wherever he's failing at, instead he's trying to move onto something else, but because he doesn't have a Plan B or something else to focus on it becomes a big mess that costs him matches. He needs to work on that asap, and not just staying focused when things are working out.
 

70後

Hall of Fame
Unlike others, I'm NOT looking for "talent" or height or power or service aces, or entertainment or "being exciting" or whatever. What I believe will determine the king of the next generation will be none of those things. It will be character.

I expect a guy like Tiafoe to turn out to be different from most of the rest of these "easily distracted" perhaps a little bit dissolute young men. TF is a guy whose mum reminds him of how lucky he has it, not to have been caught growing up in the terrible civil war of Sierra Leone where tens of thousands were killed, millions of peple displaced, men and boys of both opposing sides had their hands cut off by both the rebels and government forces. Both TF's mum and dad barely got out from that to get to the US. If parents coming from that background don't make you focus on how good he has it, and to concentrate on studies and career (tennis in his case), I don't know what will.
 
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vex

Hall of Fame
I blame part of his problem on this thing:



When things don't go as he planned he shuts down and doesn't try to work on solving wherever he's failing at, instead he's trying to move onto something else, but because he doesn't have a Plan B or something else to focus on it becomes a big mess that costs him matches. He needs to work on that asap, and not just staying focused when things are working out.
Now this is a good point. He doesn't seem to prob solve very well right now.
 

vex

Hall of Fame
Unlike others, I'm NOT looking for "talent" or height or power or service aces, or entertainment or "being exciting" or whatever. What I believe will determine the kind of the next generation will be none of those things. It will be character.

I expect a guy like Tiafoe to turn out to be different from most of the rest of these "easily distracted" perhaps a little dissolute young men. TF is a guy whose mum reminds him of how lucky he has it, not to have been caught growing up in the terrible civil war of Sierra Leone where tens of thousands were killed, millions of peple displaced, men and boys of both opposing sides had their hands cut off by both the rebels and government forces. Both TF's mum and dad barely got out from that to get to the US. If parents coming from that background don't make you focus on how good he has it in the US and to concentrate on studies and career (tennis in his case), I don't know what will.
Character isn't gonna fix those swings tho... He has some great skills but he has alot of mechanics to fix imo. I do like what I see of his work ethic.
 

70後

Hall of Fame
I meant king of the next g.

Lots of space for technique improvement. But hard to change a man's character.
 
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Alba Barragan

Semi-Pro
Unlike others, I'm NOT looking for "talent" or height or power or service aces, or entertainment or "being exciting" or whatever. What I believe will determine the kind of the next generation will be none of those things. It will be character.

I expect a guy like Tiafoe to turn out to be different from most of the rest of these "easily distracted" perhaps a little bit dissolute young men. TF is a guy whose mum reminds him of how lucky he has it, not to have been caught growing up in the terrible civil war of Sierra Leone where tens of thousands were killed, millions of peple displaced, men and boys of both opposing sides had their hands cut off by both the rebels and government forces. Both TF's mum and dad barely got out from that to get to the US. If parents coming from that background don't make you focus on how good he has it, and to concentrate on studies and career (tennis in his case), I don't know what will.
Even though I do agree with what @vex just said of "Character isn't gonna fix those swings", I do think (or want to believe) character is a big part of this sport. I'm pretty sure someone in this forum has said this before, but another problem of today's generation of tennis players (and I really want to put emphasis on the part of tennis players, because outside of this sport, this isn't a tendency) is how easy some things are for them. Not trying to generalize, but most players come from wealthy or at least financially comfortable families, most of them don't know what it's like to have to fight just to stand a chance on achieving something in life, much less surviving. I'm pretty sure if tennis wasn't such an exclusive sport and was more accessible to low-income kids in difficult environments we wouldn't be facing a crisis with young players, there wouldn't be so many cases where we doubt how committed and how much these players want to do this. Hopefully, TF can be an example of how character can make a difference.
 

NuBas

Legend
If Zverev cannot muster the enthusiasm/competitive juices at the beginning of a new season to give it his all, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the year. Germany was in the Hopman cup finals because Angie carried the two of them.
I am not gonna doubt Zverev so premature and I applaud him for setting standard for upcoming guys in both his successes and demeanor. He does things well on and off the court and does a bit more pressure on him to be next successor than others at the moment. I do understand though what you are saying about his performance at Hopman but I believe he is still trying to find his groove and his game, it could be good to have these losses here so he can learn from them. Again, keep in mind it was the Hopman Cup, no points involved and very close to the AO. Let's see how he performs at the really important events but I don't think he is one to lay down and lose confidence, he has strong belief and a great team around him so no reason to believe he will be a bust. Not sure he will be a double digit slam holder just yet but atm I predict he can get like 7-9.
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
He's considered the next big hope b/c he's got alot of natural skills, he's dedicated to the game and he made it up to World #3 at 20. As a comparison, Fed hit #3 around 22(?) I believe.
Yes, Federer first hit No. 3 at age 21 years, 11 months. He then reached No. 2 at exactly age 22, jumped back and forth between 2 and 3 for a little while, and hit No. 1 at about 22 years, 6 months.
 
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EloQuent

G.O.A.T.
Yes, Federer first hit No. 3 at age 21 years, 11 months. He then reached No. 2 at exactly age 22, jumped back and forth between 2 and 3 for a little while, and hit No. 1 at about 22 years, 6 months.
all good points, and you can add that there are players like Wawrinka who only hit a high level later.

it's unfair to say Sasha is a disappointment. it is fair to say that he's not there yet.
 
The young guns simply haven't proven that they've got what it takes, I'm afraid.

Yes, I'm afraid.

Afraid of a tennis tour without the big 4.
 

fedtennisphan

Hall of Fame
Ha! Ha! Are you guys that desperate for Zverev to succeed because it’s a lot of straining to explain his performance at HC. Why did he quit after winning the first against Federer? The excuse of it being an exho with AO coming up is lame because Federer is going to be in the same draw. It shows arrogance to claim that unless he gets hit by a car, he’s guaranteed to win a slam along with the constant comparisons to Federer at the same age. Somebody suggested he just congratulate Federer and Bencic instead of whining about a 36yr old Federer not letting younger players win.
 

EloQuent

G.O.A.T.
Ha! Ha! Are you guys that desperate for Zverev to succeed because it’s a lot of straining to explain his performance at HC. Why did he quit after winning the first against Federer? The excuse of it being an exho with AO coming up is lame because Federer is going to be in the same draw. It shows arrogance to claim that unless he gets hit by a car, he’s guaranteed to win a slam along with the constant comparisons to Federer at the same age. Somebody suggested he just congratulate Federer and Bencic instead of whining about a 36yr old Federer not letting younger players win.
But don't you know, it's Federer's fault that Zverev keeps losing to players like Kokkinakis
 

fedtennisphan

Hall of Fame
But don't you know, it's Federer's fault that Zverev keeps losing to players like Kokkinakis
His comment was odd and to do it in his speech is disrespectful because it’s not Federer’s job to step aside so brats like Zverev can have wins. I guess that “gift” Federer gave to him at last year’s HC wasn’t enough. Zverev believes too much in his own hype hence the whiny behavior when matches aren’t going his way.
 

Alba Barragan

Semi-Pro
I think some of the people in this forum are taking Zverev's comments out of context. The first time he said it during the Hopman Cup was during an on-court interview and the interviewer, as well as Alex and Angie, were joking and in a light mood after advancing to the final. The second time was indeed in his runner-up speech, but again, it wasn't in a form of reproach, he wasn't whining or anything of the sort. It seems to be more like an ongoing joke of how Roger keeps winning so easily against the youngsters even at this age, which, for how amazing we all know Roger is, is still something remarkable, and Roger didn't take it in any negative way (at least judging by his reactions). Zverev is a huge fan of Roger, they seem to get along well and it seems Roger is fond of him as well (again, just judging by their interactions on and off the court), so I find it hard to believe how Zverev could've wanted to disrespect his idol like that.
 
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Otacon

Hall of Fame
Well, I gotta agree with the unidentified coach because Shapovalov is the real deal to me. In fact, Shapo and Kyrgios are the ones who can save the game.
 

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
Well, I gotta agree with the unidentified coach because Shapovalov is the real deal to me. In fact, Shapo and Kyrgios are the ones who can save the game.
Kyrgios is obviously junk, and you have to be pretty oblivious to still be falling for that. But Shapovalov has a legit chance at double digit slams. As does Zverev.
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
I hope we see a few more years of Fed using the Next Gen as a footstool.

Maybe he will last one more generation so it makes 5 generations he has demolished :)
 

Alba Barragan

Semi-Pro
So are people born in the 80s. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic. All millennials.
As far as I know, Millennials are supposed to be from early 80's to mid 90's, which includes the tennis generations of Federer, Nadal/Djokovic/Murray, and LostGen. Most of the NextGen players are actually part of what is considered as Generation Z, born from the late 90's to early 2010's.
 
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clout

Hall of Fame
I personally agree with how there will be good players in the new gen, but not great/legendary players. These guys are talented but their so inconsistent (especially in a best of 5) that you don't know what to expect. For example, Dimitrov and Zverev won both the NA Masters titles this past summer, but neither of them made it out of the second round at the USO. This is why, although Grigor is among the top favs for the AO, I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if he was bounced early either, given how inconsistent he's shown to be. (hell grigor is gonna be 27 this year, in the past, that's the latter end of most people's prime; Nadal and Fed both had 13 slams by the end of their age 27 yr).
 

clout

Hall of Fame
As far as I know, Millennials are supposed to be from early 80's to mid 90's, which includes the tennis generations of Federer, Nadal/Djokovic/Murray, and LostGen. Most of the NextGen players are actually part of what is considered as Generation Z, born from the late 90's to early 2010's.
I'm actually not 100% sure about that, but from what I've heard in the past, millennial is usually referring to anyone born within the early 80's up until the turn of the millennium. That could be wrong though, so don't fully take my word for it. ;)
 
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