Nextgen lack ..

T

tex123

Hall of Fame
Killer Instincts.

The Nadals and Djokovics had tough and strict upbringing. They were raised by a different generation of parents. Have these youngsters been pampered too much by softy softy parents? They all seem to lack a killer instinct.

Just look how Alcaraz lost in Cincinnatti. He dropped his level as Djokovic was acting as if he was dead. Look at Sinner how foolishly he fought against Rune to his own disadvantage. They all shower praises after their losses. Nadal, Djoko, Delpo, Murray, Waw and Fed used to just respect each other but not roll over.

This softy softy approach by parents is producing a bunch of weak tennis players lacking in killer instinct. Agassi complains about his dad all the time but he would not have been the tennis player without him. I'm not saying parents should be like Agassi's dad but something in this parenting skills is producing these severely mentally malnourished youngsters.
 
The Big 3 were raised without social media, no cell phones, no computers (maybe some simple Amiga or Commodore 64). Basically they are Spartans compared to Z Gen. Novak trained in empty swimming pool during the war to avoid bomb shrapnel. Fed is little older and lived in peace but trained in Swiss Alps climbing high. Big altitude made his lungs and legs strong and helped his footwork. In the same time Nadal was learning hard lesson of being born on an isolated island in Mediterranean in mid 80s. All his pastime while growing up was playing tennis and running to the beach to help his uncle bring fishing nets to the shore. Working as a young sea boy fisherman helper made his both legs and arms strong and sharpened his character. Yeah, no sissy boys here. Those were three hardened 80s kids. Good old 80s.
 
Indigo said:
The Big 3 were raised without social media, no cell phones, no computers (maybe some simple Amiga or Commodore 64). Basically they are Spartans compared to Z Gen. Novak trained in empty swimming pool during the war to avoid bomb shrapnel. Fed is little older and lived in peace but trained in Swiss Alps climbing high. Big altitude made his lungs and legs strong and helped his footwork. In the same time Nadal was learning hard lesson of being born on an isolated island in Mediterranean in mid 80s. All his pastime while growing up was playing tennis and running to the beach to help his uncle bring fishing nets to the shore. Working as a young sea boy fisherman helper made his both legs and arms strong and sharpened his character. Yeah, no sissy boys here. Those were three hardened 80s kids. Good old 80s.
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Exactly. We grew up with FAR less distractions. It goes beyond tennis and sports though, the world is only going to get softer and softer. I would love to go way into the reasons why but if you know you know.
 
They have been raised with lots of easy resources for quick entertainment and satisfaction without thee need of hard work and frustration to reach them. A tennis match does not *usually* bring quick satisfaction when the opponent is tough to beat.

I mean, I work in scientific research I sort of see similar things in guys born in the late 1990s. Getting results in research often involves finding out that you have to solve new problems you did not realize before starting your research, learn new partially unrelated stuff, and fail many times. These generations do not tolerate frustration very well, and overcoming the difficulties is often seen as a burden surrounded by a sea of readily available distractions.
 
Fed is an exception as I believe he did not have a strict upbringing. Feel free to correct me on that one. Naturally talented. But he also grew up without TikTok. He had the killer instinct. These softy youngsters have none.
 
Rozroz said:
that's the truth tbh. all spoiled mentally weak brats (most of them anyway)
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Bring back real manliness 8-B

the-vaudevillains-entrance.gif

NFogQhC.gif
 
I don't know but I think there are too many speculations here. We haven't been in their head. Being world number two (and below) is still a tough job and I don't believe they could be there with any less degree of dog eat dog mentality in the world of ever intense competition. I'd rather attribute the current situation to the special guy we call Nole. I don't find this kind of post hoc analysts meaningful. Sorry.
 
jxs653 said:
I don't know but I think there are too many speculations here. We haven't been in their head. Being world number two (and below) is still a tough job and I don't believe they could be there with any less degree of dog eat dog mentality in the world of ever intense competition. I'd rather attribute the current situation to the special guy we call Nole. I don't find this kind of post hoc analysts meaningful. Sorry.
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So, why was his win rate so low when Fed and Nadal were his rivals? Add Waw, Delpo, Murray etc. The special one did not rack up 2xCYGS like years in their peak years. Everyone has some degree of competitive spirit. If one is no 1, some one is going to be no 2 but the gulf between no 1 and no 2 could be quite big.
 
tex123 said:
Killer Instincts.

The Nadals and Djokovics had tough and strict upbringing. They were raised by a different generation of parents. Have these youngsters been pampered too much by softy softy parents? They all seem to lack a killer instinct.

Just look how Alcaraz lost in Cincinnatti. He dropped his level as Djokovic was acting as if he was dead. Look at Sinner how foolishly he fought against Rune to his own disadvantage. They all shower praises after their losses. Nadal, Djoko, Delpo, Murray, Waw and Fed used to just respect each other but not roll over.

This softy softy approach by parents is producing a bunch of weak tennis players lacking in killer instinct. Agassi complains about his dad all the time but he would not have been the tennis player without him. I'm not saying parents should be like Agassi's dad but something in this parenting skills is producing these severely mentally malnourished youngsters.
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When young players shower praise on their opponent in defeat, I get the feeling they're really trying to elevate themselves. Sure I lost, but it took the greatest ever player playing at his absolute peak to beat me...
 
They can kill, they just don't deploy it at the right moment. The prefer to attack innocent umpires (Zed, Shapo), rather than other players.
 
I don't think it has a lot to do with parents. On the contrary, I have a feeling that in general the influence of parents is bigger than ever (or at least since a long time). The term "helicopter parents" isn't for nothing.

These days I almost never see a kid or teenager aggressively talking back to their parents. When we were in our youth 20 years ago, that was normal. And the way we sometimes talked about our parents when I was alone with one or two friends certainly isn't for quotation. Let's say it was in a way I would have never talked about said friends with my parents. The friends got way more respect than the parents.

Nowadays sometimes I organize tennis tournaments for kids here in my local club. When a kid misbehaves on the court, and the parents tell him/her to stop, then indeed they stop. What the parents want them to do, they will do. 20 years ago there was very little influence. At least for us on the court back then, even though it was on a low level, the match was always most important, while today for the kids it's still much more important if they stay on good terms with their parents. The parents are in control, while back then they rather tried to laugh it off when they got insulted. ;)
 
tex123 said:
Killer Instincts.

The Nadals and Djokovics had tough and strict upbringing. They were raised by a different generation of parents. Have these youngsters been pampered too much by softy softy parents? They all seem to lack a killer instinct.

Just look how Alcaraz lost in Cincinnatti. He dropped his level as Djokovic was acting as if he was dead. Look at Sinner how foolishly he fought against Rune to his own disadvantage. They all shower praises after their losses. Nadal, Djoko, Delpo, Murray, Waw and Fed used to just respect each other but not roll over.

This softy softy approach by parents is producing a bunch of weak tennis players lacking in killer instinct. Agassi complains about his dad all the time but he would not have been the tennis player without him. I'm not saying parents should be like Agassi's dad but something in this parenting skills is producing these severely mentally malnourished youngsters.
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40-15 three times show Federer lacked killer instinct.

Next gens are fine. Only fools who have their own agendas ask for sinner to gift a match to rune in order to save his body.

Last year Nole fought Medvedev because he wanted no man having mental edge vs him, he won the tournament. Sinner did the same. He is just not at the level of the GOAT.
 
CoolCoolCool said:
I love how everyone has a different explanation. Truth is nobody knows sh*t about what they lack.
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Exactly

All they lack is maturing physically. Seen all three with physical issues and Nole had same issues when he was 20/21.

As they get fitter and their shot tolerance increases they will keep winning big tournaments. All three , especially alcaraz , have games to be good enough. Alcaraz is atg and maybe the other two are multi slam winners.
 
thrust said:
IMO, a good part of the problem with some of the young players is that there is too much money in the game. Today, players can become millionaires by just being somewhere in the top 20 or so, which is why players like Kyrigos, Tsitsipas, Ruud and others are content where they are in the rankings.
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yea but i think it's something deeper. like the drive to win and be mentally stronger.. and especially playing ON YOUR OWN in a match,
not being dependent on your box reaction on every point, crying to your coach to solve problems.
you can actually feel how clueless some of them are when they have some difficulties (even Alcaraz).
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Exactly

All they lack is maturing physically. Seen all three with physical issues and Nole had same issues when he was 20/21.

As they get fitter and their shot tolerance increases they will keep winning big tournaments. All three , especially alcaraz , have games to be good enough. Alcaraz is atg and maybe the other two are multi slam winners.
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I mean you approved what I said and proceeded to talk about what they lack, that's kinda the opposite of my point lol.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
All they lack is maturing physically. Seen all three with physical issues and Nole had same issues when he was 20/21.
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Now explain what 32 year old Dimitrov, 30 year old Thiem, 28 year old Kyrgios, 27 year old Medvedev, 26 year old Zverev, 25 year old Tsitsipas, and 24 year old Ruud are lacking.
 
Next gen or whatever the alcaraz gen is lack nothing.

It's you ttw members who lack patience.

Raz is setting the records for youngest or youngest since big 3 for some time now.

Youngest USOpen champ since Pete
Youngest Wimbledon champ since Hewitt?
Youngest player to reach all 4 slam semis since Nole if he reaches AO semis

And sinner and rune are side shows for now. Rune is just 20 years old as well.
 
Indigo said:
The Big 3 were raised without social media, no cell phones, no computers (maybe some simple Amiga or Commodore 64). Basically they are Spartans compared to Z Gen. Novak trained in empty swimming pool during the war to avoid bomb shrapnel. Fed is little older and lived in peace but trained in Swiss Alps climbing high. Big altitude made his lungs and legs strong and helped his footwork. In the same time Nadal was learning hard lesson of being born on an isolated island in Mediterranean in mid 80s. All his pastime while growing up was playing tennis and running to the beach to help his uncle bring fishing nets to the shore. Working as a young sea boy fisherman helper made his both legs and arms strong and sharpened his character. Yeah, no sissy boys here. Those were three hardened 80s kids. Good old 80s.
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MichaelNadal said:
Exactly. We grew up with FAR less distractions. It goes beyond tennis and sports though, the world is only going to get softer and softer. I would love to go way into the reasons why but if you know you know.
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Every generation likes to crap on the generation(s) that come after them

Djokovic and Nadal are millennials, and we all know how Gen X and Boomers liked to crap on millennials
 
I think they simply lack talent. It's very likely that the best athletes have taken on other sports and thus tennis has been left with weaklings. Maybe there is a basketball player who could've been one of the ATGs of tennis, but was given to that sport instead.

Distractions have existed in every epoch, right now it just so happens to be social media.
 
ChrisRF said:
I don't think it has a lot to do with parents. On the contrary, I have a feeling that in general the influence of parents is bigger than ever (or at least since a long time). The term "helicopter parents" isn't for nothing.

These days I almost never see a kid or teenager aggressively talking back to their parents. When we were in our youth 20 years ago, that was normal. And the way we sometimes talked about our parents when I was alone with one or two friends certainly isn't for quotation. Let's say it was in a way I would have never talked about said friends with my parents. The friends got way more respect than the parents.

Nowadays sometimes I organize tennis tournaments for kids here in my local club. When a kid misbehaves on the court, and the parents tell him/her to stop, then indeed they stop. What the parents want them to do, they will do. 20 years ago there was very little influence. At least for us on the court back then, even though it was on a low level, the match was always most important, while today for the kids it's still much more important if they stay on good terms with their parents. The parents are in control, while back then they rather tried to laugh it off when they got insulted. ;)
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This is dead on. Kids now have no respect for themselves. Can’t even stand up to their own parents. Smdh
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Next gen or whatever the alcaraz gen is lack nothing.

It's you ttw members who lack patience.

Raz is setting the records for youngest or youngest since big 3 for some time now.

Youngest USOpen champ since Pete
Youngest Wimbledon champ since Hewitt?
Youngest player to reach all 4 slam semis since Nole if he reaches AO semis

And sinner and rune are side shows for now. Rune is just 20 years old as well.
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When was the last time you saw a No 1 player cramp and retire after two sets in the history of tennis?
When was the last time you saw the most "talented" players lose miserably in straight sets to a 36 year old?
How much patience we should have for 32 year old Dimitrov, 30 year old Thiem, 28 year old Kyrgios, 27 year old Medvedev, 26 year old Zverev, 25 year old Tsitsipas, and 24 year old Ruud? (Quoting @duaneeo )
How much patience should we have for Shapovalov and Aliassime?
When was the last time you saw a 36 year old player hand the no 1 ranking on a plate to a 20 year old only to watch the guy lose 8 consecutive tournaments in a row?
When was the last time you saw a prodigy failing to beat a 36 year old severely suffering from heatstroke being 1-0 up?
 
nachiket nolefam said:
40-15 three times show Federer lacked killer instinct.

Next gens are fine. Only fools who have their own agendas ask for sinner to gift a match to rune in order to save his body.

Last year Nole fought Medvedev because he wanted no man having mental edge vs him, he won the tournament. Sinner did the same. He is just not at the level of the GOAT.
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He had killer instincts to win 20 slams and 23 out of 50 meetings with Novak, did he not?
 
L4S10s said:
I still think it's growing up in the pre-poly era
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Agreed. The strongest gen is the generation that grew up seeing some of the older era - higher swingweights, gut strings, more courtspeed variety, more tactical variety - but also came late enough to benefit from modern tech (especially poly), training, and nutrition. The old gen barring Federer couldn’t adapt to the modern era and kids who didn’t see the older era didn’t develop as sound of technique and as much variety.

Distractions, money in the game play a role for sure but aren’t insurmountable. We’ve seen great young players rise in other sports
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Next gen or whatever the alcaraz gen is lack nothing.

It's you ttw members who lack patience.

Raz is setting the records for youngest or youngest since big 3 for some time now.

Youngest USOpen champ since Pete
Youngest Wimbledon champ since Hewitt?
Youngest player to reach all 4 slam semis since Nole if he reaches AO semis

And sinner and rune are side shows for now. Rune is just 20 years old as well.
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Carlos having a bit of a slump is normal for sure. But the situation seems so dire because it took 16 years to produce a player or his caliber and the rest of the field has proven to be totally ineffective
 
RelentlessAttack said:
Carlos having a bit of a slump is normal for sure. But the situation seems so dire because it took 16 years to produce a player or his caliber and the rest of the field has proven to be totally ineffective
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And same was for fedal in 2017.

Basically fedal fans are frustrated why Nole has not retired or declined yet.

Carlos has arrived and he will probably take the time needed by Roger or Nole to be as dominant. But he is ahead of schedule.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
And same was for fedal in 2017.

Basically fedal fans are frustrated why Nole has not retired or declined yet.

Carlos has arrived and he will probably take the time needed by Roger or Nole to be as dominant. But he is ahead of schedule.
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I have always included 2017 in the inflation era. As a Nadal fan it was obvious, Rafa far from his best towered over the non big 3 field
 
mike danny said:
I think they simply lack talent. It's very likely that the best athletes have taken on other sports and thus tennis has been left with weaklings. Maybe there is a basketball player who could've been one of the ATGs of tennis, but was given to that sport instead.

Distractions have existed in every epoch, right now it just so happens to be social media.
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We got a skiing reject called Sinner.
 
tex123 said:
When was the last time you saw a No 1 player cramp and retire after two sets in the history of tennis?
When was the last time you saw the most "talented" players lose miserably in straight sets to a 36 year old?
How much patience we should have for 32 year old Dimitrov, 30 year old Thiem, 28 year old Kyrgios, 27 year old Medvedev, 26 year old Zverev, 25 year old Tsitsipas, and 24 year old Ruud? (Quoting @duaneeo )
How much patience should we have for Shapovalov and Aliassime?
When was the last time you saw a 36 year old player hand the no 1 ranking on a plate to a 20 year old only to watch the guy lose 8 consecutive tournaments in a row?
When was the last time you saw a prodigy failing to beat a 36 year old severely suffering from heatstroke being 1-0 up?
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Answer please.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
And same was for fedal in 2017.

Basically fedal fans are frustrated why Nole has not retired or declined yet.

Carlos has arrived and he will probably take the time needed by Roger or Nole to be as dominant. But he is ahead of schedule.
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We've been frustrated for the last 4-5 years or more with low quality young players. The problem with you lot is everything has to do something with Djokovic. Your world revolves around that one guy.
 
So killer instinct should be Sinner deliberately losing from Rune ?
What are we advocating youngsters here ? To be crooked, dishonest, bad sportsmen, to cheat ?
Sinner is twice the man Nadal is just because he is playing and acting straight.
He doesn't need trophies won by cheating and avoiding big obstacles like Nadal always did, but just the opposite - if he wants to be Champion, he needs to go through tough process of winning against the best, like Djokovic did in the beginning of his career.
 
Less motivation due to quick reward is also a factor. The discussion that Dr. J (Julius Irving for the younglings) and Michael Jordan had in the late 1990's speaks volume about present sports. If you are already a multi-millionaire before you win many big titles, then your appetite for winning isn't the same as some of the old-school players. Remember, tennis players in the past didn't make much money in the sport and often had to cover their travel expenses or got little subsidization. In fact, there were regulations often prohibiting players in signing endorsement contracts and deals. Presently, many ATP and WTA players have made millions in endorsements and are happy in winning 1 or even 4 slams even when they can win much more. Ash Barty was honest about it after she made the money figured the love for the sport wasn't sufficient to merit the grind and turned to family and other endeavors.

In fairness, many of us would consider quitting our day job if was economically feasible. However, there is a small portion of people that won't quit if they really love what they do. I think players like Tilden (was rich guy after all his family members died didn't need to play and didn't make much early on), Laver, Billie Jean, Martina, Djokovic, Fed, and Nadal all really love competition and sport more than just money.
 
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