NextGen Ready to Takeover

[Meles]

With history as a guide the NextGen performance in majors this year should not be a total surprise (and they are close as Thiem went down in 5 sets to quality players at Wimby and US Open, Zverev the same at Auz, RG, and Wimbledon.) The real story for NextGen is their performance in the big tournaments outside the majors in 2017 (given strength of draw, Barcelona, Citi Open, and Beijing lumped in with Masters 1000 events):
IW: Thiem took Wawrinka to 3 sets (Wawrinka made final) and Kyrgios gets food poisoning - a small step for sure
Miami: Kygrios took tournament winner Federer to three sets - most were impressed
Montecarlo: Injury issue derails Pouille from making Final
Barcelona: Thiem in the final, but gets clobbered
Madrid: Thiem gives Rafa a solid match in final
Rome: Zverev trounces Djoko in final and Thiem annihilates Nadal
Citi Open: Zverev wins handily
Rogers Cup: Zverev beats Federer in final
Cincinnati: Kyrgios makes final beating Nadal along the way
Beijing: Krygios beats Zverev to make final

All in all this is a very impressive run since Barcelona with NextGen in the final of every big event outside of the majors. 7 STRAIGHT FINALS FOR NEXTGEN; NO BIG 4 IN CINCINNATI FINAL - NADAL ONLY MEMBER OF BIG 4 TO WIN ANY OF THESE FINALS (3). ZVEREV WITH 3 WINS FOR NEXTGEN.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

the timing of this thread is...... surprising

 

[Meles]

the timing of this thread is...... surprising

Not really. Pouille was lighting up Nadal badly in his first match in Beijing. Really makes me wonder what he might have done in Monte Carlo if a minor back issue hadn't derailed his momentum in the semi-final. Might Luca have beaten Nadal and derailed his whole clay season and beyond mojo.

 

[Sudacafan]

Now it seems it’s Nadal vs NextGen, and this can’t even be called a rivalry.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Not really. Pouille was lighting up Nadal badly in his first match in Beijing. Really makes me wonder what he might have done in Monte Carlo if a minor back issue hadn't derailed his momentum in the semi-final. Might Luca have beaten Nadal and derailed his whole clay season and beyond mojo.

if only lucas denadalized beijing in the 1st round...

 

[George Turner]

the next gen players you've listed have a combined record of two major semis and three major quarters between them.

Not that impressive, even Tomic the Tank Engine has reached a major quarter.

it's good to know the next gen are making inroads in the three set format though.

 

[Meles]

Now it seems it’s Nadal vs NextGen, and this can’t even be called a rivalry.

Sure Djokovic and Wawrinka haven't shown up for more beatings, but would it have mattered?
10/2017 R16 Indian Wells Masters Hard Nick Kyrgios Novak Djokovic 6-4 7-6(3) 3.30 - 1.35
9/2017 QF Acapulco Hard Nick Kyrgios Novak Djokovic 7-6(9) 7-5 4.00 - 1.22
19/2017 F Rome Masters Clay Alexander Zverev Novak Djokovic 6-4 6-3 4.50 - 1.20

Nole 0-3 vs Zverev and Kyrgios. Thiem trounced him at RG. Zverev 2-0 with Wawrinka and Nick beat Wawa last year.

Federer keeps eluding NextGen matches by luck of the draw and the trend has continued to Shanghai this week. Eventually he will play them with any luck.

 

[tennisaddict]

What version of the the thread is this one ? Lost count.

 

[Meles]

the next gen players you've listed have a combined record of two major semis and three major quarters between them.

Not that impressive, even Tomic the Tank Engine has reached a major quarter.

it's good to know the next gen are making inroads in the three set format though.

Yes, but this is often the case for new players. It takes longer to break in at majors. They've clearly crashed the Big 4 party outside of majors.

 

[tennisaddict]

Sure Djokovic and Wawrinka haven't shown up for more beatings, but would it have mattered?
10/2017 R16 Indian Wells Masters Hard Nick Kyrgios Novak Djokovic 6-4 7-6(3) 3.30 - 1.35
9/2017 QF Acapulco Hard Nick Kyrgios Novak Djokovic 7-6(9) 7-5 4.00 - 1.22
19/2017 F Rome Masters Clay Alexander Zverev Novak Djokovic 6-4 6-3 4.50 - 1.20

Nole 0-3 vs Zverev and Kyrgios. Thiem trounced him at RG. Zverev 2-0 with Wawrinka and Nick beat Wawa last year.

Federer keeps eluding NextGen matches by luck of the draw and the trend has continued to Shanghai this week. Eventually he will play them with any luck.

How soon you forget the Halle meeting ? I so wished Fed could draw Thiem here but let us hope he gets to meet him at Basel, Paris and WTF

 

[Meles]

What version of the the thread is this one ? Lost count.

@NatF created the original Meles thread. Just decided to start fresh and bring up the facts. Read'em and weep TA.

 

[Meles]

How soon you forget the Halle meeting ? I so wished Fed could draw Thiem here but let us hope he gets to meet him at Basel, Paris and WTF

Well of course Fraud won't even play on clay where he would be dismantled once again by Thiem.

 

[Meles]

How soon you forget the Halle meeting ? I so wished Fed could draw Thiem here but let us hope he gets to meet him at Basel, Paris and WTF

Could have included Halle, but really Queens had the bigger draw. Still another NextGen final now that you mention it.

 

[Meles]

Now it seems it’s Nadal vs NextGen, and this can’t even be called a rivalry.

Shaps 1-0 vs Nadal

 

[George Turner]

Yes, but this is often the case for new players. It takes longer to break in at majors. They've clearly crashed the Big 4 party outside of majors.

In that case i'm expecting one of the nextgen you've listed to win the world tour finals.

No excuses, there's no Steve Johnson, John Millman, Fernando Verdasco or Berna Coric in there

 

[NatF]

@NatF created the original Meles thread. Just decided to start fresh and bring up the facts. Read'em and weep TA.

I'm glad you're excite man. I just saw Nadal hammer NK in Bejing, catch it on the replay - should be some good stats to bring up for this thread

 

[Meles]

I'm glad you're excite man. I just saw Nadal hammer NK in Bejing, catch it on the replay - should be some good stats to bring up for this thread

I saw.

Fraud fans earlier this year on Nadal and NextGen

 

[aman92]

Only Zverev has really progressed this year....Thiem did well on Clay but he did the same last year too, outside of that he has been garbage. Kyrgios has done nothing to prove he has overcome his mental issues.Next year should be the one where they should target going deep runs in slams especially Zverev and hopefully Shapo can break into the top 20-30.

 

[gn]

Of course, NextGen are ready to take over. They are just waiting for Big 5 to die.

 

[Gazelle]

Can we call Meles a troll for making these type of threads? Maybe the more fun type, but still.

 

[Meles]

Only Zverev has really progressed this year....Thiem did well on Clay but he did the same last year too, outside of that he has been garbage. Kyrgios has done nothing to prove he has overcome his mental issues.Next year should be the one where they should target going deep runs in slams especially Zverev and hopefully Shapo can break into the top 20-30.

Well Zverev has exploded onto the tour this year; beyond progress.

Actually Thiem made a ton of progress on clay this year by any measure save tournaments won where he hit Nadal in every clay event of the main clay season. I'm a huge Thiem fan and his play off clay has been promising if not completely frustrating at the same time.

Agree on Kyrgios, but he has shown up for two straight big finals not counting the US Open. Kyrgios won three events last year and at Marseille and Japan Open he was on fire with the serve.

The rest of the NextGen as a whole has had a promising Summer and greatly surprised even me with their success.

 

[aman92]

Well Zverev has exploded onto the tour this year; beyond progress.

Actually Thiem made a ton of progress on clay this year by any measure save tournaments won where he hit Nadal in every clay event of the main clay season. I'm a huge Thiem fan and his play off clay has been promising if not completely frustrating at the same time.

Agree on Kyrgios, but he has shown up for two straight big finals not counting the US Open. Kyrgios won three events last year and at Marseille and Japan Open he was on fire with the serve.

The rest of the NextGen as a whole has had a promising Summer and greatly surprised even me with their success.

Thiem turns 25 next year, I don't think he can really be classified as a next gen anymore. If he doesn't make serious inroads in slams next year, I doubt he'll ever will. Zverev is the only one who I can earmark as a guaranteed multiple major champion

 

[Meles]

Can we call Meles a troll for making these type of threads? Maybe the more fun type, but still.

You have to have a catchy title Gazelle, but this is all substance. NextGen is ticking all the boxes this year in a big, big way and we see it in the tournament results outside of majors.

I've been mightily impressed by some of the youngest NextGen:
1. Tiafoe took Fed to five at US Open and has been a bit unlucky to not breakout this Summer with his draws. Clearly talented and Chris Evert was hyping him at Wimbledon big time. He's close to moving up to the top 40 where he'll get direct entry into every event.
2. Rublev - won on clay this Summer and nice US Open run and some big wins including Berdych, Sock, Goffin, Dimitrov, and Fognini on clay. Rublev has cracked the top 40 so should be a regular on tour now.
3. Kokkinakis - final of Los Cabos with a win over Berdych. Took out Raonic in Queens. Not bad for a guy back after 18 months of injury and sadly still fighting more injury issues.
4. Donaldson - getting close. Has dished out four bagels this Summer and moved up to 56 in the rankings which is getting him into a lot of events. Just took out Cuevas in Shanghai and will play Nadal next
5. Schwartzman - pushing the envelope, but just turned 25 and is having a great breakout year. Likely to be Fed's first opponent in Shanghai.
6. Shavopalov - just a huge talent and off the charts high points won on serve for his age. Already ranked 50 so should progress to direct entry everywhere by early 2018.

Of these Donaldson is the only one whose progress has been predictable; the rest have been meteoric.

 

[Meles]

Thiem turns 25 next year, I don't think he can really be classified as a next gen anymore. If he doesn't make serious inroads in slams next year, I doubt he'll ever will. Zverev is the only one who I can earmark as a guaranteed multiple major champion

Thiem was easily the 2nd best player on clay this year so he'll be a huge force at RG for years to come. To me even Dzumhur and Schwartzman make the grade as far as up and comers; having breakout years.

 

[Waspsting]

Good stuff as always, Meles

the timing of this thread is...... surprising

Can you imagine what it'd have been if Beijing had gone the other way?

 

[vanioMan]

Simply put - no. Not until they start doing serious damage where it matters the most - the Grand Slams.

 

[Meles]

Good stuff as always, Meles



Can you imagine what it'd have been if Beijing had gone the other way?

Exactly. Nadal looks to be set to have his best end of season ever. Only his unprecedented level is keeping the wolves at bay.

 

[George Turner]

You have to have a catchy title Gazelle, but this is all substance. NextGen is ticking all the boxes this year in a big, big way and we see it in the tournament results outside of majors.

I've been mightily impressed by some of the youngest NextGen:
1. Tiafoe took Fed to five at US Open and has been a bit unlucky to not breakout this Summer with his draws. Clearly talented and Chris Evert was hyping him at Wimbledon big time. He's close to moving up to the top 40 where he'll get direct entry into every event.
2. Rublev - won on clay this Summer and nice US Open run and some big wins including Berdych, Sock, Goffin, Dimitrov, and Fognini on clay. Rublev has cracked the top 40 so should be a regular on tour now.
3. Kokkinakis - final of Los Cabos with a win over Berdych. Took out Raonic in Queens. Not bad for a guy back after 18 months of injury and sadly still fighting more injury issues.
4. Donaldson - getting close. Has dished out four bagels this Summer and moved up to 56 in the rankings which is getting him into a lot of events. Just took out Cuevas in Shanghai and will play Nadal next
5. Schwartzman - pushing the envelope, but just turned 25 and is having a great breakout year. Likely to be Fed's first opponent in Shanghai.
6. Shavopalov - just a huge talent and off the charts high points won on serve for his age. Already ranked 50 so should progress to direct entry everywhere by early 2018.

Of these Donaldson is the only one whose progress has been predictable; the rest have been meteoric.

Your thread is funny. I'll give a more realistic assessment of those players.

Tiafoe; we know Federer was injured. And Evert hyping him doesn't mean diddy squat, John Mcenroe used to hype Donald Young as having hands as good as his own. We're still waiting for Donald Young to show it Maybe Tiafoe will do better but he has yet to produce and significant wins.
Rublev; Decent up and coming player, could be a top 20 or top 10 player. Not setting the world alight though.
Kokkinakis; Sadly his body is way too frail. Taylor Dent was the same; just had the wrong body for tennis.
Donaldson; has a 28-35 W-L record aged 20. Does not have the potential to win majors, game lacks weapons.
Schwartzman; lost to Baghdatis last year 6-0 6-0. I don't need to say more
Shapovalov; the most talented of those bunch by some margin, the only one with a good shot of winning majors imo.

Most the players you list will be steady players on the tour in future, not the world beater you amusingly portray them as

 

[Meles]

Simply put - no. Not until they start doing serious damage where it matters the most - the Grand Slams.

This is all the first step (outside of slams) and then the other shoe drops

 

[Meles]

Your thread is funny. I'll give a more realistic assessment of those players.

Tiafoe; we know Federer was injured. And Evert hyping him doesn't mean diddy squat, John Mcenroe used to hype Donald Young as having hands as good as his own. We're still waiting for Donald Young to show it Maybe Tiafoe will do better but he has yet to produce and significant wins.
Rublev; Decent up and coming player, could be a top 20 or top 10 player. Not setting the world alight though.
Kokkinakis; Sadly his body is way too frail. Taylor Dent was the same; just had the wrong body for tennis.
Donaldson; has a 28-35 W-L record aged 20. Does not have the potential to win majors, game lacks weapons.
Schwartzman; lost to Baghdatis last year 6-0 6-0. I don't need to say more
Shapovalov; the most talented of those bunch by some margin, the only one with a good shot of winning majors imo.

Most the players you list will be steady players on the tour in future, not the world beater you amusingly portray them as

Pretty much agree and wasn't touting them as future greats, only saying they had a great Summer. Two picks:
1. Schwartzman is a prime example of when a player finally gets the physical tools to compete. He's an extreme example because of his size, but his upper body strength is allowing him to complete really well on hard courts. Agree that he's unlikely to win slam, but given his level of late I wouldn't rule out RG down the road. Schwartzman is winning a ton of first serve points and well beyond what I thought was possible on hard courts given his height. What Schwartzman did last year is ancient history; his game is far better now.
2. Tiafoe - 6' 2" tall and speedy. He's the ideal size for a tennis player. I dislike his strokes, but he ticks all the boxes for progress for his age. One to watch very closely.

 

[TheAverageFedererFan]

Not yet in my opinion.

 

[Fabresque]

Thiem is not next gen, come on people.

 

[TheAverageFedererFan]

Thiem is the Grass Court GOAT.
Kyrgios is the Clay Court GOAT
Zverev is the Mentality GOAT
Kyrgios is the Talent Using GOAT

 

[ibbi]

This is all good and well, but I take issue with a few things...

Dominic Thiem is 24 years old, even in this era of tennis players remaining in their infancy until they're pushing 30 it seems a stretch to call that NextGen. This should be the prime of his career.

Also, saying they're ready to takeover is a strange title, considering most of them have repeatedly proven that doing it at 500 or 1000 level is still a few leaps of experience shy of being able to do it at the 4 biggest tournaments on the tennis calendar.

And why no love for Shapovalov? Is he the black sheep of your championing of the NextGen? In like a month he saw off Del Potro, Nadal, Tsonga, and fellow NextGeners Edmund and Medvedev.

 

[Nostradamus]

With history as a guide the NextGen performance in majors this year should not be a total surprise (and they are close as Thiem went down in 5 sets to quality players at Wimby and US Open, Zverev the same at Auz, RG, and Wimbledon.) The real story for NextGen is their performance in the big tournaments outside the majors in 2017 (given strength of draw, Barcelona, Citi Open, and Beijing lumped in with Masters 1000 events):
IW: Thiem took Wawrinka to 3 sets (Wawrinka made final) and Kyrgios gets food poisoning - a small step for sure
Miami: Kygrios took tournament winner Federer to three sets - most were impressed
Montecarlo: Injury issue derails Pouille from making Final
Barcelona: Thiem in the final, but gets clobbered
Madrid: Thiem gives Rafa a solid match in final
Rome: Zverev trounces Djoko in final and Thiem annihilates Nadal
Citi Open: Zverev wins handily
Rogers Cup: Zverev beats Federer in final
Cincinnati: Kyrgios makes final beating Nadal along the way
Beijing: Krygios beats Zverev to make final

All in all this is a very impressive run since Barcelona with NextGen in the final of every big event outside of the majors. 7 STRAIGHT FINALS FOR NEXTGEN; NO BIG 4 IN CINCINNATI FINAL - NADAL ONLY MEMBER OF BIG 4 TO WIN ANY OF THESE FINALS (3). ZVEREV WITH 3 WINS FOR NEXTGEN.

No,, not really. they are doing well cause Wawrinka, Novak and Andy is MIA.

 

[Meles]

This is all good and well, but I take issue with a few things...

Dominic Thiem is 24 years old, even in this era of tennis players remaining in their infancy until they're pushing 30 it seems a stretch to call that NextGen. This should be the prime of his career.

Also, saying they're ready to takeover is a strange title, considering most of them have repeatedly proven that doing it at 500 or 1000 level is still a few leaps of experience shy of being able to do it at the 4 biggest tournaments on the tennis calendar.

And why no love for Shapovalov? Is he the black sheep of your championing of the NextGen? In like a month he saw off Del Potro, Nadal, Tsonga, and fellow NextGeners Edmund and Medvedev.

Thiem just turned 24 and I'd include Schwartzman and Dzumher who have just really emerged this year. This was first of Thiem's early prime on clay by the stats.

Shaps is probably several years off, but Wimby always possible.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

They are soooooo close!
Just a few tweeks here and there and confidence.
We need Sasha in form, he has the right mind, and the ball will start rolling. He needs to play less doubles. He played below pair yesterday.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Thiem just turned 24 and I'd include Schwartzman and Dzumher who have just really emerged this year. This was first of Thiem's early prime on clay by the stats.

Shaps is probably several years off, but Wimby always possible.

I have not given up Nick!!! He must be SO FED UP WITH HIMSELF after today. Wimbledon is his.

 

[Meles]

No,, not really. they are doing well cause Wawrinka, Novak and Andy is MIA.

Andy maybe though Thiem probably has a good matchup with Murray. Djoko and Wawa; no. Zverev has never lost to them (3-0); Kyrgios almost the same, but he has lost to Wawrinka in the distant past. If Djoko ever gets back to 2011 to early 2016 form then he'd be more troublesome for sure.

 

[Meles]

They are soooooo close!
Just a few tweeks here and there and confidence.
We need Sasha in form, he has the right mind, and the ball will start rolling. He needs to play less doubles. He played below pair yesterday.

below Paire; that's really bad.

 

[Meles]

I have not given up Nick!!! He must be SO FED UP WITH HIMSELF after today. Wimbledon is his.

Nick has another workable draw to get a shot at Nadal in SF at Shanghai. If he makes it to Nadal again, to me this will show that McEnroe really did get through to him at Laver Cup. Kyrgios close to qualifying for WTF, but he can't stumble and make it.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Nick has another workable draw to get a shot at Nadal in SF at Shanghai. If he makes it to Nadal again, to me this will show that McEnroe really did get through to him at Laver Cup. Kyrgios close to qualifying for WTF, but he can't stumble and make it.

Not sure if he is there YET, think he has to be pretty fed up w his own whining to let go of it. Hope Im wrong though!
He is so damn close. And Im not sure McEnroe is the one for Nick. He would be better of w the seriousness in the Europe team.

Next year Laver cup should focus on putting the right young players no matter where they come from with the team that has best mentors for them. Sasha already has his work ethic in order now- He could be in the silly high five team, Thiem too. It would prob be fun for them, they are so serious from before.
Put Shapo and Nick with the goats, so they can properly see how goats are doing it and get focused.

 

[Shaolin]

Next Gen waiting for the Old Gen to finally let them take over…

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Hm I hate the Shapo nickname!!!

Maybe we can find something better for him? Its no shwong over it at all!!!

 

[Meles]

Thiem is not next gen, come on people.

Around here we kind of have LostGen and NextGen and really nothing in between. Dimitrov is around youngest lost gen player and just turned 26 in May. We probably need another term for all of these players once they fall out of ATP NextGen finals status. Get to work on a new name.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

below Paire; that's really bad.

Its gonna happen!

 

[Krish872007]

Great, there are actually some valid points here.

But they are STILL absent from the latter stages of Slams. And with Djokovic, Murray, Stan, Nishi, etc. returning in January they will need to massively elevate their games over 5 sets to shut out all the older guys at the 2018 Australian Open and going forward.

Slam Semi-Finals this year:

Australian Open: Federer vs. Wawrinka, Nadal vs. Dimitrov
French Open: Nadal vs. Thiem, Wawrinka vs. Murray
Wimbledon: Federer vs. Berdych, Cilic vs. Querrey
US Open: Nadal vs. Del Potro, Anderson vs. Carreno Busta

Now Thiem on clay seems to be the only constant with consecutive SF appearances at RG. PCB is not in this "NextGen" group strictly speaking, and he needed the entire bottom section to get incinerated to proceed that far, with 4 qualifiers in his first 4 rounds.

If we don't see at least 4 or 5 SF appearances from "NextGen" in 2018, then that's it for them

 

[Krish872007]

@Meles - Zverev can do it by the way, I do believe. He does move well for his height. He'll need to double his VO2 Aerobic Max over the off-season though, there's absolutely no way he should have lost in 5 sets to Raonic at Wimbledon in such fashion, a match he was dominating in the early stages.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

@Meles - Zverev can do it by the way, I do believe. He does move well for his height. He'll need to double his VO2 Aerobic Max over the off-season though, there's absolutely no way he should have lost in 5 sets to Raonic at Wimbledon in such fashion, a match he was dominating in the early stages.

I believe Sasha will win slams.

I do firmly believe Thiem will win RG, maybe already 2018.
Then Nick will scrape one or two.

Shaps- too early to say.

(too boring to AGAIN explain why, to back my statements, should be obvious for anyone here on this forum if they watch more than 2h a week of tenns. Showing my support)

 

[Mainad]

if only lucas denadalized beijing in the 1st round...

He should have done but choked on match point.