NextGen Ready to Takeover

[Krish872007]

I believe Sasha will win slams.

I do firmly believe Thiem will win RG, maybe already 2018.
Then Nick will scrape one or two.

Shaps- too early to say.

(too boring to AGAIN explain why, to back my statements, should be obvious for anyone here on this forum if they watch more than 2h a week of tenns. Showing my support)

Thiem for sure will get at least 1 Slam, it's just a matter of time. Will depend on Nadal and Djokovic's clay form in 2018. Some people are certain that whoever is winning now will continue winning everything for the next year, but 2018 is very much a clean slate. It doesn't take much to halt someone's momentum and there is absolutely no guarantee of Nadal being as good next year as he was in this clay season, so Thiem will have his chances.

Zverev - gotta get it done at Wimbledon or the Australian Open. I think his first one will come at either of these places.

I'll be bold and say 0 for Kyrgios - this mental issue or whatever he has is deep-rooted and I don't think he'll ever quite have the focus and application to last the full 2 weeks. Let's see

BUT: I think there is some super-young kid, maybe aged between 5-17 years, who will achieve more than all of the guys above. He'll be the next Tier 1 Great.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Thiem for sure will get at least 1 Slam, it's just a matter of time. Will depend on Nadal and Djokovic's clay form in 2018. Some people are certain that whoever is winning now will continue winning everything for the next year, but 2018 is very much a clean slate. It doesn't take much to halt someone's momentum and there is absolutely no guarantee of Nadal being as good next year as he was in this clay season, so Thiem will have his chances.

Zverev - gotta get it done at Wimbledon or the Australian Open. I think his first one will come at either of these places.

I'll be bold and say 0 for Kyrgios - this mental issue or whatever he has is deep-rooted and I don't think he'll ever quite have the focus and application to last the full 2 weeks. Let's see

BUT: I think there is some super-young kid, maybe aged between 5-17 years, who will achieve more than all of the guys above. He'll be the next Tier 1 Great.

Thiem beat in in shape Nadal on a CLAY court that fits him superb (Madrid "worst" clay for Rafa). Thiem was very below pair in RG vs Rafa. He was taken by how dominant Rafa is there. So many pro players saying beating Rafa in Chartier is the most difficult thing to do in the sport. Maybe "destiny" has it that next time(hopefully next year) they will be put in different halves and play an epic final.

Sasha and Thiem can beat top players, that is proven this year.

Here is what I think can happen:

Thiem- RG and USO (he was very close beating Delpo this year and played so well until Delpo very oddly came back in the match like he did, its difficult to suddenly handle that, was a very strange match) Remember, its more about the bounce, not the speed for a player like Thiem, like it is for Rafa

Sasha- He is a very focused one, typical he wants Wimbledon. He will not give up before he gets it. On the way to it he will win AO and maybe USO.

Nick- Wearing those tights shows tennis means a lot to him, lol. I mean, who would wear it if it didnt?
He is just too close to give up. Wimbledon for him


This young player to come..... hope that is Felix

 

[Meles]

Great, there are actually some valid points here.

But they are STILL absent from the latter stages of Slams. And with Djokovic, Murray, Stan, Nishi, etc. returning in January they will need to massively elevate their games over 5 sets to shut out all the older guys at the 2018 Australian Open and going forward.

Slam Semi-Finals this year:

Australian Open: Federer vs. Wawrinka, Nadal vs. Dimitrov
French Open: Nadal vs. Thiem, Wawrinka vs. Murray
Wimbledon: Federer vs. Berdych, Cilic vs. Querrey
US Open: Nadal vs. Del Potro, Anderson vs. Carreno Busta

Now Thiem on clay seems to be the only constant with consecutive SF appearances at RG. PCB is not in this "NextGen" group strictly speaking, and he needed the entire bottom section to get incinerated to proceed that far, with 4 qualifiers in his first 4 rounds.

Correct and PCB a bit of a fluke, but he does have slam stamina. If we look historically it takes time for most players to get their slam legs. The fact that NextGen has made the final or won 7 of the last big events outside of majors is the usual pattern perhaps hastened a bit early by Djokoray's unexpected troubles this year.

Thiem has made a jump in level this year (not as noticeable on hard courts) and seems to be getting the legs necessary to sustain his grueling game. Zverev would make the jump as early as next year. As he gets stronger his serve game improves which improves the efficiency of his overall game and it's a bit like a feedback loop for him. Kyrgios is like a broken toy at slams that suddenly could be fixed and start winning (or stay broken.)

It may be years for all but Thiem. If we look at the last year and say we had basically no big 4 we'd might have had the following:
Dimitrov winning Auz, but Zverev at best SF.
Thiem wins RG or at worst loses to Wawrinka in final.
Wimby - hopefully Cilic
US Open - Anderson

This could easily be the state of the game next year and you raise a valid point on whether Zverev or Kyrgios would be ready to step up at a major. Kyrgios easily could as he's the age and has had made some QFs in the past; a little like Fed coming into 2003, but not as healthy. Murray rose quickly in 2008 to make a US Open final so to my mind he was ready then and that was the year of his 21st birthday; easy peasy for Zverev next year.

So they can do it. Thiem could easily win RG and Nadal is due for a physical meltdown of some kind making Thiem a near favorite. Kyrgios has enough of a track record in Australia (ditto Zverev), but Nadal may still be lingering. Anything could happen at Wimbledon. By the time of US Open the same is true. Thiem has switched to a schedule more oriented to the big titles. Zverev and Kyrgios probably follow suit in 2018.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

Andy maybe though Thiem probably has a good matchup with Murray. Djoko and Wawa; no. Zverev has never lost to them (3-0); Kyrgios almost the same, but he has lost to Wawrinka in the distant past. If Djoko ever gets back to 2011 to early 2016 form then he'd be more troublesome for sure.

 

[accidental]

Thiem is 24 years old.
Pouille is 23
Kyrgios is 22

These guys aren't #nextgen anymore. They should actually be contending for and winning big tournaments by now

 

[reaper]

Around here we kind of have LostGen and NextGen and really nothing in between. Dimitrov is around youngest lost gen player and just turned 26 in May. We probably need another term for all of these players once they fall out of ATP NextGen finals status. Get to work on a new name.

You can probably extend the Lost Gen moniker out to those born up to 1996. Players born 1997 and after might achieve something of note.

 

[toby55555]

The generation that will break the stranglehold of the big 3+1 hasn't been born yet.

 

[tennisaddict]

You have to have a catchy title Gazelle, but this is all substance. NextGen is ticking all the boxes this year in a big, big way and we see it in the tournament results outside of majors.

I've been mightily impressed by some of the youngest NextGen:
1. Tiafoe took Fed to five at US Open and has been a bit unlucky to not breakout this Summer with his draws. Clearly talented and Chris Evert was hyping him at Wimbledon big time. He's close to moving up to the top 40 where he'll get direct entry into every event.
2. Rublev - won on clay this Summer and nice US Open run and some big wins including Berdych, Sock, Goffin, Dimitrov, and Fognini on clay. Rublev has cracked the top 40 so should be a regular on tour now.
3. Kokkinakis - final of Los Cabos with a win over Berdych. Took out Raonic in Queens. Not bad for a guy back after 18 months of injury and sadly still fighting more injury issues.
4. Donaldson - getting close. Has dished out four bagels this Summer and moved up to 56 in the rankings which is getting him into a lot of events. Just took out Cuevas in Shanghai and will play Nadal next
5. Schwartzman - pushing the envelope, but just turned 25 and is having a great breakout year. Likely to be Fed's first opponent in Shanghai.
6. Shavopalov - just a huge talent and off the charts high points won on serve for his age. Already ranked 50 so should progress to direct entry everywhere by early 2018.

Of these Donaldson is the only one whose progress has been predictable; the rest have been meteoric.

Next year, Thiem is 25 and Schwartzman is 26. They are next gen now , LOL !!

Rafa and Fed won like 10 majors by that age.

 

[veroniquem]

Thiem is 24 years old.
Pouille is 23
Kyrgios is 22

These guys aren't #nextgen anymore. They should actually be contending for and winning big tournaments by now

I would let KG in. He doesn't have the maturity of a 22 anyway ha ha.
I agree with Pouille and Thiem, they're more "lost gen" than next gen.

 

[mike danny]

Take over what? The suckiness left by the Lost Gen?

 

[Goosehead]

Thiem is 24 years old.
Pouille is 23
Kyrgios is 22

These guys aren't #nextgen anymore. They should actually be contending for and winning big tournaments by now

those blokes were never 'next gen' anyway, seeing as this atp invention is in its 1st season. all are too old for it.

maybe they were young guns but now moving into middle aged guns. tennis wise.

 

[veroniquem]

Next gen :
Kyrgios, Edmund, Khachanov, Coric, Chung, Donaldson, Medvedev, Zverev, Rublev, Fritz, Tiafoe, Shapovalov. (95-99)

Lost gen:
Raonic, Goffin, Dimitrov, Busta, Tomic, Sock, Harrison, Schwartz, Dzum, Vesely, Thiem, Pouille. (90-94)

 

[BeatlesFan]

Thiem was easily the 2nd best player on clay this year

Strongly dissent. Second place has to go to the guy who bagged a Masters 1000 event and defeated an ATG in the final in Rome. It has to be Zverev.

 

[Sudacafan]

You have to have a catchy title Gazelle, but this is all substance. NextGen is ticking all the boxes this year in a big, big way and we see it in the tournament results outside of majors.

I've been mightily impressed by some of the youngest NextGen:
1. Tiafoe took Fed to five at US Open and has been a bit unlucky to not breakout this Summer with his draws. Clearly talented and Chris Evert was hyping him at Wimbledon big time. He's close to moving up to the top 40 where he'll get direct entry into every event.
2. Rublev - won on clay this Summer and nice US Open run and some big wins including Berdych, Sock, Goffin, Dimitrov, and Fognini on clay. Rublev has cracked the top 40 so should be a regular on tour now.
3. Kokkinakis - final of Los Cabos with a win over Berdych. Took out Raonic in Queens. Not bad for a guy back after 18 months of injury and sadly still fighting more injury issues.
4. Donaldson - getting close. Has dished out four bagels this Summer and moved up to 56 in the rankings which is getting him into a lot of events. Just took out Cuevas in Shanghai and will play Nadal next
5. Schwartzman - pushing the envelope, but just turned 25 and is having a great breakout year. Likely to be Fed's first opponent in Shanghai.
6. Shavopalov - just a huge talent and off the charts high points won on serve for his age. Already ranked 50 so should progress to direct entry everywhere by early 2018.

Of these Donaldson is the only one whose progress has been predictable; the rest have been meteoric.

Meaningful boxes to be ticked are grand slams and majors.
So far NextGen ticked 3 out of 11 boxes, none of them slams, and I am including Dimitrov as NextGen for this count, which he is actually not.

 

[Meles]

You can probably extend the Lost Gen moniker out to those born up to 1996. Players born 1997 and after might achieve something of note.

Sorry, but not quite ready to call Kyrgios and Thiem lost. You might as well throw Delpo and Cilic under the bus while you're at it.

 

[Meles]

Next year, Thiem is 25 and Schwartzman is 26. They are next gen now , LOL !!

Rafa and Fed won like 10 majors by that age.

Next in line for greatness for sure

 

[Meles]

Strongly dissent. Second place has to go to the guy who bagged a Masters 1000 event and defeated an ATG in the final in Rome. It has to be Zverev.

The problem with this call is a match in Monte Carlo with the Bull and the quick RG exit. Wawrinka waltzes into 3rd for me pretty decisively. Have little doubt that Zverev will be big trouble next year on clay for Thiem, but doubtful with Nadal. That may be a contest for first if the Bull falls from the saddle.

 

[Meles]

Meaningful boxes to be ticked are grand slams and majors.
So far NextGen ticked 3 out of 11 boxes, none of them slams, and I am including Dimitrov as NextGen for this count, which he is actually not.

What? The fact is since the beginning of May the Next group of players have ascended to the top of the game outside of majors.

Do you mean to say that Masters 1000 are meaningless? Barcelona was going to have a better draw than Monte Carlo until Nishikori went belly up at the last gasp. The Citi Open was loaded with the best hard court players, unlike the Masters 1000s which had the usual clay denizens in the draw. Beijing was similar to the Citi Open (plus Nadal) as many of the clay courters have waited to come over for Shanghai.

 

[Meles]

Next gen :
Kyrgios, Edmund, Khachanov, Coric, Chung, Donaldson, Medvedev, Zverev, Rublev, Fritz, Tiafoe, Shapovalov. (95-99)

Lost gen:
Raonic, Goffin, Dimitrov, Busta, Tomic, Sock, Harrison, Schwartz, Dzum, Vesely, Thiem, Pouille. (90-94)

How can someone be lost when they just showed up on the scene last year in the main ATP events?

ATP's definition will do for NextGen, so no Kyrgios

I dub the age group above NextGen the Young Guns! Not classified by age, but more progression on tour (as in rising):
Young Guns!:
Kyrgios
Pouille
Thiem
Dzum
Schwartz
Sock
Busta
Kokkinakis

Lost Gen generally have fallen:
Goffin - redeemed with his play from late 2016 til now
Dimitrov - ditto
Raonic, Nishikori - other core members
those who have fallen after some time on tour also included, so Tomic, Paire, Vesely, Harrison

 

[Username_]

the next gen won't ever be considered dominant until they can take out fed at wimbledon, nadal at RG, and djokovic at the aus handily

until that happens they're just waiting for them to retire

 

[Meles]

Nice start today for Rublev, Chung, Tiafoe, Edmund, and Tsitsipas. Five already into the final 32.

 

[veroniquem]

How can someone be lost when they just showed up on the scene last year in the main ATP events?

Late bloomers?
Not an excuse
Doesn't make them any younger
Pouille with 3 250 titles at the age of 23 seems like a textbook lost gen to me (never mind Raonic who has 1 500 and a handful of 250 to his name at the grand old age of 27!!! and Raonic is the lost gen who's hit the highest ranking!!! )
Lost gen = underachievers. Let's see if next gen will fare any better. (20 year old Z has already done better than all lost gen combined, that's promising ha ha)

 

[AngryBirds]

Now it seems it’s Nadal vs NextGen, and this can’t even be called a rivalry.

It seems the nextgen has matchup issue with Nadal. Lol

 

[cc0509]

I dub the age group above NextGen the Young Guns! Not classified by age, but more progression on tour (as in rising):
Young Guns!:
Kyrgios
Pouille
Thiem
Dzum
Schwartz
Sock
Busta
Kokkinakis

None of those players you mentioned above are going to do "eff" all. Kyrgios is the most talented but he simply doesn't want it. The rest of those players are nothing special IMO.

 

[Goosehead]

since when was goffin lost gen ?. I don't remember anyone saying a few years back.."wow goffin could win majors in future"..

..and lets ease up on the thiem hate for a bit also.

 

[tennis_pro]

Take over what? The dump that the last generation made?

 

[Poisoned Slice]

Nice start today for Rublev, Chung, Tiafoe, Edmund, and Tsitsipas. Five already into the final 32.

 

[DismalFuture]

Nice start today for Rublev, Chung, Tiafoe, Edmund, and Tsitsipas. Five already into the final 32.

Amazing . Now watch them all lose in their next match .

 

[veroniquem]

since when was goffin lost gen ?. I don't remember anyone saying a few years back.."wow goffin could win majors in future"..

..and lets ease up on the thiem hate for a bit also.

"lost gen" is just a nickname for that generation of players who got stifled by the big 4. It just means that in general they couldn't stand up to them.

 

[veroniquem]

Amazing . Now watch them all lose in their next match .

Your Avie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ha ha ha too funny

 

[Meles]

Amazing . Now watch them all lose in their next match .

It may well be but Chung and Tsitsipas were pleasant surprises.

 

[Xemi666]

"Next gen" dropping like flies in Shangai.

 

[George Turner]

It may well be but Chung and Tsitsipas were pleasant surprises.

I believe Tsitsipas could be a star of the future who no one has yet heard of.

Most of the other next gen are out already!

 

[Paul Harman]

Fast forward to AUS 2018, the "when-gen" are going to feel the fury of Muzzjokowrinka coming back up the rankings. Can't wait

 

[Meles]

Fast forward to AUS 2018, the "when-gen" are going to feel the fury of Muzzjokowrinka coming back up the rankings. Can't wait

That's the problem with lower ranking as they may hit Fedal pretty quickly.

 

[Meles]

Well only the big cat Zverev left at Shanghai

 

[reaper]

There was a fair bit of Nextgen choking last night. Tiafoe led Querrey 5-0 in the 2nd set tie break and lost it, Tsitsipas had multiple set points on his serve in the second set tie break against Isner and lost it as well.

 

[TahoeTennis]

They've been ready for 2 years now, but will have to wait until next year to start emerging from their hibernation egg.

 

[metsman]

Sorry, but not quite ready to call Kyrgios and Thiem lost. You might as well throw Delpo and Cilic under the bus while you're at it.

Cilic was never that hyped, Delpo is only "lost" because of injuries and even then he has had solid success despite some garbage draw luck earlier in the year (if not for which he might be back in the top 10). Delpo achieved more important things at 20 than Zverev, Kyrgios, and Thiem have in their whole career.

Thiem is a 1 trick pony, Kyrgios is spiraling out of control.

 

[Meles]

They've been ready for 2 years now, but will have to wait until next year to start emerging from their hibernation egg.

Versus Djoko NextGen 3-0:
10/2017 R16 Indian Wells Masters Hard Nick Kyrgios Novak Djokovic 6-4 7-6(3) 3.30 - 1.35
9/2017 QF Acapulco Hard Nick Kyrgios Novak Djokovic 7-6(9) 7-5 4.00 - 1.22
19/2017 F Rome Masters Clay Alexander Zverev Novak Djokovic 6-4 6-3 4.50 - 1.20
plus a win for Zverev at Boodles Exho

Versus Federer NextGen 3-3:
32/2017 F Canadian Masters Hard Alexander Zverev Roger Federer 6-3 6-4 3.40 - 1.33
25/2017 F Halle Grass Roger Federer Alexander Zverev 6-1 6-3 1.44 - 2.75
24/2016 SF Halle Grass Alexander Zverev Roger Federer 7-6(4) 5-7 6-3 3.75 - 1.28
18/2016 R32 Rome Masters Clay Roger Federer Alexander Zverev 6-3 7-5 1.28 - 3.55
12/2017 SF Miami Masters Hard Roger Federer Nick Kyrgios 7-6(9) 6-7(9) 7-6(5) 1.53 - 2.50
18/2015 R32 Madrid Masters Clay Nick Kyrgios Roger Federer 6-7(2) 7-6(5) 7-6(12)

NextGen 6-3. 2017 only 4-1

 

[Meles]

Cilic was never that hyped, Delpo is only "lost" because of injuries and even then he has had solid success despite some garbage draw luck earlier in the year (if not for which he might be back in the top 10). Delpo achieved more important things at 20 than Zverev, Kyrgios, and Thiem have in their whole career.

Thiem is a 1 trick pony, Kyrgios is spiraling out of control.

At the same age as Zverev today Delpo had five minor titles and a final at Japan Open. Zverev has 6 titles and 3 finals (two at 500 level). Zverev has two masters 1000s and and ATP 500 in the win column.

AND ZVEREV PLAYS DELPO FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ABOUT AN HOUR

 

[Meles]

There was a fair bit of Nextgen choking last night. Tiafoe led Querrey 5-0 in the 2nd set tie break and lost it, Tsitsipas had multiple set points on his serve in the second set tie break against Isner and lost it as well.

Need to check that out on replay.

 

[metsman]

At the same age as Zverev today Delpo had five minor titles and a final at Japan Open. Zverev has 6 titles and 3 finals (two at 500 level). Zverev has two masters 1000s and and ATP 500 in the win column.

AND ZVEREV PLAYS DELPO FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ABOUT AN HOUR

I said important things, slam, slam SF(5 setter against desperate Fed), 2 slam QF, big wins in slams, WTF final. If Delpo faced garbage big 3 in his masters he'd have won 2 in 2009 as well if not more.

 

[-snake-]

Bump....

 

[Purplemonster]

Well Zverev has exploded onto the tour this year; beyond progress.

Actually Thiem made a ton of progress on clay this year by any measure save tournaments won where he hit Nadal in every clay event of the main clay season. I'm a huge Thiem fan and his play off clay has been promising if not completely frustrating at the same time.

Agree on Kyrgios, but he has shown up for two straight big finals not counting the US Open. Kyrgios won three events last year and at Marseille and Japan Open he was on fire with the serve.

The rest of the NextGen as a whole has had a promising Summer and greatly surprised even me with their success.

Yes Klown Kyrgios is just happy to get to finals. Why exclude a tournament that matters like the US Open ??

 

[Gary Duane]

With history as a guide the NextGen performance in majors this year should not be a total surprise (and they are close as Thiem went down in 5 sets to quality players at Wimby and US Open, Zverev the same at Auz, RG, and Wimbledon.) The real story for NextGen is their performance in the big tournaments outside the majors in 2017 (given strength of draw, Barcelona, Citi Open, and Beijing lumped in with Masters 1000 events):
IW: Thiem took Wawrinka to 3 sets (Wawrinka made final) and Kyrgios gets food poisoning - a small step for sure
Miami: Kygrios took tournament winner Federer to three sets - most were impressed
Montecarlo: Injury issue derails Pouille from making Final
Barcelona: Thiem in the final, but gets clobbered
Madrid: Thiem gives Rafa a solid match in final
Rome: Zverev trounces Djoko in final and Thiem annihilates Nadal
Citi Open: Zverev wins handily
Rogers Cup: Zverev beats Federer in final
Cincinnati: Kyrgios makes final beating Nadal along the way
Beijing: Krygios beats Zverev to make final

All in all this is a very impressive run since Barcelona with NextGen in the final of every big event outside of the majors. 7 STRAIGHT FINALS FOR NEXTGEN; NO BIG 4 IN CINCINNATI FINAL - NADAL ONLY MEMBER OF BIG 4 TO WIN ANY OF THESE FINALS (3). ZVEREV WITH 3 WINS FOR NEXTGEN.

My view is more general. The Big Five - or Big Four - or Big Three - are aging. The fact that two of them sucked up all the majors this year is likely the end of or near the end of an era.

I simply don't think it can go on this way.

The players below are starting to smell blood, and once the dam breaks expect a flood.

Everything changes when a bunch of players think they have a shot at the top. At this point something like the early 2000s would be a refreshing change!

 

[Meles]

My view is more general. The Big Five - or Big Four - or Big Three - are aging. The fact that two of them sucked up all the majors this year is likely the end of or near the end of an era.

I simply don't think it can go on this way.

The players below are starting to smell blood, and once the dam breaks expect a flood.

Everything changes when a bunch of players think they have a shot at the top. At this point something like the early 2000s would be a refreshing change!

Gotta say old Delpo (not as old as Big 5) looks ready to stick his fingers in some of the cracks. He just prevailed over Zverev's A game. He's trouble enough for Thiemerev.

 

[Meles]

I said important things, slam, slam SF(5 setter against desperate Fed), 2 slam QF, big wins in slams, WTF final. If Delpo faced garbage big 3 in his masters he'd have won 2 in 2009 as well if not more.

Delpo had not done any of these things except the slam QFs by the same age as Zverev is now, so you're comparison is ridiculous. Delpo at age 20 beat Tsonga at WTF.

 

[Meles]

There was a fair bit of Nextgen choking last night. Tiafoe led Querrey 5-0 in the 2nd set tie break and lost it, Tsitsipas had multiple set points on his serve in the second set tie break against Isner and lost it as well.

Were these matches televised? Both were moved to smaller indoor courts so were not available for viewing best I can tell. Does this mean you thrown around the word choking without having watched a match?

 

[Meles]

Bump....

The whelps are completely knocked out of Shanghai. Dimitrough the youngest left.