soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
If the 1st OT possession ends in a offensive TD/defensive TD/special teams TD/safety, game over. Blame the Packers for playing not to lose and for failing to take advantage of all the gifts Wilson was handing to them.
NFL '14: The Road To Rozelle's Desert Treasure!
- Thread starter stringertom
- Start date
If the 1st OT possession ends in a offensive TD/defensive TD/special teams TD/safety, game over. Blame the Packers for playing not to lose and for failing to take advantage of all the gifts Wilson was handing to them.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
I agree. Green Bay played it too conservative by not going for it from the one given how their defense was shutting down Seattle.
Contrast to Seattle who tried a fake field goal down 16-0.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Yeah. Packers gave that one away. Between the TO's and all the stupid penalties they should have had the game clinched.
Credit to the Seahawks for not giving up.
And respect to Aaron Rodgers - an MLB pitcher with a lesser injury would have shut it down for the year. And they have guaranteed contracts! (and no 300lbers trying to crush them).
Credit to the Seahawks for not giving up.
And respect to Aaron Rodgers - an MLB pitcher with a lesser injury would have shut it down for the year. And they have guaranteed contracts! (and no 300lbers trying to crush them).
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
Agreed, his class shines through in whatever he does. Looking at the mistakes the team made, maybe this year was one too early for them. The experience, knowing fortune favours the brave and getting the top seed next year? That could be their time. No doubt it hurts like hell now, especically losing in that way, but there are alot of positives and learning opportunities.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Yep. But I don't feel too bad.
Packers played a good 55-minute game but blew it in the last five minutes. You gotta play hard for the full 60 minutes.
The last five minutes was really poor and really dumb for Green Bay.
The Packers did not deserve to win. (I hope they learned a few lessons to take away for the future.)
T1000
Legend
i'm hoping this is enough to finally convince tt that mm and capers need to gfto of green bay. capers has been terrible his entire career at gb minus one lucky year when they won the sb. he draws up the worst coverage schemes in the league and that prevent d hasn't worked one time he's been here. there was zero reason to call it on 3rd and 19. mm is a garbage play caller i have no idea how he hasn't been fired yet. he abandons whatever works to try to switch things up all the f'ing time. then 4th and goal twice, kicks fgs both times. dumb decisions. he and capers get bailed out by aaron way too much. they should've been out the door a long time ago.
the secondary is also pathetic. two lucky ints, played soft the entire game and it finally hurt them in the last 10 mins. surprised they weren't burned more often. nelson and cobb dropped like 30 passes today, nelson has been terrible since the buffalo game. i really have no idea how the packers even got this far tbh.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
The 2-pointer was an absolute miracle, throwing from almost the seat of his pants across the whole field. It seemed to be in the air forever...I was waiting for a fair-catch signal!
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Sorry to disappoint, but McCarthy just signed a new contract a few months ago.
Thats way too many IFs for me. Should be like College both teams get the ball and if you can't match my TD you lose.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
The game would take 5+ hours to end. Not to mention all the stat padding for QBs.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
One lesson they will NEVER learn is that a "prevent defense" often loses the game.
They were up 16-0 in the third quarter and then went into a prevent defense on third and 19, instead of continuing to do what had been working the whole game.
The prevent defense has it's place, but it is overused, and I am convinced that it loses many games. But overly conservative coaches like McCarthy who play not to lose, will never figure that out.
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Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
That was inexcusable.
Almost seemed like the Packers were still in shock from the onside kick recovery and quick TD score.
If Seattle doesn't make that 2 point conversion, Green Bay's final field goal scoring drive would have won the game in in regulation.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
NFL OT rules have been fine for my 50+ years of watching. The only reason they added on the FG-matching clause was due to the increased accuracy of long-range kickers this past decade, making it too easy to bang out a few first downs and send the kicker in. I like the tweak so the other team gets to try and match it. It was irrelevant today...Green Bay just stopped playing defense in the OT. Wilson took advantage and finished the job.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
That line will fluctuate upon word of the severity of Sherman's injury.
Yes, Gronk will be a tough cover but some form of bracket with Kam and a LB may slow that connection.
I'm going Seattle...they've already dodged the bullet and will play freely as a result. The key will be pressure on #12.
Yes, Gronk will be a tough cover but some form of bracket with Kam and a LB may slow that connection.
I'm going Seattle...they've already dodged the bullet and will play freely as a result. The key will be pressure on #12.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
The lines I saw before kickoff were 6.5 and 7. Must have been 5.5 and lower earlier in the week?
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
mikeler
Moderator
Let's see:
1. Score touchdown, hit the review booth AND COMMERCIAL...
2. Wait, somebody got injured AND COMMERCIAL...
3. Come back and score touchdown because call was reversed AND COMMERCIAL...
4. Kick ball off AND COMMERCIAL...
5. Other team gets ball but wait, they only run 1 play and quarter is over AND COMMERCIAL...
Yeah, they could cut down the times of games to allow for overtime.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
This was the odds line we were playing so Seattle did not cover.
soyizgood
G.O.A.T.
Let's see:
1. Score touchdown, hit the review booth AND COMMERCIAL...
2. Wait, somebody got injured AND COMMERCIAL...
3. Come back and score touchdown because call was reversed AND COMMERCIAL...
4. Kick ball off AND COMMERCIAL...
5. Other team gets ball but wait, they only run 1 play and quarter is over AND COMMERCIAL...
Yeah, they could cut down the times of games to allow for overtime.
They don't do kickoffs in college football OTs. Ball at the opposing 30 yd line.
The XFL OT rules would be cool. You get 4 plays to score from the opponent's 30yd line and that's it. The 2nd team has to match the score in the same number or fewer plays.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Let's see:
1. Score touchdown, hit the review booth AND COMMERCIAL...
2. Wait, somebody got injured AND COMMERCIAL...
3. Come back and score touchdown because call was reversed AND COMMERCIAL...
4. Kick ball off AND COMMERCIAL...
5. Other team gets ball but wait, they only run 1 play and quarter is over AND COMMERCIAL...
Yeah, they could cut down the times of games to allow for overtime.
At one time, even the longest 15 play touchdown drives were about 8 minutes long.
Then at some point the play clock rules were changed (I think sometime in the 1980s?) and touchdown drives ate up 12 minutes or more.
The old play clock rules were better (clock always stops on first down, etc).
Now you have teams often getting one possession in a quarter.
The games have less plays and take longer to complete (more commercials, delays and other time outs).
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
As much as I'm hoping for a Seattle win, my head says the Patriots. Those unbalanced formations and whatever else Belichick comes up with could be enough to confuse Seattle to some degree.
Last year everyone knew what the Broncos were going to do, Seattle were the only team good enough to stop them. With the Patriots you have no idea, no matter how much tape you watch and think you're prepared.
Hopefully it's a great game, but I think the Patriots will get it done.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
The ghost of David Tyree will help the Seahawks prevail...same building the Pats entered unbeaten and seemingly unstoppable. Which Hawk will have pixie dust sprinkling from the rafters and release a Skittles shower in the end zone???
oztennisfan
Professional
who was the clown who though indy had a chance........ me
not sure who i will be going for, or who i think will win the superbowl, really 50-50 on both teams.
unbelievable collapse by gb, as shocking as wilson was playing early he stepped up when it counted, nailed it in ot.
that 2 point conversion, clinton dix was caught in two minds, thought if he over played the ball and missed it was an easy conversion. decided to sit back and try to tackle as the pass was slightly short, but ended up doing neither....
colts couldnt stop the run again and new englands d stepped up on their last game. it was over very early.
not sure who i will be going for, or who i think will win the superbowl, really 50-50 on both teams.
unbelievable collapse by gb, as shocking as wilson was playing early he stepped up when it counted, nailed it in ot.
that 2 point conversion, clinton dix was caught in two minds, thought if he over played the ball and missed it was an easy conversion. decided to sit back and try to tackle as the pass was slightly short, but ended up doing neither....
colts couldnt stop the run again and new englands d stepped up on their last game. it was over very early.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
You were fine without mentioning Flacco...Wilson is way past Joe Bird.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Andyroddickfan
Rookie
Surprised no one gave props to Beast. He carried the Hawks to victory.
T1000
Legend
Really don't understand how tt can justify keeping him. Every single time we get a lead he goes into coward mode and plays not to lose. Pats were up by 20 and still trying to score and now they're in their 6th sb in 13 years. He's so damn predictable with his play calling and always tries to force the run when it's clearly not working. Sick of seeing 2nd and long run up the middle for no gain. The Atlanta game and Miami game are perfect examples. Get a big lead then go into don't lose mode play calling. Worst hc in the league by far and would gladly take a chance on someone like Quinn or rex. Seriously wish we got rid of mm and went after rex to see what he can do with a legitimate offense for once
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Plenty of goats to lay blame on in the Pack collapse, including the decision to go 9-in-the-box on the game-winning pass. Capers dialed that in despite Wilson showing nice read and touch on his previous throw. And special teams had the wheels fall off...first the fake FG for a TD and then Bostick forgetting he was in to clear space for Nelson to sky for that onside. Poor calls, poor performance but Seattle still had to produce when given the chance and that shows their staff doesn't give up on them...Beast Mode all around, not just Lynch. WRs all of a sudden holding on to passes from Wilson, OL protecting and getting holes for the run game.
Never give up!
Never give up!
Topspin Shot
Legend
I know the loss was hard, but Mike McCarthy is one of the best coaches in the league, and you should be grateful you have him. He's the one who developed Rodgers and has had Green Bay dominating their division for years. Yes, he has flaws, but Rex would frustrate you just as much if not more. Despite Rodgers, there's a decent chance the offense would suffer under him, and he's a very bad game manager. And even still, he's not one of the worst coaches in the league. Face it, in a fair world, GB should win the division once every four years and the Super Bowl once every 32 years. They've done a lot better than that under McCarthy.
McCarthy is just a terrible in-game/situational manager. I think he is very good at the rest...game plan, scheme, etc. He just makes strange decisions. 4th downs, clock management, use of timeouts - not strengths of his. But, hey, he did hit his target of 20 rushing attempts in the second half. There is something to be said for a man who identifies his goals and achieves them at all costs.
I mean, you've only got the best QB in the league. How could he help you win a game?
I mean, you've only got the best QB in the league. How could he help you win a game?
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
McCarthy is just a terrible in-game/situational manager. I think he is very good at the rest...game plan, scheme, etc. He just makes strange decisions. 4th downs, clock management, use of timeouts - not strengths of his. But, hey, he did hit his target of 20 rushing attempts in the second half. There is something to be said for a man who identifies his goals and achieves them at all costs.
I mean, you've only got the best QB in the league. How could he help you win a game?
As usual, totally agree
McCarthy is a very good coach, he does alot of good things, he has talent to work with, but he gets the most out of them. The problem is his play calling and he seems to play not to lose. Carroll and Belichick are coaches who play the game to win, unbalanced formations, fake field goals, going for it on 3rd and 4th and long, risking it on the one yard line etc.. McCarthy just doesn't have that in him.
Also i've got to question the culture he has cultivated, his players seemed to play scared and were happier to sit back and protect what they had. The best coaches in sport have an ethos that everyone buys into, Belichick and his 'no one man is bigger than the team', Carroll and his infectious enthusiasm, no mountain can't be overcome, compete hard from day one of training camp. The likes of Pop with the Spurs, Mourinho and Ferguson in soccer etc.. McCarthy doesn't have that, very few coaches do, that's what sets apart the great ones from the just very good.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree except for Flacco. He's only marginally better than Wilson IMO. That's why I go more on the eye test and individual accomplishments. For this reason, I think Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL right now. Admittedly, he didn't have the best game yesterday, but the Packers screwed that up in more ways than one. To be clear, I find Wilson to be a pretty good QB, but as you said, I don't think he's in the Manning, Brady, Rodgers class. In fact, as great as Brady is, he had a lot of help for his 3 SB's too, but that has to be true, otherwise you don't win 3 SB's.
My personal thought is that if you put Wilson on any other team last year they wouldn't have won the SB. Again, Wilson is great, but he's not the main attraction that takes them to 2 SB's (and has won 1) in Seattle. That goes to the defense as a unit, and Marshawn Lynch IMO.
But anyway, you know Wilson is doing his job well when he throws 4 INT's, and at the end of the game Joe Buck is calling him a "winner."
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Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
An embarrassing collapse like that in a playoff game would never be tolerated if it had happened here with the 49ers.
Somebody would be held accountable. As they should be.
Particularly with the secondary standing around during that two point conversion. Along with all the other missed opportunities and "playing not to lose" mentality.
Ultimately the buck stops with McCarthy. He is not irreplaceable.
Somebody would be held accountable. As they should be.
Particularly with the secondary standing around during that two point conversion. Along with all the other missed opportunities and "playing not to lose" mentality.
Ultimately the buck stops with McCarthy. He is not irreplaceable.
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
He's hard to judge really, when your top two targets are Kearse and Baldwin, you're never going to be putting up elite numbers. Love their attitude, but they aren't that good. They can't really win one on ones against better DB's, the plays they do make are during the scramble plays, or when Wilson finds them with perfectly placed and flighted throws (like the game winner yesterday, that throw was inch perfect).
We saw earlier in the game, there were 2 interceptions where the balls bounced off Kearse's hands and popped up. They were fairly routine catches that you'd expect decent receivers at this level to be making.
So yeah, judging Wilson on his numbers through the air is pretty silly imo, as it stands they will never set the world alight. What we can judge him on is his brain and character, he finds a way to win and get it done with what he has, in the biggest moments. That speaks volumes for me.
T1000
Legend
15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty on Daniels after an interception to put the ball on the 20 instead of the 5
Not going for it on 4th and goal twice
Terrible goal line play calling and Rodgers missing an easy td to jordy
Burnett taking a knee instead of running and getting into fg range
Running to get out of the game quickly instead of throwing in passes way to easy to stop the run when you know it's coming
Brad jones coming in to aggressively to block the fg to put him out of position and free up the seattle rookie for the easy td
Dropping the onside kick
Prevent d on 3rd and 19
Soft secondary play all day
Literally every single thing that seattle needed to go wrong in green bays end happened. Never seen a team so lucky
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
I might have gotten carried away with Flacco when I heard Harbaugh say he would take Flacco over any QB in the league...
As for Wilson, he may yet turn out to be one of the GOAT, but I think he can be vulnerable to big pass rush due to his size.
He has the talent to scramble and get out of trouble but I am more comfortable with a taller QB that has better ability to stay in the pocket and make the play.
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
He actually reminds me of Brady in his earlier years, they both seem older and wiser than their counterparts. They have totally different games, but they seem to have similar minds and characteristics. Brady had something like 140 yards and 1 TD in his first Super Bowl, but he led the drive that ended with the winning field goal as time expired.
Both weren't putting up stupid numbers, but they are clever players with nerves of steel, short memories and the happy knack of making the big plays in the biggest moments.
That's not to say Wilson will go on to be one of the greatest like Brady, i'm just not sure why people are doubting Wilson when he continues to show his big play ability in the big moments, and all the talent and intangibles that you need to be at the top. Are they really expecting him to get Gronk like numbers out of Willson and have Kearse go for 1,700 yards and a TD a game? Just isn't going to happen.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
It was way too early to use a prevent. Up 16-0, with a third and 19.
Just stick with what had been working the whole game.
If they happen to make the first down or even a TD on third and 19, that's fine.
At least you know you went down trying to win instead of the "playing not to lose" mentality that McCarthy seems to demonstrate.
When I listen to McCarthy speak in the press conferences, he just does not strike me as an intelligent articulate head coach.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Yes, Wilson made some beautiful passes at the end. Wilson is fun to watch.
Not really doubting Wilson but wondering if it's premature for Seattle to commit long term after only only 3 seasons, sort of like what happened to Kaepernick.
The 49ers signed Kaepernick long term and some are now saying Kaepernick is struggling because NFL defenses and pass rushers have begun to figure him out.
49ers might be having second thoughts about that long term Kaepernick contract now.
Topspin Shot
Legend
IMO, Wilson is better than Kaepernick and an above-average NFL starter. However, he is a tier below the elite quarterbacks: Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Romo, and Luck. He has the potential to become elite, and we'll find out when he (and other teammates) get big contracts and the team around him weakens.
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
Yeah Kaepernick has always had a problem moving to his left, he struggles with reading progressions and he only has one throw (the 94mph fast ball
), he doesn't really have any touch or feel, from what i've seen. Wilson does have the talent, but you're right, you can't really be elite imo until you've done it over a long period, i'd include Luck in that too, even though he seems to be up there in discussions. Who knows how things will work out with the cap situation. 5 years down the road Wilson might have great young receivers and a weak defense, the Patriots have had all kinds of identities over the last decade, teams change from year to year it seems.
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Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Not really, IMO. Manning made Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie in 2009 for example. Or at least Collie because I see Garcon had a great season a couple of years ago. And what was Welker doing before he landed with the Patriots and Brady?
Even the widely known Marvin Harrison started to get better numbers year after year starting in 1998 when Manning was drafted. And he played 1996 and 1997 without Manning. All I'm saying is that 9 times out of 10 the QB makes the receivers better (if he's that good), not the other way around.
I think the most glaring differences to my theory are Calvin Johnson and Dez Bryant right now. Both are receivers who make their QB's better IMO, especially in Stafford's case. Also A.J. Green definitely does that in Cincinnati because Dalton is past terrible at this point.
I agree on the couple INT's, but he still played absolutely terrible, and if the Packers won as they should've, Wilson wouldn't be paraded around being called a "winner." That is what I hate the most about the QB-centric NFL we live in. They get way too much credit for a win, and way too much blame for a loss sometimes. The worst part is, I have no problems with Wilson.
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Feña14
G.O.A.T.
This is true, but would the likes of Kearse and Baldwin even be in the NFL if they didn't have Wilson throwing to them? Who knows
As it is, they made plays on 4th and long in last years Conference game against the 49'ers, yesterday on 3rd and long and then the game winning TD. Maybe they would do it on other teams, or maybe Wilson is getting production at the highest level out of players who would be on the practice squad of most teams. We'll probably only know when Wilson has quality targets, and he's bound to have that at some point in his career. As it is we can only judge the work he has done in his short career, and with what he has, it's impressive imo.
Topspin Shot
Legend
I agree with everything you're saying except that Dalton is terrible. He's below average, but he isn't that easily replaceable. Truly bad quarterbacks are Geno Smith, Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer, and the like.
