Nikolay Davydenko calls NextGen weak - again, and is surprised at Alcaraz' injuries

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"And eight years after his retirement, the Russian was in disbelief as the two tennis icons kept on winning at the biggest events. Davydenko continued: “It turns out that young players are so weak? Because I also played with [Nadal], and then he won everything. And now there are young, physically strong, drummers - and he still beats them. It turns out that the tennis of that generation is still stronger than the current one.”"
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www.express.co.uk

Alcaraz and 'weak' players criticised in Djokovic and Nadal assesment

Nikolay Davydenko was critical of Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal's current rivals in a damning assessment of the ATP Tour.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
 
Medical help and health in general has gotten significantly better in the last 10 years and it's happening in lots of sports, not just tennis. Look at the world cup, lots of players in their late 30s, nearly 40 are still playing at the top level. Talent is talent and players can play for longer age wise and Djokovic/Nadal are just better players.

Still, Davydenko questioning anything about Alcaraz when he had a lot of injuries himself is kinda hypocritical and he wasn't exactly far off Nadal/Djokovic's generation but fell off form wise far far far before "retirement age" so I think him saying anything at all is a joke.
 
NatF said:
The three best players of that gen have all lost slam finals from 2-0 up, you literally need to hand them the win in big matches.
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At least Med kept fighting in his loss up 2-0 (although it was still an embarrassing defeat). Tsitsipas looked like he had no chance in that RG final midway through the 3rd set from what I remember (did Djokovic even face a break point after the 2nd set?), and the less said about Z vs Thiem the better.
 
NatF said:
The three best players of that gen have all lost slam finals from 2-0 up, you literally need to hand them the win in big matches.
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I still believe Zverev can figure it out, because he should know deep down that his game is super-reliable.

Nice to see the mentality of Alcaraz and Rune, after all these years of fluffy young players. They give two fvcks about who's one the other side of the net and stick to their game plans instead of morphing into jellyfish when it matters.

Rune still hasn't performed in BO5, though.
 
Sampras-Bruguera 1993 said:
They have been weak for almost 10 years. 2014 is when the quality of the tour really started going down. and it hasn’t really recovered. But at least Davydenko’s gen have an excuse. The big 3 were young. These kids today have no excuse

there is no doubt Davydenko would win quite a few HC slams if he was playing today
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I couldn't disagree more. What was stopping him pre-Big 3? Getting spanked by Federer repeatedly? Djokovic has a pretty significant H2H over him too and even Murray leads the H2H with wins over him when he was arguably in his prime. Is that solely because of the age factor or could it simply be that he and his generation were getting overtaken by younger players with more consistency because he and his generation were even weaker and talent took over?
 
junior74 said:
I still believe Zverev can figure it out, because he should know deep down that his game is super-reliable.

Nice to see the mentality of Alcaraz and Rune, after all these years of fluffy young players. They give two fvcks about who's one the other side of the net and stick to their game plans instead of morphing into jellyfish when it matters.

Rune still hasn't performed in BO5, though.
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I think Z can zone and win a slam or two, but I would never call his game super reliable. In tough moments, he decelerates on both his forehand and second serve and ends up hitting balls into the stands or into the net. I think he has absolutely no confidence in either of those shots unless he is playing extremely well.
 
Terenigma said:
I couldn't disagree more. What was stopping him pre-Big 3? Getting spanked by Federer repeatedly? Djokovic has a pretty significant H2H over him too and even Murray leads the H2H with wins over him when he was arguably in his prime. Is that solely because of the age factor or could it simply be that he and his generation were getting overtaken by younger players with more consistency because he and his generation were even weaker and talent took over?
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I think he was saying PEAK Davydenko would be winning slams today. Obviously current Davydenko wouldn’t win anything, the dude is how old, 40 something?

Peak Davydenko on the other hand would be having a field day with these current players, Djokovic included and especially Nadal
 
A little over a decade ago, this forum was rife with annoying Federer fans. Now it is Djokovic fans. Rational comments will be attacked immediately to create the proper narrative. It is pretty simple. Nadal fans only come out when their guy gets hot and wins, which is happening less and less often. We will see if he has a few more in him.

Point being, there is no convincing fans of any of the big three that their guy benefited from changing court conditions or a weakening of competition.
 
President said:
I think Z can zone and win a slam or two, but I would never call his game super reliable. In tough moments, he decelerates on both his forehand and second serve and ends up hitting balls into the stands or into the net. I think he has absolutely no confidence in either of those shots unless he is playing extremely well.
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I meant figuring out the mental part, because the strokes as such are more reliable than most young players' strokes. I think a lot of players from his generation have too weak games to begin with.
 
Terenigma said:
I couldn't disagree more. What was stopping him pre-Big 3? Getting spanked by Federer repeatedly? Djokovic has a pretty significant H2H over him too and even Murray leads the H2H with wins over him when he was arguably in his prime. Is that solely because of the age factor or could it simply be that he and his generation were getting overtaken by younger players with more consistency because he and his generation were even weaker and talent took over?
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Davydenko could be somewhat inconsistent in his results, but he made 4 Grand Slam semifinals. In 3 of them, he lost to peak Federer and in the other he lost to a doping Puerta in a grueling match on very slow clay at RG. I don't see Tsitsipas, for example, winning a single one of those matches.
 
initialize said:
I think he was saying PEAK Davydenko would be winning slams today. Obviously current Davydenko wouldn’t win anything, the dude is how old, 40 something?

Peak Davydenko on the other hand would be having a field day with these current players, Djokovic included and especially Nadal
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No I know but my point is that I don't think Davydenko has a grip on the level of players right now and is blaming it on age. Personally I think peak Davydenko would be getting destroyed by Zverev/Medvedev and if you want to go younger then I don't think Alcaraz or Sinner would have much trouble with him in his prime either. Them failing vs Nadal/Djokovic now is not due to age but due to talent and as I put in my previous comment, health and maintaining top tier fitness is a lot easier now than it was 10+ years ago so talent is the defining factor, not age.
 
Terenigma said:
No I know but my point is that I don't think Davydenko has a grip on the level of players right now and is blaming it on age. Personally I think peak Davydenko would be getting destroyed by Zverev/Medvedev and if you want to go younger then I don't think Alcaraz or Sinner would have much trouble with him in his prime either. Them failing vs Nadal/Djokovic now is not due to age but due to talent and as I put in my previous comment, health and maintaining top tier fitness is a lot easier now than it was 10+ years ago so talent is the defining factor, not age.
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What are you basing this on? Look at the Rome highlights I posted above, or some of Davydenko's matches at 2009 WTF, for instance. Or any of his destructions of Nadal on hardcourt. Then compare that with Med getting thrashed by a nearly 36 year old Nadal in Acapulco this year.
 
President said:
At least Med kept fighting in his loss up 2-0 (although it was still an embarrassing defeat). Tsitsipas looked like he had no chance in that RG final midway through the 3rd set from what I remember (did Djokovic even face a break point after the 2nd set?), and the less said about Z vs Thiem the better.
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In order of best to worst I would go 1) Tsits 2) Med 3) Zverev

Tsits just never had a chance in the final three sets, his movement dropped off and his backhand and return were picked on. Djokovic was obviously the best player on the whole any of them faced too. Wasn't much of a choke imo.

Med just started playing with terrible shot selection. Definite choke imo. Nadal was extremely beatable too...

Less said about Zverev the better.
 
NatF said:
In order of best to worst I would go 1) Tsits 2) Med 3) Zverev

Tsits just never had a chance in the final three sets, his movement dropped off and his backhand and return were picked on. Djokovic was obviously the best player on the whole any of them faced too. Wasn't much of a choke imo.

Med just started playing with terrible shot selection. Definite choke imo. Nadal was extremely beatable too...

Less said about Zverev the better.
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It was so weird though, Tsitsipas had all the momentum and then the match literally become uncompetitive after he won the second set. At least Medvedev broke back a few times and the match was still exciting and interesting. I agree that it's debatable though.
 
President said:
It was so weird though, Tsitsipas had all the momentum and then the match literally become uncompetitive after he won the second set. At least Medvedev broke back a few times and the match was still exciting and interesting. I agree that it's debatable though.
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Tsitsipas checked out, and looked like he wanted to go home for two hours straight. Special stuff, considering how tough he competed and stayed in every point in the first two sets.
 
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President said:
It was so weird though, Tsitsipas had all the momentum and then the match literally become uncompetitive after he won the second set. At least Medvedev broke back a few times and the match was still exciting and interesting. I agree that it's debatable though.
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Djokovic's was kinda terrible in the second iirc. I just feel Tsitsipas was beaten mostly because of his limitations. Medvedev was too, the guy struggles to deal with angles and variety but his use of drop shots, the way he ran around his forehand to hit backhands...all just terrible stuff lol.
 
Stat wise Djoker can easily get to 25-26 slams in the next 3 seasons..
From 2018 he has won 9/17 52% win rate per participation even if he drops off 30% from here on out .36% x 12…
We only just now have emergence of decent young players in Alcaraz, rune, sinner and a maybe a couple more in there but they aren’t going to win everything from now and dominate they are still developing…
 
Alcaraz might be different thing than typical next gen weak losers. I wouldn't bet om him though given awful record of youngsters in last decade..
 
For those who missed it, he also said this back in June of this year:

The current top players, apart from Djokovic and Nadal, "are technically not good," said Davydenko. "It's gotten more physical - strong serves, hard groundstrokes - but we still see that Nadal and Djokovic can control the new generation. They're still winning slams and beating guys ten years younger than them, which is amazing." , said the 41-year-old. "Anyway, I don't feel that the new generation is playing at an incredible level."
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Djokovic2011 said:
Sounds like Davy's roundabout way of saying "I frequently spanked Nadal's bum when he was in his prime, imagine what I'd do to him now". :giggle:
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What a stupid, yet predictable comment...

If Davy was so tough, why did he never reach Nadal in any majors?

We've seen many times players get the edge in Bo3 but Bo5 is a different story altogether...

For example, Murray was spanking Fed in Bo3... won something like 6 of their first 8 matches... but at the majors he only beat him once... barely...

Another example is Zed beating Djok in Bo3 4 times... yet in their 3 matches at slam level he's 0-3...

As for what he'd do to him now... you do realise that Davydenko only lead the h2h by 1 match right? Oh yeah... lemme guess... clay doesn't count?

Davy is 41 years old right now... I'm certain 36 yr old Nadal would spank him at any major.
 
President said:
What are you basing this on? Look at the Rome highlights I posted above, or some of Davydenko's matches at 2009 WTF, for instance. Or any of his destructions of Nadal on hardcourt. Then compare that with Med getting thrashed by a nearly 36 year old Nadal in Acapulco this year.
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How about the fact his best title has also been won by both of them? How about the fact they have both made more grand slam finals than him, one of them even winning one. The fact that Zverev is 2 titles away from equaling his career titles already. Anyone can find highlights from most players that show them playing at a high level so let's flip this around.

You give me your reasons to assume Zverev/Medvedev wouldn't be dominant over peak Davydenko. Also if you're going to quote the video of him vs Nadal and say he played well vs Nadal then I will counter by asking why he wasn't equally as good against Federer.
 
Terenigma said:
How about the fact his best title has also been won by both of them? How about the fact they have both made more grand slam finals than him, one of them even winning one. The fact that Zverev is 2 titles away from equaling his career titles already. Anyone can find highlights from most players that show them playing at a high level so let's flip this around.

You give me your reasons to assume Zverev/Medvedev wouldn't be dominant over peak Davydenko. Also if you're going to quote the video of him vs Nadal and say he played well vs Nadal then I will counter by asking why he wasn't equally as good against Federer.
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On a technical level, Davydenko does everything equal (backhand) or better (forehand, footwork, return) than them and the Philosopher apart from serve (and that only because they are all 6'5 and 6'6). I see no reason to believe they'd be dominant over him on hard or clay, and it's not like they are any good on grass either so that would be a wash.
 
I could be wrong but this new group of kids (Alcaraz, Sinner) seems to be better than the last set of "nextgen" (Z, TT) players or the ones before them. Med is obviously very good but his peers mentally are very weak. I think Alcaraz, Sinner, and their peers will push "The Big 2" now more than those previous groups and "The Big 2" are not any younger.
 
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Terenigma said:
No I know but my point is that I don't think Davydenko has a grip on the level of players right now and is blaming it on age. Personally I think peak Davydenko would be getting destroyed by Zverev/Medvedev and if you want to go younger then I don't think Alcaraz or Sinner would have much trouble with him in his prime either. Them failing vs Nadal/Djokovic now is not due to age but due to talent and as I put in my previous comment, health and maintaining top tier fitness is a lot easier now than it was 10+ years ago so talent is the defining factor, not age.
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LMAO. :-D :-D :-D :-D

compared to Tpas, davy moves better, hits his FH better, BH better, returns better
Tpas is better on serve and net play, that's it.

compared to Med, davy moves better, hits his FH better, BH even, returns better
Med is better on serve, that's it.

in which land do these guys destroy davy?
the land where nadal destroyed him on HC with a 1-6 h2h? LOL.
 
Instead of getting defensive I really think some of these guys would do well to listen to Davydenko. He’s not just blindly criticizing them in an “old man hates young people” way, he’s making totally legitimate points about the problems with our game at the moment.

Someone should really bring him in on an advisory basis, he’s saying these things because he cares about the sport and wants it to improve.
 
ghostofMecir said:
“Some of us” are the Djokodals who have refused to accept the career inflation era brought upon by this weak generation of players.
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The really hilarious part is that they DO accept it but only when it suits them. Like did you hear every Djokovic fan crying and saying Medvedev was a choker after AO 22? Then the same with Nadal fans saying this is the weakest field ever once Djoko won Wimby/ATP finals.

All of 2021 was Nadal fans crying about the inflation era and then once Nadal beats Medvedev Shapo and Zverev suddenly those guys were super tough opponents that only Rafa GOATing could have beat lol.

It’s just mental gymnastics from sad fanboys.
 
Kralingen said:
The really hilarious part is that they DO accept it but only when it suits them. Like did you hear every Djokovic fan crying and saying Medvedev was a choker after AO 22? Then the same with Nadal fans saying this is the weakest field ever once Djoko won Wimby/ATP finals.

All of 2021 was Nadal fans crying about the inflation era and then once Nadal beats Medvedev Shapo and Zverev suddenly those two were super tough opponents that only Rafa GOATing could have beat lol.

It’s just mental gymnastics from sad fanboys.
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Lol this is true.
 
abmk said:
LMAO. :-D :-D :-D :-D

compared to Tpas, davy moves better, hits his FH better, BH better, returns better
Tpas is better on serve and net play, that's it.

compared to Med, davy moves better, hits his FH better, BH even, returns better
Med is better on serve, that's it.

in which land do these guys destroy davy?
the land where nadal destroyed him on HC with a 1-6 h2h? LOL.
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Opinion. If he was so great why wasn't he winning more titles? 2009 was his best season, right? ATP finals that year was a very excellent performance by him and he has a losing H2H against 6 of the 8 players there. There is no statistical proof he would be better than Zverev/Medvedev, only objective opinion of his game which is hugely debatable.

People have a ridiculous romanticism about that era of tennis and it's probably because it's when tennis was at it's most popular but in terms of actual quality, it's utterly overrated with several players and current tennis is downplayed to hell because the time between both eras we were treated to the best tennis anyone has ever or will ever see. I'm not going to act like the current gen are amazing but they are underrated as hell.
 
The_Order said:
As if there aren't Federinas that refuse to accept how much he inflated his slam count from 04-07...
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Let’s see… peak Fed, near-peak Nadal and Djokovic, Agassi, Safin, DAVYDENKO, Nalbandian, Soderling, Roddick.


All players who would mop the floor with the current crop of players, present-day Djokovic and Nadal included
 
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