No money in tennis outside of top 200

#1
Not to discourage any teens on this forum who hope to be a ATP pro one day but I was looking up a player who won a local tournament in my area and there's no money to be made in tennis unless you are in the top 200. This player is Evan Song. He's been pro for 8 years or so. He's constantly ranked around the 300s and he's made almost nothing in his career. He won a future tournament and received $3K which was his biggest winning of his career. That $3K he made probably doesn't even cover the travel expenses. It crazy to think he spent all his life on the courts and can't make a living. So I guess you do this to follow your dream and not the money.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#3
The 300th best decathlon athlete (No. 1 is considered the best athlete on land) and the 300th best 50 meter freestyle swimmer (No 1 is considered the best athlete in water) also do not earn much at all.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#5
Universal Basic Income combined with Universal Healthcare will fix these problems. Then people can pursue their passions. The world will greatly improve as people will work only if they want to. All mundane work will be handled by robots.
 
#6
Universal Basic Income combined with Universal Healthcare will fix these problems. Then people can pursue their passions. The world will greatly improve as people will work only if they want to. All mundane work will be handled by robots.
Nice dream. Good point.
 

norcal

Hall of Fame
#8
I thought there was no money outside of top 100.
If you can maintain a ranking of #105 (or whatever the direct entry to slams is) you get at minimum 4 1R checks totalling 250k-ish + whatever you make the rest of the year. Not too bad.

If you're a pro for 8 years and are still playing 3k tournies, maybe get a job and play open tournaments for money on the weekend.
 
#9
If you can maintain a ranking of #105 (or whatever the direct entry to slams is) you get at minimum 4 1R checks totalling 250k-ish + whatever you make the rest of the year. Not too bad.

If you're a pro for 8 years and are still playing 3k tournies, maybe get a job and play open tournaments for money on the weekend.
I think travel, accommodation, coaching etc will cost quite a bit though.
 
#10
I searched the current 200 ranked player, Stefano Napolitano. He has been a pro for six years and worked his way up from 400 to now 200. He has earned $388K over the 6 years and made $20K just in 2019, with a 2019 run rate of $120K. So there is some food/rent money for players in the 100-200s. You can't really compare against decathlons and swimmers cause there's really no money even if you are top 10, they make their money from sponsorship. Let's focus on prime time sports we see regular on ESPN. For NBA, MLB, NBA the 300th best player is making good money compared to most of us. The minimum salary for making the team is around $500K. NFL has 32 team with a 52 man roster so the 1664 ranked NFL player is making a minimum of $500K. . Even the NFL practice squad players(equivalent to being ranked in the 3000s) are making a paycheck which allows for a living. Looking at the PGA it is about the same as the ATP. 200 rank is making about $100K year. 300th ranking is not even making minimum wages. I guess the lesson for young players is follow your dreams but don't skip college. Play college tennis and get a degree while you are at it.
 
#12
One of my tennis pals and I agree that the year end ATP event that the guys play in London is rather absurd. They heap a bunch of extra money onto the eight singles players in the game who need it the least.
But those players would get the bulk of prize money if you organised a bigger tournament anyway!:p
 
#14
I searched the current 200 ranked player, Stefano Napolitano. He has been a pro for six years and worked his way up from 400 to now 200. He has earned $388K over the 6 years and made $20K just in 2019, with a 2019 run rate of $120K. So there is some food/rent money for players in the 100-200s. You can't really compare against decathlons and swimmers cause there's really no money even if you are top 10, they make their money from sponsorship. Let's focus on prime time sports we see regular on ESPN. For NBA, MLB, NBA the 300th best player is making good money compared to most of us. The minimum salary for making the team is around $500K. NFL has 32 team with a 52 man roster so the 1664 ranked NFL player is making a minimum of $500K. . Even the NFL practice squad players(equivalent to being ranked in the 3000s) are making a paycheck which allows for a living. Looking at the PGA it is about the same as the ATP. 200 rank is making about $100K year. 300th ranking is not even making minimum wages. I guess the lesson for young players is follow your dreams but don't skip college. Play college tennis and get a degree while you are at it.
I hope you are smarter than what you posted in this thread. Football (NFL) is a very dangerous sport. It will give you CTE later in life. About 70% of NFL players is black and probably the vast majority of them come from very poor families and from the ghetto and football is the only way for them to improve upward mobility. No sane people will tell you that 500k/yr is worth it if one can get CTE later on in life.

I live in upscale neighborhood and nobody let their kids play either american football or soccer, knowing that as the kids get older, the collision will become more violent and can cause concussions and potential CTE later in their lives. The kids either play tennis, golf or swimming. These families know that the chance of becoming a tennis pro as a living is even less than winning the lottery. In my neighborhood, people have enough money to pay for their kids college education that they don't even bother with tennis scholarship. They use tennis as a way to get into good colleges and networking in their professional careers.
 
#15
I hope you are smarter than what you posted in this thread. Football (NFL) is a very dangerous sport. It will give you CTE later in life. About 70% of NFL players is black and probably the vast majority of them come from very poor families and from the ghetto and football is the only way for them to improve upward mobility.
You have data to back up this claim?
 
#17
Pacman Jones
Tamba Hali
Jimmy Graham
Devonta Freeman
Thomas Davis
Aaron Donald
Dez Bryant
Michael Oher
Ray Lewis
Knowshon Moreno
Adrian Peterson
Tyrann Mathieu
Demaryius Thomas
Michael Sam
Michael Oher
Aaron Donald

Too many too count.
That's 16 players; now count the rest of the NFL. NFL is a lot more than 16. "Vast majority" would be, say, 95%. "Very poor" would be, say, below the federal poverty line. So, to prove your point rather than cherry-picking data, you'd have to show that 95% of black NFL players came from families below the poverty line. That's what I mean by "data".

BTW: you counted "Michael Oher" twice.
 
#18
That's 16 players; now count the rest of the NFL. NFL is a lot more than 16. "Vast majority" would be, say, 95%. "Very poor" would be, say, below the federal poverty line. So, to prove your point rather than cherry-picking data, you'd have to show that 95% of black NFL players came from families below the poverty line. That's what I mean by "data".

BTW: you counted "Michael Oher" twice.
I don't think anyone in their right mind, at least in the United States, would dare to do a study like that, without being considered to be racists. You do a study like that and the media and special interest groups will be all over you in a heartbeat.
 
#20
I don't think anyone in their right mind, at least in the United States, would dare to do a study like that, without being considered to be racists. You do a study like that and the media and special interest groups will be all over you in a heartbeat.
You made the claim so I assumed you had a data source. If not, you just made up the stats based on your perception of 16 [I mean 15] players out of a league of, what, over 1000?
 
#21
Not to discourage any teens on this forum who hope to be a ATP pro one day but I was looking up a player who won a local tournament in my area and there's no money to be made in tennis unless you are in the top 200. This player is Evan Song. He's been pro for 8 years or so. He's constantly ranked around the 300s and he's made almost nothing in his career. He won a future tournament and received $3K which was his biggest winning of his career. That $3K he made probably doesn't even cover the travel expenses. It crazy to think he spent all his life on the courts and can't make a living. So I guess you do this to follow your dream and not the money.
Well, he could go into coaching or doubles or work for a club or something right? If money is his goal then yeah that sucks, but otherwise he's doing something he loves (i assume)
 
#23
It does state your 70% # [68.7%].

It does not state your opinion "probably the vast majority of them come from very poor families and from the ghetto". It did talk about negative socioeconomic differences but your phrasing takes it to an extreme that the article did not.

The conclusion I draw is that you extrapolated a view based on your perceptions. Not that the article didn't raise good points; it did. But it did so in a much less biased way than you.

If you had written your original post referencing this article rather than the above statement, you would have had more credibility.
 
#24
I hope you are smarter than what you posted in this thread. Football (NFL) is a very dangerous sport. It will give you CTE later in life. About 70% of NFL players is black and probably the vast majority of them come from very poor families and from the ghetto and football is the only way for them to improve upward mobility. No sane people will tell you that 500k/yr is worth it if one can get CTE later on in life.

I live in upscale neighborhood and nobody let their kids play either american football or soccer, knowing that as the kids get older, the collision will become more violent and can cause concussions and potential CTE later in their lives. The kids either play tennis, golf or swimming. These families know that the chance of becoming a tennis pro as a living is even less than winning the lottery. In my neighborhood, people have enough money to pay for their kids college education that they don't even bother with tennis scholarship. They use tennis as a way to get into good colleges and networking in their professional careers.
I just made a general comment on how there's little money in tennis even if you are one of the best 300 player in the world. I was just surprised that a 300 ranked player makes almost nothing in the sport. Yes I'm smart enough to understand that the NFL is more dangerous than tennis. But that's not the point of my discussion. Fine take the NFL out the discussion. Let's just compare to the MLB and NBA which is a much less violent sport.
 
#25
It does state your 70% # [68.7%].

It does not state your opinion "probably the vast majority of them come from very poor families and from the ghetto". It did talk about negative socioeconomic differences but your phrasing takes it to an extreme that the article did not.

The conclusion I draw is that you extrapolated a view based on your perceptions. Not that the article didn't raise good points; it did. But it did so in a much less biased way than you.

If you had written your original post referencing this article rather than the above statement, you would have had more credibility.

Where do you live in the United States?

Many years ago, I worked as an IT consultant in Coral Gables Florida where the U. of Miami is located. People there called "the U". At the time, I love american football and I came by and watch their practices as often as I could. Many of the players came from housing projects in tough ghetto neighborhoods. A lot of them come from families with step siblings (e.g. single mother with multiple kids from different fathers). You don't know it unless you live in it. Right now, I am not that far from Baltimore City and it is exactly the same thing, run down neighborhood and probably 95% of people there live in poverty. Most coaches will tell you that this is where you find exceptional D1 college football recruits. They are so poor that football is the only way out to upward mobility.
 
#26
Where do you live in the United States?

Many years ago, I worked as an IT consultant in Coral Gables Florida where the U. of Miami is located. People there called "the U". At the time, I love american football and I came by and watch their practices as often as I could. Many of the players came from housing projects in tough ghetto neighborhoods. A lot of them come from families with step siblings (e.g. single mother with multiple kids from different fathers). You don't know it unless you live in it. Right now, I am not that far from Baltimore City and it is exactly the same thing, run down neighborhood and probably 95% of people there live in poverty. Most coaches will tell you that this is where you find exceptional D1 college football recruits. They are so poor that football is the only way out to upward mobility.
I'm not arguing with the general theme of the article; only your extrapolation to the entire NFL.
 
#27
I just made a general comment on how there's little money in tennis even if you are one of the best 300 player in the world. I was just surprised that a 300 ranked player makes almost nothing in the sport. Yes I'm smart enough to understand that the NFL is more dangerous than tennis. But that's not the point of my discussion. Fine take the NFL out the discussion. Let's just compare to the MLB and NBA which is a much less violent sport.
It is because both the MLB and NBA have the revenue sharing system where, if I not mistaken, is pretty 50/50 between the owners and the players. MLB and NBA also get a big share of revenue from sponsorship and TV revenues.

I think in tennis, players only get at most, again if I am not mistaken, 22% of the revenue. That's probably why the 300th ranked player gets nothing :(
 
#30
You should volunteer your time in neighborhood like Baltimore City so you can see how bad things are. Unless you are in it, you won't know.
I repeat: I'm not contradicting you on any one particular city [you mentioned 2]; just on your extrapolation. If you want to convince me, show me the data for the entire NFL, not just Baltimore City or Coral Gables.
 
#31
If you watched any American Football and knew the backgrounds of most of the players..the areas of the cities they are from, you wouldn't be so outrageously offended by what this person said. It's not some filthy despicable racists misconception. Sheesh.
I don't watch American football and I don't know the backgrounds of most the players...do you?

Where did I demonstrate any outrage? I asked him to prove what he wrote. His proof was not very convincing, to me at least.
 
#32
If you watched any American Football and knew the backgrounds of most of the players..the areas of the cities they are from, you wouldn't be so outrageously offended by what this person said. It's not some filthy despicable racists misconception. Sheesh.
I think some just like to debate for the sake of debating. :sneaky:

I’m sure if someone created a thread to talk about how the Corvette is an affordable car, somebody would counter and say no, it’s not and point out that the Cruze is an affordable car. :unsure:
 

dman72

Hall of Fame
#34
I don't watch American football and I don't know the backgrounds of most the players...do you?

Where did I demonstrate any outrage? I asked him to prove what he wrote. His proof was not very convincing, to me at least.
Yes i do watch it and yes i do know their backgrounds.. Why imply there was something not factual about what was said if it doesn't bother you? Give me a break.
 
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#36
Yes i do eatch it and yes i do know their backgrounds.. Why imply there was something not factual about what was said if it doesn't bother you? Give me a break.
So I'm only supposed to comment on things that bother me? No, I comment on many things. Whether they bother me is independent of whether they are factual.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
#41
The author of this article refers to a study that kids from well off families have a better chance of making it to the NBA. For the NFL, he just tries to look at the Dallas market, and again the results are a bit surprising. I too assumed that poorer kids would have more hunger and drive to make it. However, it doesn't seem to be the case. The author brings up a good point that when you are poor, there are a lot of things working against you just to live on a day to day basis.

It would be interesting to see though with concussions whether the pendulum would swing more towards kids from poorer families playing football:

https://medium.com/themap/dfw-the-nfl-and-kids-achieving-potential-in-all-fields-ca7c2282520b
 
#42
Many players in the NFL get arrested for illegal guns, drugs, dog fighting and are usually on the news for the wrong reasons. You just know they come from Beverly Hills.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
#45
Many players in the NFL get arrested for illegal guns, drugs, dog fighting and are usually on the news for the wrong reasons. You just know they come from Beverly Hills.
Considering the number of NFL players, the number of players who get arrested for illegal guns, drugs, dog fighting is probably what ? Less than 1% ..if that?
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
#46
The 300th best decathlon athlete (No. 1 is considered the best athlete on land) and the 300th best 50 meter freestyle swimmer (No 1 is considered the best athlete in water) also do not earn much at all.
what about the 300th best pickle ball player? I bet plays to bigger audiences.
 

dman72

Hall of Fame
#50
So I'm only supposed to comment on things that bother me? No, I comment on many things. Whether they bother me is independent of whether they are factual.
They didn't seem factual for what reason? And what level of non-factuality triggered such a challenge where regularly non-factual statements trigger none? Wouldn't be an attempt to establish a holier than thou position now, would it? Nah. :rolleyes:
 
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