No one ACTUALLY believes Wawrinka could have defeated a healthy Nadal in the 14 AO Final, right?

Nole_King

Professional
The one thing I'll say about that tournament for Wawrinka is that it felt different than all the other times he came up short or indeed all the other times he played Nadal. So yes I honestly think this was a time when Wawrinka would've beaten Nadal regardless of any injuries that Nadal had. You could see it coming after AO and USO 2013. The breakthrough was imminent as soon as he beat Djokovic. It just so happened that the final was against Nadal.

Meme up healthy Nadal all you like. Feed me your H2H's and all the other BS, but I believe that particular tournament for Wawrinka (especially after he beat Djokovic) was just different. He was meant to win as cliche as that may sound.
Spot on. Wawrinka was on verge of a breakthrough. Novak had somehow fended him off at the AO and USO prev year and once he couldn't at AO 2014, it was very hard to stop him.

Other than 2015, Nadal's worst season, and this match, Wawrinka is 0-19 against Nadal with zero sets won.

41-0 in sets :laughing:
There's always the first time. Stan against Federer French Open 2015 ..
 
D

Deleted member 744633

Guest
why is it so hard to give Wawrinka credit for that win?

why does he need Nadal to be crippled with a broken back, SARS, Ebola, etc.

historically he doesn't do very well against Nadal, like at all, but his level in that final was insane and he was the better player, therefore he won, end of
For the same reason Federer fans attribute his losses in big matches in 2008 to non-existent mono. When fans expect a guaranteed victory and the opposite happens, the shock & disappointment are too great to bear so they explain it away using false claims.
 

alexio

Hall of Fame
Stan the Man deserved to win AO 14.
they all deserve, but i'm afraid life is more cruel than we could imagine here, roddick also deserved (wimby09), gonzostyle at ao07, tsonga at ao08, rockin robin at french09, birdman at wimby10, med at ao21, med at uso19, messi at wc14, etc. they all deserve..but... and the same fate woulda hit wawa (3 tiebreaks with birdman, 2 tiebreaks with sweet sugar tommy) with a situation while playing the healthy nadal
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
they all deserve, but i'm afraid life is more cruel than we could imagine here, roddick also deserved (wimby09), gonzostyle at ao07, tsonga at ao08, rockin robin at french09, birdman at wimby10, med at ao21, med at uso19, messi at wc14, etc. they all deserve..but... and the same fate woulda hit wawa (3 tiebreaks with birdman, 2 tiebreaks with sweet sugar tommy) with a situation while playing the healthy nadal
Nadal was pretty average at 2014 AO anyway.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Spot on. Wawrinka was on verge of a breakthrough. Novak had somehow fended him off at the AO and USO prev year and once he couldn't at AO 2014, it was very hard to stop him.



There's always the first time. Stan against Federer French Open 2015 ..
It's not just that. When did Magnus Norman join him? It was 2013, the same year that the Stanimal rose, and he was only getting better and better mentally and physically. The guy had a totally different look about him, using the matches that happened from before that period is like comparing a fight you had with a person when he had a yellow belt and think that result must yield the same outcome now that the guy has a black belt. That doesn't always happen, especially as Nadal himself was leaving his prime and wasn't the same player he was a few years back....Was Nadal injured? I say yes, he was injured in that match, however I am not going to go with the notion that had Nadal not been injured he was dead certain to win it, especially as he was now on the wrong side of his prime and Wawrinka was finally starting to unleash his full potential.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
I mean, I'm pretty sure it's a TTW meme, but some of you keep repeating this idea that Wawrinka could have had anything more than a snowballs chance in hell against a healthy Nadal in the '14 AO Final... so can everyone please confirm?






None of you are serious when you suggest this, right?

WRONG! It is true that Nadal probably beats Stan 4 out of 5 matches they would play but Stan is a streak player, who when at his best, can beat anyone on a given day. If Stan had been mentally tougher throughout his career he could have won a few more slams, at least.
 

ibbi

Legend
It's a stretch to believe someone who never took a set off of him before would beat him, especially in his first slam final, but that match at the Finals in 2013 was an absolute headache to sit through, Stan was 100% turning things around at this point in his career, and it's not like these transformations can't happen.

Medvedev had never taken a set off of Nadal before the 2019 US Open either. Granted, that's a lesser Rafa, but it's not like 2014 wasn't the beginning of a hell of a dip. Again, not suggesting he beats him, but throwing the record up like it would have been a guaranteed beatdown is a simplistic way of looking at it too.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
It's a stretch to believe someone who never took a set off of him before would beat him, especially in his first slam final, but that match at the Finals in 2013 was an absolute headache to sit through, Stan was 100% turning things around at this point in his career, and it's not like these transformations can't happen.

Medvedev had never taken a set off of Nadal before the 2019 US Open either. Granted, that's a lesser Rafa, but it's not like 2014 wasn't the beginning of a hell of a dip. Again, not suggesting he beats him, but throwing the record up like it would have been a guaranteed beatdown is a simplistic way of looking at it too.
Nadal played better in USO 2019 than in AO 2014. Clearly better IMO. Also, you can't compare Medvedev losing 1 match to Wawrinka losing 12 matches in straight sets.
 

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
Yeah yeah he's never healthy. Blah blah Nadal is an injured person who plays tennis. Someone spare me the swan song.
 

Nole_King

Professional
I thought this thread was about Stan? As always, it never takes more than 3 posts to bring Fed into it. :-D
Stan is a Swiss ... and so is Federer ... ;)
Although I doubt people bringing Federer in the discussion would even think this much before doing so :-D
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Let's not act like Nadal played well in the first set. These 3 missed second serve returns in a row were especially "great".
If we wanna start talking about very selective second serve returns, then Fed probably played a terrible match at Wimby 2008.

Nadal wasn't "good" in the first set, but the injury had not taken full effect by then. Essentially, that's our best indicator of what he would have looked like without it.
 

duaneeo

Legend
It's apparent Rafa suffered an injury early in the final. But I don't think it was an injury serious enough to cause the loss, and think Rafa lost mainly because it's the Australian Open (where, after winning his lone title, he's suffered losses to Murray, Ferrer, Berdych, Wawrinka, Verdasco, Cilic, Thiem, Tsitsipas, Federer, and Djokovic (2)).
 

brian anderson

Semi-Pro
I mean, I'm pretty sure it's a TTW meme, but some of you keep repeating this idea that Wawrinka could have had anything more than a snowballs chance in hell against a healthy Nadal in the '14 AO Final... so can everyone please confirm?






None of you are serious when you suggest this, right?

7 years later? timely. u show up to play then ur healthy enough to win or lose. move on
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
If that is the case, then explain this.


Federer 16
Soderling 1

Soderling taking his self professed worst match up out in destructive form. Match ups are not always the be all end all. There can be times, when he who is tormented hits back.
Better explain Soderling losing in straight sets to Federer in 2009, after beating Nadal earlier in the tournament. This is matchups. (and also mentality)
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Better explain Soderling losing in straight sets to Federer in 2009, after beating Nadal earlier in the tournament. This is matchups. (and also mentality)
Soderling did the exact same thing in reverse in 2010. Pretty close to the exact same level of play as well.
 

PilotPete

Professional
The bigger question is, would Nadal be Top 20 if he didn't cheat between points? Stamina is huge in today's tennis.
 

BGod

Legend
The 7-6, 7-6 ATP Finals should tell a lot. Wawrinka was improving against all the top guys. And Nadal was beginning his descent for the dreaded 2015-2016 period. His only other major title in 2014 apart from the French was a weak draw in Madrid where he beat Nishikori in the final due to a retirement (Kei won the first set).

Wawrinka's form was phenomenal there, and remember he lost to Novak 12-10 in the 5th set the year prior. He was zoning. Meanwhile Nadal struggled with Dimitrov in the QF and got Federer still in his slump in semis.

So you'd have to make a great argument why Wawrinka loses to be honest.
 
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