No-one can make you play ugly tennis

[zaph]

More an attitude things than a tip but it does wind me up. The I was dragged down to my opponents level/forced to play ugly tennis/not enough high quality opponents whine. Which generally include complaints about endless moon balls/lobs/short slices and junkballs.

Here is the thing, when you watch genuinely good players play against such players, they aren't "dragged down" to their opponents level; they impose their own game on their opponent. Good players have no problem handling junk and pushing.

Look I get it, I aint a good player and would dearly love to play aggressive tennis against such opponents. Bitter experience has taught me that pushing and junking back is my most effective way to deal with them. That however isn't me being forced to play ugly tennis by my opponent doing something unsporting and unfair. It is due to my own limitations.

It is the same when I beat somebody by pushing or they start pushing back to beat me. I can't force them to do anything, if they decide to push they haven't been dragged to my level, they simply aren't as good as they think they were.

So can we stop the complaints about ugly tennis? Moon balling, pushing and junk balling are all within the rules and legit plays. If your opponent decides to use that style against you, you can play any style you like to counter it. If you can't pull a more aggressive style off, that is on you. You can't complain and demand a better quality of opponent.

 

[Dragy]

The only issue is with the word “ugly”. If you leave that emotional part behind, yes, it’s very possible to be dragged into some type of tennis which is not your desired way of play. Both tactical and mentally one player can affect another one’s play. One can also fight back his preferred style and make the match follow his pattern (for good or for bad), but it’s not always a simple task.

 

[Steady Eddy]

I remember reading an interview with Jack Kramer. This was way past his peak playing years, he said that the arthritis in his arm was so bad that he had to play left-handed. His game consisted of chops and lobs.

Who would know better than a great serve and volley player how tough it can be to play someone like that?

So even Jack Kramer couldn't play serve and volley his whole life. For most of us that style will never work. We have to content ourselves with out-pushing a pusher.

 

[user92626]

Other than cheating and outright ill manner head hunting, I never complain about opponent's styles of playing. One thing we all can learn from pro's is they don't talk to each other. If there's any issues with opponent they talk to the umpire about it.

However, I do complain about my partner's styles of playing. Many styles of your partners may be at worst dangerous to you or at best a waste of your time. Hehe

 

[Steady Eddy]

Other than cheating and outright ill manner head hunting, I never complain about opponent's styles of playing. One thing we all can learn from pro's is they don't talk to each other. If there's any issues with opponent they talk to the umpire about it.

However, I do complain about my partner's styles of playing. Many styles of your partners may be at worst dangerous to you or at best a waste of your time. Hehe

Does that include slow play? I'll get guys telling war stories to their partner that never seem to end. So I dressed for tennis only to have some guy tell long stores while everyone stands around.

If that's what he wants to do, okay. But then just say you want to meet in a bar.

 

[zaph]

The only issue is with the word “ugly”. If you leave that emotional part behind, yes, it’s very possible to be dragged into some type of tennis which is not your desired way of play. Both tactical and mentally one player can affect another one’s play. One can also fight back his preferred style and make the match follow his pattern (for good or for bad), but it’s not always a simple task.

You can't be dragged down. For example I knew a player at my old club who had 125mph serve and huge topspin off both wings on his groundstrokes. Guess what he did when played a pusher or a junkballer? He blew them off the court playing his normal tennis. He was able to do that because he was good enough to impose his style of tennis on those weaker players.

If a player can't do that and is forced into pushing and junkballing to deal with pushers and junkballers. They haven't been dragged down to their opponents level, their true level has simply been exposed by a more defensive player.

 

[johnmccabe]

win with style is simply more demanding of all around skills. Most people don't have the capacity to win matches in the way that they prefer and then start to blame partner or opponent. It's part of the learning process and some people never outgrow that phase.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I do not accept the premise of this thread. I believe that this man can make you play ugly:

 

[user92626]

Does that include slow play? I'll get guys telling war stories to their partner that never seem to end. So I dressed for tennis only to have some guy tell long stores while everyone stands around.

If that's what he wants to do, okay. But then just say you want to meet in a bar.

It would have to be extremely slow though. Usually other people complain about that first before I even do.

I play from 9am to past 1pm. Weather can get pretty hot and trying. Alot of people do take their sweet time btw points and changeover. And it doesn't help that I play with alot of old people. haha Like 8 out 10 are older than me.

 

[mcs1970]

[

You can't be dragged down. For example I knew a player at my old club who had 125mph serve and huge topspin off both wings on his groundstrokes. Guess what he did when played a pusher or a junkballer? He blew them off the court playing his normal tennis. He was able to do that because he was good enough to impose his style of tennis on those weaker players.

If a player can't do that and is forced into pushing and junkballing to deal with pushers and junkballers. They haven't been dragged down to their opponents level, their true level has simply been exposed by a more defensive player.

Dragged Down is the wrong term. However even favored pros have struggled when the opponent came up with a game plan that took away their strengths. Ashe’s victory over Connors for example. It is not a given that a higher level player can always automatically force his will or game plan on the opponent.

 

[Purestriker]

I do not accept the premise of this thread. I believe that this man can make you play ugly:

Yes he can!

 

[Power Player]

I agree. You should be able to impose your will on a player. That said, it takes a lot of practice and match play to be consistent enough to do it. You also need to have a pretty complete game because a good junk baller will put defensive shots in uncomfortable spots on the court.

When I am rusty, I find myself making errors on shots and missing some of those tougher defensive counters. Once I get dialed back in, that goes away and I am able to keep my foot on the gas and impose my will throughout the match.

This stuff takes time and a lot of practice to execute on a consistent and steady basis.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I can make people play ugly, it might not be the ugly we all imagine, but left handed funky junk and serves, I have a strange ad side serve that is slow, low, and infuriating for hard hitters, I call it (out loud) the best serve in 3.5 tennis after I win points off of it. It's mostly trick shot tennis like Monfils kind of, but I've had 5.0 level players comment after matches that they had no idea what kind of serve was coming up next, what kind of backhand I was going to hit or how often I jammed them with spin, especially after doubles wins. No one watching the match would say those tactics are more "beautiful" than the 5.0 screaming groundies down the line or kick serving over my head, but more savvy players know the "ugly" style is a good tactic to mess up rhythm and I can "make" that happe on the opponent side.

I'm just saying I like to call it ugly tennis out loud, mind games, I call it dragging an opponent down to my level (in my head I don't believe that though). So, keep "ugly tennis" alive!

 

[zaph]

I can make people play ugly, it might not be the ugly we all imagine, but left handed funky junk and serves, I have a strange ad side serve that is slow, low, and infuriating for hard hitters, I call it (out loud) the best serve in 3.5 tennis after I win points off of it. It's mostly trick shot tennis like Monfils kind of, but I've had 5.0 level players comment after matches that they had no idea what kind of serve was coming up next, what kind of backhand I was going to hit or how often I jammed them with spin, especially after doubles wins. No one watching the match would say those tactics are more "beautiful" than the 5.0 screaming groundies down the line or kick serving over my head, but more savvy players know the "ugly" style is a good tactic to mess up rhythm and I can "make" that happe on the opponent side.

I'm just saying I like to call it ugly tennis out loud, mind games, I call it dragging an opponent down to my level (in my head I don't believe that though). So, keep "ugly tennis" alive!

My point is, you're not really dragging people down to your level, all you're doing is exposing their true level and weaknesses.

I have know lefty players like yourself and I have sometimes found their left spin unplayable and then I watch a good club level player play the same person and the lefty stuff doesn't cause them any issues.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

My point is, you're not really dragging people down to your level, all you're doing is exposing their true level and weaknesses.

I have know lefty players like yourself and I have sometimes found their left spin unplayable and then I watch a good club level player play the same person and the lefty stuff doesn't cause them any issues.

Understood, but even club level players (assuming that is really high) do have a bit of trouble with the junk-a-lefty.

 

[Bender]

My biggest weakness when I play against pushers or even low pace players, my lazy ass footwork gets even lazier and I get exposed. When that happens I try and find ways to deliberately overcompensate, which results in me getting the right amount of footwork, then it's fine again.

Not the best example, but somewhat recently, after some lazy social doubles, I played literally just two games of singles against this guy who said he was going to chop and dink everything because he was coming off an injury. I'd say he was a decent to strong 4.0 without injury based on his technical ability and strategy / shot selection. After having a minor scare almost losing my serve from 40-0 up with two UEs in a row trying to put away short slices, I set my footwork to what felt at the time like overdrive from 40-30, and it was instrumental in making sure I converted game point. What I did to jump start my footwork again was that I ran around my backhand more than usual to hit heavy topspin forehands and used that to pull him off the court. Didn't swing for the fences as I usually do, and deliberately extended the point to try warm up my feet a bit and recalibrate my contact point. With my footwork warmed up, I then broke to love. Then he said he couldn't continue, which I do think he meant sincerely.

The last time I played a true pusher though, I won 6-4 playing purely S&V at the beginning (which posters who know me will tell you I absolutely suck at), and I lost like three serve games in a row trying to make that blasted playing style work.

The good thing about starting that way though was that my feet were active right from the beginning, so I was breaking without ever getting to deuce, and when I did eventually give up on S&V and played my normal style I held easily.

win with style is simply more demanding of all around skills. Most people don't have the capacity to win matches in the way that they prefer and then start to blame partner or opponent. It's part of the learning process and some people never outgrow that phase.

Personally, I've found that people who blame literally anyone else but themselves for their own failures is a personality trait (and by extension a failure in upbringing), and not a learning process. You could show them a recording of the match, then point and count all their mistakes, and they will still blame their partner for setting them up for failure or their opponents for being lucky.

I will admit sometimes I get frustrated when I lose games and sets because of shank winners, net cord winners (partly because of the way I hit I find I never get the balls to dribble over like that), or because the opponent started talking or calling lines on balls landing on my side of the court when the point is still live, but that's a bit different to blaming my partner for being sucky or blaming my opponents for not playing real tennis. I've played against someone who on more than one occasion, when hitting a forehand return off a good serve, will half raise his non-dominant arm up with his index pointing at the sky as if to call the serve out, and act surprised that I caught the ball to hit a second second serve, then offers to replay the point. First serve then of course becomes a fault or I even end up double faulting. Says that arm raise thing is "for balance". Balance, my ass haha

 

[Arak]

I used to get very frustrated with pushers and junk ballers, until I started to learn how to play them. It’s just about problem solving and every pusher is different so I try to find the best way to counter them. It helps if you play them regularly. They win the first match then I start to figure them out. I don’t try to play the beautiful tennis, I just do whatever works.

 

[Crocodile]

In my opinion the bottom line is this: practise and train harder, cultivate your strengths and eradicate your weaknesses. Become fitter and stronger than your opponent and want it more. If you play your game better then your opponent can play his/her game you will prevail.
And finally don’t worry about what others think or say, that’s their problem, you just do what you need to do and the rest will sort itself out.

 

[AnyPUG]

So can we stop the complaints about ugly tennis?
...

You can't complain and demand a better quality of opponent.

Can we stop asking people to stop complaining?
Yes, you can demand better quality because it's your right to pursue happiness. It's okay to complain and ask for what you desire.

Some complain and some don't. The folks who don't complain often just 'pack up' and leave. Would you rather have people who complain and stick around or folks that leave in a hurry?

 

[sureshs]

It is about control. Pros have control, but it is unnoticed because of their pace, spin and footwork. For recreational adult players who did not play as a junior, there is a limit to how much control they will ever achieve. Some find it easier to achieve control with slices or chops on both flanks, because underspin is always a safe option. This approach does not work for those adults like me who like to challenge themselves playing against younger players who have played as juniors or against juniors themselves when their parents request. The balls just have too much topspin or pace for slices to have any impact most of the time. But for those whose goal is only to hang in with their age contemporaries at any point in time, this approach still works. It will stop working when the current crop of old people give up tennis and are replaced by a generation which grew up on topspin. Then, the slice and chop play will cease to be effective even at recreational levels.

 

[zaph]

Can we stop asking people to stop complaining?
Yes, you can demand better quality because it's your right to pursue happiness. It's okay to complain and ask for what you desire.

Some complain and some don't. The folks who don't complain often just 'pack up' and leave. Would you rather have people who complain and stick around or folks that leave in a hurry?

When they complain they are not asking for better quality opponents because if they struggle against pushers and junk ballers they are by definition no better than pushers and junkballers. They are asking for opponents who are in fact lower quality because they are easier to beat.

I have no problem with someone saying they don't enjoy playing such players and would rather not do it. My problem is with posters who pretend they are somehow better than junkballers and pushers and playing such players is beneath them.

 

[AnyPUG]

When they complain they are not asking for better quality opponents because if they struggle against pushers and junk ballers they are by definition no better than pushers and junkballers. They are asking for opponents who are in fact lower quality because they are easier to beat.

I have no problem with someone saying they don't enjoy playing such players and would rather not do it. My problem is with posters who pretend they are somehow better than junkballers and pushers and playing such players is beneath them.

Well, better quality is not necessarily "better quality opponents", it could be "better quality tennis competition" which is a PC term for more tolerance for current level of play. The context matters when the words are interpreted.

 

[Shroud]

Understood, but even club level players (assuming that is really high) do have a bit of trouble with the junk-a-lefty.

Lefty junk is handleable if you have a good bh. Problem is trying to hit forehands off the lefty serve

 

[ChaelAZ]

Brad Gilbert can. Just sayin'.

 

[nyta2]

I do not accept the premise of this thread. I believe that this man can make you play ugly:

beat me to it...
taking OP title literally, complete disagree... good junkers will absolutely make you play ugly (else lose "prettily"?)
OP probably meant, "no one can make you play a junker (dink, lob, push, etc...) style of tennis" which is often a bad idea especially if you don't practice that style of tennis.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Lefty junk is handleable if you have a good bh. Problem is trying to hit forehands off the lefty serve

It is amazing how many people on the ad side will try to run around the spin and hit a forehand, some wind up in the other court.

 

[nyta2]

It is amazing how many people on the ad side will try to run around the spin and hit a forehand, some wind up in the other court.

when i do it, i'm trying to channel my inner-nadal

 

[Shroud]

It is amazing how many people on the ad side will try to run around the spin and hit a forehand, some wind up in the other court.

yep. Thats why I make sure I play ad against lefties. The spin works great if I run around to hit the bh. On the fh the spin just bounces into contact wrong. I find on the fh I have to hit way more to the left of the target to make up for the spin.

Lefties should be illegal..