No tennis player will have the epilogue of the true GOAT of GOATS Diego Maradona

Bamoos

Semi-Pro
Who has more champions leagues? Who has most goals agaimst top opposition per game. It is ronaldo. Messi looks great against poor opposition then is anonymous against the best. Ronaldo produces when it matters.
Who has more league titles? Who was the focal point of the best team ever? Who absolutely destroyed ronaldo’s Real Madrid time and time again?

both guys rely on support. Madrid’s team gave Ronaldo a platform to perform same as Barcelona did 2008-2015.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Who has more league titles? Who was the focal point of the best team ever? Who absolutely destroyed ronaldo’s Real Madrid time and time again?

both guys rely on support. Madrid’s team gave Ronaldo a platform to perform same as Barcelona did 2008-2015.
Ronaldo led madrid to 3 consecutive CLs and Portugal to the Euros. Messi was nothing at Barcelona once Xavi and Iniesta left.
 

Bamoos

Semi-Pro
5 Cls - 4
1 international honour - 0.
Ronaldo has this all day
Nope. The above stats don’t speak anything to who is the better player.

Ronaldo wasn’t outstanding in Euros win. Messi was actually better in at least 2 copas and the 2014 World Cup as a runner up.

Football is a team game. You don’t get extra points for playing in a better team.
 

Thetouch

Professional
Yeah the amount of scores are pretty impressive on both sides. What Ronaldo has over Messi though is that he played in tougher leagues aside from Spain (England and Italy). However both benefit from modern rules because they are more protected by the referes as players from the past were. Sergio Ramos has collected like 26 red cards in his career. If he played in the 90s he would have had much less.
 

Bamoos

Semi-Pro
Ronaldo led madrid to 3 consecutive CLs and Portugal to the Euros. Messi was nothing at Barcelona once Xavi and Iniesta left.
He didn’t produce anything at the Euros, certainly nothing more than Messi in a few of his runner up finishes.

A long shot 1-0 winner from his team mate doesn’t end the debate between the two.

Nor does an extra CL when he’s far behind in league titles won.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Nope. The above stats don’t speak anything to who is the better player.

Ronaldo wasn’t outstanding in Euros win. Messi was actually better in at least 2 copas and the 2014 World Cup as a runner up.

Football is a team game. You don’t get extra points for playing in a better team.
Messi played in better teams yet still has been overshadowed by Ronaldo. Goals win games. Ronaldo has more goals.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Just a clueless set of comments, from someone who I suspect hasn’t seen Messi play much internationally or week in week out.

Argentina as a team has been horrifically unbalanced for years. Some great forwards but really lacking in midfield and attack.
Also I think reaching a World Cup final is a better achievement than Ronaldo winning the Euros.

If you look at that Portugal Euro 2016 win:

Group stage- Portugal drew 3 games against Hungary, Iceland, and Austria. 3 minnows compared to Portugal.
Portugal only scraped through to K/O phase despite finishing third in their group (based on GD vs other 3rd placed teams).
They then couldn't beat either Croatia or Poland in 90 minutes, relying on an extra time goal in R16 and a win on penalties in QF.

At this point Portugal were in the semi, hadn't won a single game within 90 minutes, and Ronaldo had only scored against Hungary (blanked vs everyone else).

Then in the SF Portugal faced Wales, who were probably on of the weakest Euro SF teams in history. Most of Wales players play in the championship (English tier 2).

Then the final was a very tough game, against France but Ronaldo got injured in minute 16 when it was 0-0. He didn't contribute at all to the 1-0 win.

The idea that this somehow reflects amazingly on Ronaldo is ridiculous. It doesn't even compare to Messi carrying Argentina to a World Cup final, where Higuain missed a sitter that could have won it for them.
 

Bamoos

Semi-Pro
5CLs. Come back when Messi produces in one big game. Not leading his team to a thrashing by Paris or Liverpool lol.
2008 CL final
2011 CL final
Numerous games in the excellent 2015 CL run
Countless winners and MOTM performances against Ronaldo’s RM team (notably in 2011 semi final)
Hat tricks against big teams in europe
2015/2016 copa america runs littered with goals assists and MOTM

keep embarrassing yourself lol.
 

Bamoos

Semi-Pro
Also I think reaching a World Cup final is a better achievement than Ronaldo winning the Euros.

If you look at that Portugal Euro 2016 win:

Group stage- Portugal drew 3 games against Hungary, Iceland, and Austria. 3 minnows compared to Portugal.
Portugal only scraped through to K/O phase despite finishing third in their group (based on GD vs other 3rd placed teams).
They then couldn't beat either Croatia or Poland in 90 minutes, relying on an extra time goal in R16 and a win on penalties in QF.

At this point Portugal were in the semi, hadn't won a single game within 90 minutes, and Ronaldo had only scored against Hungary (blanked vs everyone else).

Then in the SF Portugal faced Wales, who were probably on of the weakest Euro SF teams in history. Most of Wales players play in the championship (English tier 2).

Then the final was a very tough game, against France but Ronaldo got injured in minute 16 when it was 0-0. He didn't contribute at all to the 1-0 win.

The idea that this somehow reflects amazingly on Ronaldo is ridiculous. It doesn't even compare to Messi carrying Argentina to a World Cup final, where Higuain missed a sitter that could have won it for them.
Spot on.

Messi’s 2014-2016 Argentina performances were excellent, and he was largely let down by his team mates finishing.

Ronaldo’s Euros run wasn’t anything special as you clearly detailed. A 1-0 long shot win thanks to his team mate doesn’t make him superior.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Not only is Messi better statically, if you literally look at ANY metric, (goals per game, assists, trophies etc.), he's just obviously a superior player if you watch them both play.

Beckerserve said there were more examples of Ronaldo dribbling past the whole team and scoring, I posted 3 examples of Messi doing it, and so far CR7 fans have provided 0 in rebuttal.
 

Bamoos

Semi-Pro
Messi played in better teams yet still has been overshadowed by Ronaldo. Goals win games. Ronaldo has more goals.
Messi has most goals in season abs calendar year out of the two
More goals per game
More goals in the time period when both played in Spain.
More assists overall
 

Beckerserve

Legend
2008 CL final
2011 CL final
Numerous games in the excellent 2015 CL run
Countless winners and MOTM performances against Ronaldo’s RM team (notably in 2011 semi final)
Hat tricks against big teams in europe
2015/2016 copa america runs littered with goals assists and MOTM

keep embarrassing yourself lol.
Messi has never won a copa america or world cup. He has less CLs than Ronaldo despite being in better teams. Ronaldo obviously better.
 
Guys... there's a reason Messi never left the Spanish league... he knows he just couldn't compete in the Premier League or Serie A.
 

urban

Legend
Maradona was a man for the poor, against any kind of establishment, and his charisma filled the streets, when he was out in town in Latin America or in South Europe, and that before the world wide web was even invented. Even now, some 35 years after his prime, he is revered as a saint in Buenos Aires or Napoli. In the streets of Napoli you can see even now some pictures of hagiographic devotion of Maradona, next to pictures of the Madonna and Padre Pio. He was certainly not political correct, his handsball against Shilton was the biggest cheating in sports, apart from the doping scandals, of which Mardona had his share too. But that he got away with it, was even worse, and it was the fault of the FIFA, who should have banned him at Mexico 1886 for the last matches. You cannot compare him to the Rolex-and -influencer-generation of current tennis players, who are part of the establishment and big business. In sports, one could see this enthusiam on and of the streets only with Ali, and for a short time with Tyson.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Dude ronaldo has more goals. And more CL goals.
We've been through this. Messi has nearly as many goals as Ronaldo in far fewer games. In terms of overall goals when they retire, Messi will be miles ahead.

Messi has never won a copa america or world cup. He has less CLs than Ronaldo despite being in better teams. Ronaldo obviously better.
I've been through Ronaldo's 'Euro' win, and it was pathetic.
Looking at team achievements is secondary to individual achievements. But even if we look at trophies won by teams, Messi has won more trophies.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
We've been through this. Messi has nearly as many goals as Ronaldo in far fewer games. In terms of overall goals when they retire, Messi will be miles ahead.


I've been through Ronaldo's 'Euro' win, and it was pathetic.
Looking at team achievements is secondary to individual achievements. But even if we look at trophies won by teams, Messi has won more trophies.
Winning is pathetic? Since when lol. Ronaldo has a far bigger impact when it matters thats why he is better than Messi.
 

JasonZ

Professional
Outside of Argentina and Italy there wasn't so much fuss. Don't exaggerate. Also in soccer there are many legends like Messi, Pele, both Ronaldos, etc. Maradona wasn't above them. Also soccer is much more popular than tennis so it's unfair to compare, of course it would make a bigger impact, not to mention how soccer fans are known to be very passionate (sometimes in the wrong way). But I'm sure in Switzerland and Spain there would be a lot of reaction for Fedal.

But as popular as soccer players are, when Michael Jackson 2009 and Whitney Houston 2012 died, they were both the most googled words for those respective years (not only for people but for any words or themes searched on Google). I doubt Maradona would get close so it's hard to compare different sports or different entertainment fields.
you must be from usa. in every other country maradonas death was topic number 1.

whitney houston??? you really compare her to maradona and his worldwide popularity? outside from usa no one cared about her.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Winning is pathetic? Since when lol. Ronaldo has a far bigger impact when it matters thats why he is better than Messi.
I went through Portugal's route to the final.

You said you thought the WTF is devalued because of the group stage format.
In group stage, normally top 2 go through. Portugal drew all 3 games, and finished third, only going through on a technicality.

Ronaldo didn't score in R16 or QF, and Portugal didn't win either game within 90 minutes.
SF was vs Wales who are easy, and Ronaldo was injured against France in final.

I'm not saying winning is pathetic, but the idea that this proves anything for Ronaldo is absurd.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Is this another one of those threads where we have to pretend futbol players are more important just by the nature of them having more fans due to the sport being played in every poor country across the planet?
 

Thetouch

Professional
Maradona was a man for the poor, against any kind of establishment, and his charisma filled the streets, when he was out in town in Latin America or in South Europe, and that before the world wide web was even invented. Even now, some 35 years after his prime, he is revered as a saint in Buenos Aires or Napoli. In the streets of Napoli you can see even now some pictures of hagiographic devotion of Maradona, next to pictures of the Madonna and Padre Pio. He was certainly not political correct, his handsball against Shilton was the biggest cheating in sports, apart from the doping scandals, of which Mardona had his share too. But that he got away with it, was even worse, and it was the fault of the FIFA, who should have banned him at Mexico 1886 for the last matches. You cannot compare him to the Rolex-and -influencer-generation of current tennis players, who are part of the establishment and big business. In sports, one could see this enthusiam on and of the streets only with Ali, and for a short time with Tyson.
Agreed but as far as the hand of god goes, people need to finally realize one thing: Maradona had been fouled and tackled countless times on the pitch, he is the most attacked player in world cup history, that's a fact! And he was fouled many more times without the defenders being booked for it. So the way I see it, Maradona did what had been done to him his whole career, he cheated in a game once and scored with his hand. But many fould he received had never been booked.

Look at this foul here: his ankle was crashed in half and he went out for months. The guy who broke his ankle only got the yellow card. This is the foul that made his ankle got swollen up for the rest of his career because it got infected. During the World Cup 90 he had to be injected before every single match because his ankle had got so big and it was painful for him to play. Puma actually produced a custom made shoe for his left foot to fit in

 

urban

Legend
Its correct, players like Maradona or Romario were far more and harder fouled than todays players, who are better defended by the refs. There were "specialists" like the "butcher of Bilbao" or the brothers Gentile, who broke many legs and got away with it.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
My first football world cup was 1966.

1) Maradona was the only player I watched ever who could make a great team out of average players. Usually, team is as good as its weakest player and when you put a great player in a weak team, team is better but not yet great; with Maradona a weak team would become a great one. The best side I ever watched was Brazilian 1982 side, but they had a single weak spot (goalkeeper) and failed. Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer (and many other players later) were great, but they played in teams with other great players.

2) Maradona was a big match player (similar to Zidane and Brazilian Ronaldo). He was at his best when it was toughest.
 

BlueB

Legend
Been a hard week for all of us with the passing of probably the greatest ever sportsman this week.
The global reaction to his passing illustrated how revered and loved he was and it is hard to see any tennis player, even Nadal and Federer having such an effect on the entire globe as we saw this week.
In terms of trangressing a sport Maradona did that and then some.
Loved that guy so much. He did it his way and had charisma to burn.
Tennis players of this era bar perhaps Djokovic and Nick are perhaps too PC?
We'll never forget you!
 

Cecilia

Rookie
Whitney was a drug addict like Maradona and their addictions undoubtedly contributed to both their deaths.
Yes she was but her death was still more unexpected than Maradona's who just weeks ago had a surgery for blood clots. Whitney was way younger too
 
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Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
It's true that no tennis player's death shall evoke the emotions like Maradona's has. Then again, no footballer's will (with the possible exception of Pele).

Maradona was indeed the football GOAT, for dragging a mediocre Argentina side to the World Cup (and to another final), and Napoli, who were nobodies, to multiple Serie A titles and the UEFA Cup. He elevated average teams to trophy winning titans, something no other great has been able to do, to the same extent.

The constant Messi-Ronaldo debates in this thread are irrelevant. Neither are fit to tie the bootlaces of Diego Armando Maradona.
 

Cecilia

Rookie
Maradona is one if the greatest soccer players ever and what he did in the sport is unparalleled. Went to the poorest city in Italy and won a title for them. The people of Napoli's might not always had enough to eat but he gave them confidence in themself. By beating all the rich northern teams and winning the title twice. "The hand of god" would literally win games by himself as he did in the world cup.
He came from poverty to rise above all odds and touch the sky in the pitch that was inspiring to millions. Football is the most watched sport in the world so most tennis players cannot reach that impact. How many people watch the world cup compared to the grand slams? It is just not comparable and it isn't even relevant.
 
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