No tennis player will have the epilogue of the true GOAT of GOATS Diego Maradona

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, no. Federer will easily. Honestly Maradona's media coverage from his death is the only reason most people even think about him now. He was undoubtably a great player who is deserving of some attention over his passing but to me, Federer is at the very least equal, if not greater than him as a sportsman.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, no. Federer will easily. Honestly Maradona's media coverage from his death is the only reason most people even think about him now. He was undoubtably a great player who is deserving of some attention over his passing but to me, Federer is at the very least equal, if not greater than him as a sportsman.
How much do you think most people (normal people, not TTW) will be thinking about Federer 20 years after he retires?
 

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
How much do you think most people (normal people, not TTW) will be thinking about Federer 20 years after he retires?
Fair but i still think it will be more than Maradona. Federer was and still is a huge name in tennis and i doubt that in the next 20-30 years we will see another player with his talent, achievements and general charm and most importantly, likability. I'm not trying to play down Maradona as a sporting legend but i think Federer and maybe even Nadal will go down as bigger names in the media.
 

JasonZ

Professional
Fair but i still think it will be more than Maradona. Federer was and still is a huge name in tennis and i doubt that in the next 20-30 years we will see another player with his talent, achievements and general charm and most importantly, likability. I'm not trying to play down Maradona as a sporting legend but i think Federer and maybe even Nadal will go down as bigger names in the media.
never. football >>>>>>>> any other sport. the thread owner is right
 

USO

Banned
you must be from usa. in every other country maradonas death was topic number 1.

whitney houston??? you really compare her to maradona and his worldwide popularity? outside from usa no one cared about her.
You have no idea what you are talking about, Whitney was a worldwide legend, one of the best selling and greatest singers ever, all over the world. Much bigger than Maradonna except in Argentina.
 

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
How much do you think most people (normal people, not TTW) will be thinking about Federer 20 years after he retires?
More than maradona. Cause whenever people hear tennis, they either think federer, McEnroe or Borg. Maradona has been out of the limelight for quite a while. Almost everyone had accepted messi and ronaldo are better than him. It’s just this unfortunate news that has bought some emotional bias back into play. Same way people like Senna are regarded in f1. Not that it’s wrong. Just that it will continue to happen every time one of these greats passes.
 

JaoSousa

Hall of Fame
You have no idea what you are talking about, Whitney was a worldwide legend, one of the best selling and greatest singers ever, all over the world. Much bigger than Maradonna except in Argentina.
Where have you really lived to say that? I can tell you right now that(based on my experience) almost every middle class South Asian person knows who Maradona is. Whitney Houston was extremely popular in the western world, and she was well known, but nowhere close to being worshiped like Diego was in other parts of the world.

Anyway, this isn´t really a popularity contest. So it is better if we leave it right here.
 

JasonZ

Professional
You have no idea what you are talking about, Whitney was a worldwide legend, one of the best selling and greatest singers ever, all over the world. Much bigger than Maradonna except in Argentina.
********. we live in germany and my mom was at a whitney houston concert in the 1990s (she said it sucked). she didnt even notice when whitney died.

but despite she never watched football maradona was the only thing she talked about at her work the day maradona died and the following day.

maradona >>>>>>>>>>>> whitney houston everywhere, except usa, canada and probably australia and new zeeland.
 

JaoSousa

Hall of Fame
Agreed but as far as the hand of god goes, people need to finally realize one thing: Maradona had been fouled and tackled countless times on the pitch, he is the most attacked player in world cup history, that's a fact! And he was fouled many more times without the defenders being booked for it. So the way I see it, Maradona did what had been done to him his whole career, he cheated in a game once and scored with his hand. But many fould he received had never been booked.

Look at this foul here: his ankle was crashed in half and he went out for months. The guy who broke his ankle only got the yellow card. This is the foul that made his ankle got swollen up for the rest of his career because it got infected. During the World Cup 90 he had to be injected before every single match because his ankle had got so big and it was painful for him to play. Puma actually produced a custom made shoe for his left foot to fit in

He was fouled 103 times in 14 games he played across the 1986 and 1990 world cups. Unstoppable force.
 
as someone who doesn't really watch or follow soccer apart from a few major tournaments when I think of the greatest soccer players I think of Zidane, Ronaldo, Messi, Pele. Maradona is a fantastic player but I don't think he is the GOAT. Other players will receive just as much mention and rightfully so
 

GuyForget

Rookie
Were you not watching the news? Maradona was pretty much main news everywhere for 2 days.
Only players close to Maradona would be Pele and Cristiano Ronaldo but Maradona clearly ahead of both those legends.
Brazil ronaldo a category down. Messi and ronaldinho hugely overrated. Messi was propped up by xavi and iniesta. Fact he had no international title with Argentina speaks volumes. Maradona dragged an average team to a world cup. Messi failed in an Argentine side packed with superstars for a decade.!
if the hand of God had been disallowed + e.g. England won on penalties, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. genius yes, but he only really shone for 2 years, he was the best from what 84-87 - the documentaries on him show like 4 goals, one of which was handball + the other due to drugs? Messi has been a god since 2009, puts in 50 goals a year for a decade. The stars have to align to win a World Cup, + they did for Maradona because the linesman was a *****, they didn't for Messi because Germany were a vastly better team in 14 + he's only human. Actually, he's not .. I agree Messi+ CR should have done more in the later stages of World cups but overall their achievements and ability as athletes dwarf what Maradona did. Maradona's just more of a folk hero cos the public love tragic figures ... look at all the documentaries about Lance Armstrong, no one wants to watch one about Chris Frome ..
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
Guys, don't quarrel: Zidane is better than both Messi and Ronaldo and up there with Maradona and Mané Garrincha.

:cool:
Which nation do you favor overall in terms of the quality of football it produces?

Club level/int'l competition both fair game.

Who takes the game to the highest level?
 
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metsman

G.O.A.T.
Feel the way you feel about modern tennis about football with the weak era ?
I know very little about football(soccer to me), that's just my hot take (I don't actually think Messi/Ronaldo are weak era beneficiaries, but based on what I do know the talent in club soccer has concentrated a lot which makes it easier for them to put up insane numbers, I may be totally wrong though.). I do remember the aura and hype around Brazil Ronaldo in the late 90s when I was 12/13 years old, it was insane.

But based on my surface knowledge I am sure the modern talent pool in soccer(football) is very good since it's such a popular and financially attractive sport.
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
Outside of Argentina and Italy there wasn't so much fuss. Don't exaggerate. Also in soccer there are many legends like Messi, Pele, both Ronaldos, etc. Maradona wasn't above them. Also soccer is much more popular than tennis so it's unfair to compare, of course it would make a bigger impact, not to mention how soccer fans are known to be very passionate (sometimes in the wrong way). But I'm sure in Switzerland and Spain there would be a lot of reaction for Fedal.

But as popular as soccer players are, when Michael Jackson 2009 and Whitney Houston 2012 died, they were both the most googled words for those respective years (not only for people but for any words or themes searched on Google). I doubt Maradona would get close so it's hard to compare different sports or different entertainment fields.
LOL, Whitney isn't remotely in the same class as MJ. Granted nobody really is, but considering she wasn't even the biggest female pop star of her generation (that would be Madonna by some distance) you're really showing your parochialism here.

You must be kidding. Even american news channels were covering his death for days and doing specials about him. Have you even seen all the newspapers around the world? Maradona was on every cover. A french known newspaper said "God is dead". In fact Michael Jackson is the only one whose death was covered around the world the same way but no way was Whitney Houston#s death on the same level. Maradona and MJ became big at the same time and were about the same age, so hundreds of millions of people followed their careers.

And yes, Maradona was above Pele, Messi and the rest, there is no doubt about it. Not only was he the best player but he was the only one creating so many emotions for people all around the world.
Whitney died in early 2012 so obviously the search is for all of 2012 while Maradona died in late November, so he can't reach the same klicks for 2020.

I live in Europe. Whitney Houston was obviously covered more in the US than in Europe, just like Maradona was covered more around the world than in the US. But Maradona's name is way bigger than hers. There was a study done in the late 80s or early 90s by an american company and they found out that Maradona was the most famous person in the world back then even ahead of Michael.
I've addressed these points and more in the O&E Maradona thread, but to recap:

- I doubt my earliest name familiarity with Pelé vs. Maradona (as an old millennial to boot) is an outlier.
- Those polls and "studies" are very dubious as they tend to look at biased samples to begin with. (Diana's ranking in these polls is probably my "favorite" example.)
- As a general rule sports (yes even football) take a back seat to pop culture at large which at its most democratic transcends national and cultural boundaries.

Expanding on that last point, I like to browse international media following a big news event and I can tell you that the current coverage of Maradona's life and career, while indeed remarkable in scope, doesn't quite compare to the historic earthquake that was Michael Jackson's death. Case in point: I'm already seeing a dearth of Maradona links/articles on the main pages of Baidu/QQ (China), Yahoo! Japan, Naver (South Korea), Indiatimes, Yandex.ru, Tribunnews.com (Indonesia), Sabq (Saudi Arabia), Daily Post (Nigeria) and their ilk - and that's even when football is one of the trending topics - while MJ seemed to pop up nonstop for days if not weeks on these sites not long after TMZ got its biggest scoop ever. And unsurprisingly football isn't the dominant sport in most of these countries.

I understand this isn't an exactly fair comparison as Jackson was most likely the biggest superstar the world has ever seen, but let's say the news breaks that a (younger) Paul McCartney has met an untimely demise of his own. Would that lead to a similar amount of media attention and public outpouring? I think so, though it's an admittedly unprovable assertion.

And it's hard to see anyone of more recent vintage commanding such a wide audience today. I suppose Trump comes close as the guy is a walking news generator - I'll confess I was too shocked and horrified to do my usual media roundup that fateful night in November 2016 - but I keep returning to this eye-opening exchange I once had with an old dorm mate from Ghana who told me that many Africans can't even recognize POTUS or the pope by face while pretty much everyone knows who MJ (the moonwalker, though I think my bud also included the other one) or Madonna is. Of course I understand GWB's successors are pop culture icons in their own right that Bush never was, but many people just don't pay enough attention to politics to begin with and its innate division and partisanship all but precludes the possibility of universal appeal.

Most importantly, though, Jackson's best songs - "Billie Jean" above all, but also "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," "Beat It," "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'," "Bad," "The Way You Make Me Feel," "Smooth Criminal" and "Black or White," just to name a few he penned himself - are timeless pop masterpieces that will be played, covered and imitated for countless generations to come. And of course we all have our favorite Beatles tunes that we know by heart. That's their true legacy which will outlive just about all athletes past and present - including, yes, even Maradona, Pelé, Jordan, Messi, Ronaldo (either one), Tiger, Bolt, Phelps, Federer, Serena, King and their peers in our increasingly diverse culture.

Whitney was a drug addict like Maradona and their addictions undoubtedly contributed to both their deaths.
Diego's drug addiction was most likely a factor, but cardiac arrest could be due to a bunch of things and barring a clear link it's wise to exercise more caution.

Whitney's was obviously a more open-and-shut case, but the Whitney documentary recently dropped this bombshell* that accused Houston's cousin Dee Dee Warwick of sexually abusing Whitney and her brother Gary while babysitting them. (Alas Sissy Houston, the family matriarch, reportedly disowned her son for making his allegation public before bringing it to their attention.) The film goes on to suggest that the experience possibly scarred her for life, and while that's admittedly speculative I doubt it's much more so than the current attribution of Maradona's death to drug abuse.

*And I use that word very deliberately. When I saw the doc in a cinema there were these two guys who were annoyingly chatty for most of the screening, but even they were stunned into silence when the film began broaching the sexual assault allegation.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Outside of Argentina and Italy there wasn't so much fuss. Don't exaggerate. Also in soccer there are many legends like Messi, Pele, both Ronaldos, etc. Maradona wasn't above them. Also soccer is much more popular than tennis so it's unfair to compare, of course it would make a bigger impact, not to mention how soccer fans are known to be very passionate (sometimes in the wrong way). But I'm sure in Switzerland and Spain there would be a lot of reaction for Fedal.

But as popular as soccer players are, when Michael Jackson 2009 and Whitney Houston 2012 died, they were both the most googled words for those respective years (not only for people but for any words or themes searched on Google). I doubt Maradona would get close so it's hard to compare different sports or different entertainment fields.
This post is an error.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Agreed but as far as the hand of god goes, people need to finally realize one thing: Maradona had been fouled and tackled countless times on the pitch, he is the most attacked player in world cup history, that's a fact! And he was fouled many more times without the defenders being booked for it. So the way I see it, Maradona did what had been done to him his whole career, he cheated in a game once and scored with his hand. But many fould he received had never been booked.

Look at this foul here: his ankle was crashed in half and he went out for months. The guy who broke his ankle only got the yellow card. This is the foul that made his ankle got swollen up for the rest of his career because it got infected. During the World Cup 90 he had to be injected before every single match because his ankle had got so big and it was painful for him to play. Puma actually produced a custom made shoe for his left foot to fit in

Andoni Goikoetxea should have been judged in Nuremberg.
 
both ronaldo and messi have surpassed maradona.

yes maradona has the world cup win which is the greatest achievement, but if you look at the consistency and total body of work you just can't say he's the GOAT. also pele is more accomplished.
 

celito

Semi-Pro
Lol fluking. Ronaldo owns Messi in every stat. More goals, more CLs more international honours.
Messi has less goals but also many less games. Higher GPG. Also waaaay more La Ligas while Ronaldo was in Spain and winning record head to head. In the biggest clash between the 2 (CL SF) , Messi got the best of Ronaldo scoring 2 goals in 1st leg with Ronaldo going blank in both legs.
 

stefmeister

Rookie
never heard of Maradona tbh. but I have heard about Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray forever.

the real goat of goats is Rod laver.
 

USO

Banned
LOL, Whitney isn't remotely in the same class as MJ. Granted nobody really is, but considering she wasn't even the biggest female pop star of her generation (that would be Madonna by some distance) you're really showing your parochialism here.




I've addressed these points and more in the O&E Maradona thread, but to recap:

- I doubt my earliest name familiarity with Pelé vs. Maradona (as an old millennial to boot) is an outlier.
- Those polls and "studies" are very dubious as they tend to look at biased samples to begin with. (Diana's ranking in these polls is probably my "favorite" example.)
- As a general rule sports (yes even football) take a back seat to pop culture at large which at its most democratic transcends national and cultural boundaries.

Expanding on that last point, I like to browse international media following a big news event and I can tell you that the current coverage of Maradona's life and career, while indeed remarkable in scope, doesn't quite compare to the historic earthquake that was Michael Jackson's death. Case in point: I'm already seeing a dearth of Maradona links/articles on the main pages of Baidu/QQ (China), Yahoo! Japan, Naver (South Korea), Indiatimes, Yandex.ru, Tribunnews.com (Indonesia), Sabq (Saudi Arabia), Daily Post (Nigeria) and their ilk - and that's even when football is one of the trending topics - while MJ seemed to pop up nonstop for days if not weeks on these sites not long after TMZ got its biggest scoop ever. And unsurprisingly football isn't the dominant sport in most of these countries.

I understand this isn't an exactly fair comparison as Jackson was most likely the biggest superstar the world has ever seen, but let's say the news breaks that a (younger) Paul McCartney has met an untimely demise of his own. Would that lead to a similar amount of media attention and public outpouring? I think so, though it's an admittedly unprovable assertion.

And it's hard to see anyone of more recent vintage commanding such a wide audience today. I suppose Trump comes close as the guy is a walking news generator - I'll confess I was too shocked and horrified to do my usual media roundup that fateful night in November 2016 - but I keep returning to this eye-opening exchange I once had with an old dorm mate from Ghana who told me that many Africans can't even recognize POTUS or the pope by face while pretty much everyone knows who MJ (the moonwalker, though I think my bud also included the other one) or Madonna is. Of course I understand GWB's successors are pop culture icons in their own right that Bush never was, but many people just don't pay enough attention to politics to begin with and its innate division and partisanship all but precludes the possibility of universal appeal.

Most importantly, though, Jackson's best songs - "Billie Jean" above all, but also "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," "Beat It," "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'," "Bad," "The Way You Make Me Feel," "Smooth Criminal" and "Black or White," just to name a few he penned himself - are timeless pop masterpieces that will be played, covered and imitated for countless generations to come. And of course we all have our favorite Beatles tunes that we know by heart. That's their true legacy which will outlive just about all athletes past and present - including, yes, even Maradona, Pelé, Jordan, Messi, Ronaldo (either one), Tiger, Bolt, Phelps, Federer, Serena, King and their peers in our increasingly diverse culture.



Diego's drug addiction was most likely a factor, but cardiac arrest could be due to a bunch of things and barring a clear link it's wise to exercise more caution.

Whitney's was obviously a more open-and-shut case, but the Whitney documentary recently dropped this bombshell* that accused Houston's cousin Dee Dee Warwick of sexually abusing Whitney and her brother Gary while babysitting them. (Alas Sissy Houston, the family matriarch, reportedly disowned her son for making his allegation public before bringing it to their attention.) The film goes on to suggest that the experience possibly scarred her for life, and while that's admittedly speculative I doubt it's much more so than the current attribution of Maradona's death to drug abuse.

*And I use that word very deliberately. When I saw the doc in a cinema there were these two guys who were annoyingly chatty for most of the screening, but even they were stunned into silence when the film began broaching the sexual assault allegation.
Yes but that would still make Michael Jackson 200 times bigger than Maradona, Madonna 150 times than Maradona and Whitney Houston 100 times than Maradona. For the record go check who has more Spotify listeners, or YouTube views or people singing their songs, you'd be surprised that Whitney Houston is ahead of Madonna. They're both legendary but completely different. Whitney has had so many documentaries about her and an upcoming biopic by the makers of Bohemian Rhapsody. She is one of the biggest pop stars ever. She's also the most covered artist on singing talent shows all over the world.

I'd still give the nod to Madonna but that's mainly because she wanted attention and controversy which automatically brings more fame. If Whitney wanted to show her breasts, burn a cross in her videos and do stuff like that, she would have destroyed Madonna's media attention in one day. But she's up there as one of the Top females both in success and fame simply by singing with no gimmicks. She built her legacy on her talent alone, not using sex to sell like 90% of women.

But my main point is that you can't compare music superstars to soccer players. Outside of the World Cup once every 4 years and fans of soccer, nobody cares that much about Maradona. Those legendary music artists are loved EVERY DAY all over the world, played over and over on the radio, watched millions of times every day on YouTube, etc. It's not comparable. Listening to music is part of daily life of almost everyone, watching soccer is not.
 
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Thetouch

Professional
But my main point is that you can't compare music superstars to soccer players. Outside of the World Cup once every 4 years and fans of soccer, nobody cares that much about Maradona. Those legendary music artists are loved EVERY DAY all over the world, played over and over on the radio, watched millions of times every day on YouTube, etc. It's not comparable. Listening to music is part of daily life of almost everyone, watching soccer is not.
That's exactly why your Whitney > Maradona popularity contest makes no sense at all. Remember that ****ty Gangman style song or whatever it was called? It reached like over 2 billion views or more on youtube yet I can't even name the artist because nobody cares about him and not many people will care if he passes away, as hard as it sounds. Now Michael Jackson is a different story because he was influential to almost everybody and he had a long career since the age of 8 maybe. Since he was one of the biggest stars ever in the history of entertainment and regualrly on TV and commercials during the 80s and 90s he obviously is on a different level than most artists. But the fact that football generates millions and millions of views all around the world weekly also means that many football players are amongst the most popular persons on the planet.

Btw, If you had any clue about football you would know that a World Cup final usually generates around 1 Billion people on TV screens! Guess what? Maradona has played 2 World Cup finals which means around 2 Billion people actually watched him playing LIVE for 180 minutes. Whitney is not even close to being in the same league to him, let alone MJ.
 
Fair but i still think it will be more than Maradona. Federer was and still is a huge name in tennis and i doubt that in the next 20-30 years we will see another player with his talent, achievements and general charm and most importantly, likability. I'm not trying to play down Maradona as a sporting legend but i think Federer and maybe even Nadal will go down as bigger names in the media.
Firstly, we already have 2 players who have reached his achievements (and soon to surpass).
Secondly, zero chance Federer will end up being a bigger name than Maradona (and this coming from someone who is not at all a football/soccer fan).
 

Feather

Legend
Fair but i still think it will be more than Maradona. Federer was and still is a huge name in tennis and i doubt that in the next 20-30 years we will see another player with his talent, achievements and general charm and most importantly, likability. I'm not trying to play down Maradona as a sporting legend but i think Federer and maybe even Nadal will go down as bigger names in the media.
With all due respect to Roger and Rafa, they will not get the same status as what Diego Maradona got even after two decades of leaving the game.
Tennis is an elite sport while Football is a popular one. Football is the most popular sport in the world and nothing is even remotely close.
 

alexio

Hall of Fame
This is really what I call writing under the effects of coke.
bueno, viste hace poco que los pantalones de nostradamus son iguales en todas las direcciones:laughing:(el que es mas rapido es el mas grandioso;)), todo es simple, asi que continuando con esta divertida nota puedes tocar un poco y decir algo gracioso como lo que dije aqui, ciertamente soy un idiota decente , pero no lo suficiente como para tomar en serio lo dicho, espero que no lo haya pensado
 
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