No tennis player will have the epilogue of the true GOAT of GOATS Diego Maradona

Hmm, but in the 2 seasons Maradona was at Barcelona, he didn't win La Liga once. Serie A is lower standard than La Liga in general.
But yeah, it will be interesting to see how Messi does if he transfers to another team next season.
You seem to not know much about his stay at Barcelona: he was ill with Hepatitis and then came the dreadful incident with the broken ankle (after a tackle from another player. He had to take injections pretty much for the rest of his career as that ankle was chronically inflamed). Then the xenophobic mania against him culminated in the mass melee in the 1984 Copa del Rey final after which he was sold. He still managed to win the Supercup and the Copa del Rey.

:cool:
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
You seem to not know much about his stay at Barcelona: he was ill with Hepatitis and then came the dreadful incident with the broken ankle (after a tackle from another player. He had to take injections pretty much for the rest of his career as that ankle was chronically inflamed). Then the xenophobic mania against him culminated in the mass melee in the 1984 Copa del Rey final after which he was sold. He still managed to win the Supercup and the Copa del Rey.

:cool:
He did have 36 appearances for Barcelona over 2 seasons, so it’s not like he couldn’t play at all.
As for xenophobia, that’s completely intolerable and sad to hear.
 
He did have 36 appearances for Barcelona over 2 seasons, so it’s not like he couldn’t play at all.
As for xenophobia, that’s completely intolerable and sad to hear.
Yeah, being forced to play to justify his record transfer while recovering from a broken ankle is just the measure to use to gauge how good he was.

Sometimes .....

:cool:
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Maradona vs Messi is such a dumb debate.

Football wise, it's Messi by a country mile, but he didn't win the WC cause he couldn't cheat as hard as Maradona and because Higuain.

I'll give Maradona the bigger personality. But that's not much of a challenge.
Yeah, Messi has better individual stats (even more goals, and goals per game for Argentina) but lots of casual fans just look at World Cup wins.
Always beware of looking at team honours when judging individuals. As you alluded to, modern officiating would have ruled out both goals in Argentina’s 2-1 QF win over England in 1986.
And Higuain scoring the sitter would have likely won the WC for Argentina in 2014 final.

Messi’s Argentina squad had no good midfield or defence. It’s the equivalent in tennis of having great volleys, but a leg injury meaning you can’t run forward.
 

urban

Legend
Argentina and Napoli weren't that bad teams in the 1980s, Burruchaga and Valdano for example were pretty good players, Careca and Alemao also. The German side in 1986 was not the best side, with Rummenigge and Völler being injured. I remember, that Milan in the later 1980s, when they got the Dutch trio of van Basten, Gullit and Rijkaart were destroying Napoli with Maradona. But Maradona was immensely popular, because he made the dream of the poor come true.
For a mourning, by the people, not by the media, of a singer better look to the mourning for James Brown, who was a real peoples hero. I remember, that one pop idol wanted to lay down next to him.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
In conclusion:

Fedal > Michael Jackson > Whitney Houston > Maradona > Djokovic

Good night :cool:
I have no idea how you can possibly think Fedal are more famous than Michael Jackson. I mean it isn't even close. Michael Jackson could go on a stadium tour of less than 70 shows and see more than 4 million people. That's an average of 58,000 people per show and we are talking about every corner of the globe from North America, South America, all over Europe, Russia, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, India, Philippines, Australia and Africa. In my lifetime I have never seen any musician be able to do that. Then you are talking about someone who was worshipped like some god at his peak and was infamous everywhere, whose music reached every corner of the Earth. It's hard to compare athletes to musicians anyway because music is an artform of expression that more people can relate to and tennis, a sport that isn't even the most popular globally, and far down the list in the Americas, cannot compete with that. Michael Jackson was next level of celebrity of fame and hardly anyone ever can compare but two tennis players do?
 
Alf always called me by my full name of Norbert. Just before the Portugal match he took me to one side and said: 'Norbert, I want you to take Eusebio out,'" Stiles said.

"I replied: 'Do you mean for the game Alf, or for good?'"
He was before my time, but I have watched a lot about him and what others have said during the years. He did what he had to do, and what he could get away with, which for the today's standards is too much. However, Ramsey always insisted that Stiles didn't do these things with an intention to hurt, while similar incidents (including the one with Maradona) were done with that exact purpose.

:cool:
 
Last edited:

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Outside of Argentina and Italy there wasn't so much fuss. Don't exaggerate.
True.

Also in soccer there are many legends like Messi, Pele, both Ronaldos, etc. Maradona wasn't above them. Also soccer is much more popular than tennis so it's unfair to compare, of course it would make a bigger impact, not to mention how soccer fans are known to be very passionate (sometimes in the wrong way). But I'm sure in Switzerland and Spain there would be a lot of reaction for Fedal.

But as popular as soccer players are, when Michael Jackson 2009 and Whitney Houston 2012 died, they were both the most googled words for those respective years (not only for people but for any words or themes searched on Google). I doubt Maradona would get close so it's hard to compare different sports or different entertainment fields.
Ahhh. Perspective.

Maradona was a great in his sport, but he was not a global pop-culture phenomenon that transcended his sport (for a number of reasons) to the degree that the average person on the street would know his name or recognize his face, even if they do not watch soccer. Few in modern day sports have that kind of impact, but Maradona was not one of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: USO
I can't listen to any more of this nonsense.

He was a horrible person. Just because he was a great football player somehow we should revere him as a deity? Forget it.
 
Maradona was a great in his sport, but he was not a global pop-culture phenomenon that transcended his sport (for a number of reasons) to the degree that the average person on the street would know his name or recognize his face, even if they do not watch soccer. Few in modern day sports have that kind of impact, but Maradona was not one of them.
There is a demographic discrepancy. Almost everyone 35 or above in a nation that is interested in football knows who Maradona is. If one doesn't know he is either not from such a nation, or relatively young. I would assume that your statement about "modern day sports" is limited to the last 20 years or so.

:cool:
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
He was before my time, but I have watched a lot about him and what others have said during the years. He did what he had to do, and what he could get away with, which for the today's standards is too much. However, Ramsey always insisted, that Stiles didn't do these things with an intention to hurt, while similar incidents (including the one with Maradona) were done with that exact purpose.

:cool:
''His tackle was mistimed, rather than malicious.'' Gotta say fair play to Alf Ramsey for sticking to his guns at the world cup. Nobby Stiles' international career is fascinating to me. Not that many caps and only made his debut the year before the world cup. But what an impact he made. I've watched what I can of him over the years.

Yeah, standards have changed all over the place. You think about goals ruled out or not ruled out etc. they finally gave in and use the video assistant. It's not perfect, many hate it, but you would never see a hand of God again. I remember a clear goal for Spurs against Roy Carroll and we got away with that one. That was great. Not today. haha
 
Maradona was a great in his sport, but he was not a global pop-culture phenomenon that transcended his sport (for a number of reasons) to the degree that the average person on the street would know his name or recognize his face, even if they do not watch soccer. Few in modern day sports have that kind of impact, but Maradona was not one of them.
Wow, saying this about the guy who literally embodies this trope.
 

6august

Hall of Fame
Hmm, but in the 2 seasons Maradona was at Barcelona, he didn't win La Liga once. Serie A is lower standard than La Liga in general.
But yeah, it will be interesting to see how Messi does if he transfers to another team next season.
Seria A is lower standard nowadays.

Back in Maradona time, La Liga is lower standard than serie A.

During the 80's, Italian clubs won European Cup (Champions League) 3 times and made 2 other finals. Spanish clubs only made 2 finals.

What does it tell )))
 

6august

Hall of Fame
Keep in mind that in the 80's, Real Madrid won 5 consecutive la Liga and could NOT made any single European Cup final.

La Liga is higher standard than Serie A in those days??? Ha ha ha.
 

Thetouch

Professional
Maradona is a legend, and one of the most iconic sportsmen of all time.

But I disagree with your assessment there, and there's overwhelming evidence you're wrong.
Messi's goals, and goals per game, is actually higher than Maradona for both club AND country:

Messi: Club- 447 goals in 493 games; Country- 71 goals in 142 games
Maradona: Club- 259 goals in 491 games; Country- 34 goals in 91 games

According to Wikipedia, Messi also has more assists and assists per game than Maradona, so he not only scored at a great rate, but assisted at a greater rate.
He has also won more trophies during his career. La Liga is a higher quality league than either Argentinian Domestic League or Serie A, which forms most of Maradona's club matches.

I guess the main argument for Maradona would be that he won the World Cup once while Messi didn't.
But we have to be very careful in using team achievements to judge a player, especially when the sample size is 1 tournament.

In WC final of 2014, Higuain had an absolute sitter, and if he had scored, Argentina likely would have won that final. Meanwhile, Maradona's World Cup win in 1986 had great controversy. They won the QF vs England 2-1. The hand of god was obvious. Even Maradona's second goal, which was a wonder goal, came after another Argentinian player fouled an English player so Maradona could get on the ball. So both goals would have been disallowed with higher officiating standards.
The idea that Argentina's CF missing a sitter, and the officiating not ruling out 2 goals that shouldn't have counted in 1986, should suddenly mean Messi's far superior statistics across his career gets overruled is absurd.
As most Messi (and Ronaldo fans) you are using general stats to confirm him as the GOAT without context. Let's settle something down here just for the records though. Messi and Ronaldo will become GOATS as far as club titles, scorings, Ballon D'or etc goes and they well deserve it. But these stats only show half the story. Maradona will never be the GOAT in terms of titles but hundreds of millions of people see him as the BEST in terms of Football abilities and that's what matters, doesn't it? Pele is a 3 time World Champion yet he only played 14 games to achieve that. Right there you have the first example of a stat that only shows half the story because it needs context otherwise it doesn't make any sense. He is a 3 time champion but only played 4 games in his first World Cup and 1 game and in his 2nd WC, so in 5 games he already won 2 WC trophies. lol

Now let's focus on Messi and Ronaldo. First of all the La Liga is weak compared to what the Seria A used to be in the 80s and 90s and even to the La Liga of the 80s and 90s. Football back then was not only highly defensive, it was ruled by italian catenaccio style and was much more physical. The scores were usually very tight. Most strikers could rarely score around 15-20 goals in one season and the Seria A used to have the best players in the world as well because they had the most money. La Liga has Barcelona and Real Madrid, that's it but Italy had teams with big money who bought stars from all around the world like Milan, Inter, Juentus, Napoli, Lazio, Roma, Fiorentina, Parma etc these teams had some all time greats under contract.

But more importantly back in the day football allowed defenders to kick, punch and tackle strikers for 90 minutes without getting booked as easily as nowadays, let alone receiving the red card. Nowadays the players are highly protected by the rules, you can't tackle someone from the back otherwise you get the red card but that is what Maradona had to deal with every single game in his career! Look at Sergio Ramos, that guy has collected almost 30 red cards so far because it's too easy to be sent out.

Another thing is that nowadays you can play with 11 Superstars from all around the world. It was not possible in 80s and up to the mid 90s. Only 3 foreign players (in Italy at some point only 2) were allowed to play at once! If those rules were still on then Messi would have never had the chance to play with Neymar, Suarez, Alvez, Mascherano, Rafinha at the same time (or Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Deco and Henry when he was young) and Ronaldo would have never been able to play along the side of Marcelo, Pepe, Di Maria, Khedira, Kroos, Modric, Silva, Kaka, Bale und Benzema.

And here is another thing: how many of you younger football fans do even know that the Champions League used to be played only by the CHAMPIONS up to 1998? Messi and Ronaldo have been playing the CL every damn year since maybe 2004 or 2005. Why? Because now you can finish 4th in La Liga or the PL or the Seria A and still qualify for the CL. That was not possible in the past! Maradona only played the CL twice in his career, while Messi and Ronaldo have played the CL like 30 times combined. lol So that's why they have both won it like 5 times each with much superior teams as well. Back then every team who didn't win the national championship went straight to the UEFA Cup which means the UEFA Cup was basically like a CL itself without the champions. But you had all the other great teams in it like Manu, Real, Dortmund, Inter, Juventus, Arsenal, Ajax etc. Maradona has played the UEFA Cup maybe 4 times and won it once.

Now let's take a look at the stats that matter most because they show the real deal and what the players are made of.

Messi and Ronaldo have played 4 World Cups each and countless Copa Americas and European Cups. It's fair to say that they both sucked in almost all of these tournaments. Ronaldo won the EC 2016 but it's not like people remember him for his performances. Messi made it to the WC final in 2014 but he barely was noticable after scoring against such big teams like Bosnia and Iran. They both have scored less goals and have less assists than Maradona. Maradona has the record for most World Cup assists and he would have more if he didn't play with guys who couldn't even score with empty goals (cough Valdano cough). Maradona played 4 WC and only 2 Copas. He finished 3rd twice in both Copas and in one of them he scored the most goals. However let's focus on the World Cups.

Maradona set some records that are still on and will most likely never be broken:

WC 1982:

- he is being fouled almost 40 times in 5 games - to this day this is 3rd in the all time ranking. Just in comparisson, Pele was fouled 42 times in all of his World Cup games combined.

- against Italy he was fouled 23 times - which is still the alltime record for a single WC game. Can you imagine what it would mean nowadays? It would mean that half of the italian squad would have to be sent off of the pitch.

WC 1986:

- he was fouled 53 times- to this day this is the alltime record for a single WC tournament

- he scores 5 goals und 5 assists - to this day a record
- he is involved in 13 out of 14 argentinian goals
- he does the most and most successful dribblings ever done in a World Cup, still a record
- he also sets a record for most received freekicks and most executed crosses and shots in a single WC which proves how much more he worked than any player in history

WC 1990

- he is injured the whole World Cup because his ankle that was broken years before got infected and he also had a bruised toe (he had to be injected before every match) and yet he still gets fouled 50 times (2nd alltime best after 86 and 82) - which means Maradona holds all records for the most fouled player in WC history. Neither Messi and Ronaldo nor Pele are even in the top 5

These stats are important because they show the number of times Maradona had been prevented from scoring and assisting goals more than any player in history. If you watch the World Cup 1982 he was only 21 and was already the best player in the tournament or at least up there but the difference to 1986 was that the referees didn't even try to protect him, he was butchered against Italy and Brazil and had almost no support from his team mates either. There is a good chance that had Argentina made it to the 82 final that Maradona could have been fouled up to 60 times in that world cup.

So in the end yeah Messi and Ronaldo have better overall stats but if you look closer than Maradona is simply superior to any player in history because he was fouled and tackled the most and still became World Champion, still won Seria titles and a european Cup with mediocre teams while being a heavy coke addict.
 

Thetouch

Professional
Hmm, but in the 2 seasons Maradona was at Barcelona, he didn't win La Liga once. Serie A is lower standard than La Liga in general.
But yeah, it will be interesting to see how Messi does if he transfers to another team next season.
He won 2 other titles in Barcelona. However he only played 58 matches and scored 38 goals. He got his ankle broken and was out for months and then he got infected with hepatitis. In both his seasons he only played 17 games I believe and scored 11 or 12 goals in each season. Again you have to look at the context not just raw stats of titles
 

JasonZ

Professional
Maradona vs Messi is such a dumb debate.

Football wise, it's Messi by a country mile, but he didn't win the WC cause he couldn't cheat as hard as Maradona and because Higuain.

I'll give Maradona the bigger personality. But that's not much of a challenge.
maradona in 1986 had valdano who screwed multiple chances. 2014 argentina was stronger than 1986 argentina. yes, maradona cheated, but his performance was still million times better than messis at all world cups combined.
 

JasonZ

Professional
Yeah, Messi has better individual stats (even more goals, and goals per game for Argentina) but lots of casual fans just look at World Cup wins.
Always beware of looking at team honours when judging individuals. As you alluded to, modern officiating would have ruled out both goals in Argentina’s 2-1 QF win over England in 1986.
And Higuain scoring the sitter would have likely won the WC for Argentina in 2014 final.

Messi’s Argentina squad had no good midfield or defence. It’s the equivalent in tennis of having great volleys, but a leg injury meaning you can’t run forward.
2014 argentina had a very good defense in the ko stage, what are you talking about? their goalkeeper sergio romero was also great. messi simply didnt deliver. he totally underperformed.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
2014 argentina had a very good defense in the ko stage, what are you talking about? their goalkeeper sergio romero was also great. messi simply didnt deliver. he totally underperformed.
Their defence was Zabaleta, Demichelis, Garay, and Rojo.

That's absolutely awful. Unbelievable that's even an International defence of any nation.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
@Thetouch

You are focusing too much on World Cup which is a tiny sample size of matches.
Again, if Higuain had scored a sitter in the WC final, Argentina and Messi would have won the World Cup.

Maradona's World Cup win frankly has a massive asterisk. Handball goal in the QF against England. And even the second wonder goal should have been ruled out due to a foul by another Argentinian player right before Maradona got the ball. They only won that match 2-1.
 
@Thetouch

You are focusing too much on World Cup which is a tiny sample size of matches.
Again, if Higuain had scored a sitter in the WC final, Argentina and Messi would have won the World Cup.

Maradona's World Cup win frankly has a massive asterisk. Handball goal in the QF against England. And even the second wonder goal should have been ruled out due to a foul by another Argentinian player right before Maradona got the ball. They only won that match 2-1.
If, if, if ... doesn't exist.

:cool:
 

Thetouch

Professional
@Thetouch

You are focusing too much on World Cup which is a tiny sample size of matches.
Again, if Higuain had scored a sitter in the WC final, Argentina and Messi would have won the World Cup.

Maradona's World Cup win frankly has a massive asterisk. Handball goal in the QF against England. And even the second wonder goal should have been ruled out due to a foul by another Argentinian player right before Maradona got the ball. They only won that match 2-1.
No I am focussing on context to show you that those 5 CL trophies, national titles and goals have taken place under the best possible circumstances because you can build a team of 11 Superstars now and have the protection of the refs as well. The fact is that World Cups are played on the highest physical level and if you fail there regularly then it should be highly doubtful to be called a GOAT.

And how many times are you mentioning that Higuain thing? I have heard this nonsense for years but why didn't Messi score in 120 minutes? Why didn't he do something special? Even if Argentina had won that game Messi was light years behind the performance of Maradona anyway. Have you ever seen how Valdano, Buruchaga and even players like Canniggia missed chances to score when Maradona assisted them? Of course not because all you know is that Maradona used his hand to score, that's all you have lol
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
Once Maradona suggested that it is a greater success to score illegally and trick the Umpire than to do it legally. If you do it legally you just beat the opposition, while if you do it illegally and goal stands you beat the opposition plus the system. He described his joy after "Hand of God" by saying "I felt like I stole a wallet from an Englishman". He considered that tricking Umpire by his celebration (usually players hesitate little bit with celebration when scoring illegally, but he did not) was more of success than scoring legally.
 
Last edited:

Amritia

Hall of Fame
The fact is that World Cups are played on the highest physical level and if you fail there regularly then it should be highly doubtful to be called a GOAT.
I think club level is higher level than international matches, as these players can train together for the whole season. International team is players who don't play together trying to get to know each other quickly. Looking at a larger sample size always makes more sense than looking at a small sample size.
Also anyone who watches Messi knows that he's hardly reliant on his team mates. He's a genius who makes things happen, his dribbling is sublime, and one of the best passers ever seen (hence more assists per game than Maradona).
 

Thetouch

Professional
I think club level is higher level than international matches, as these players can train together for the whole season. International team is players who don't play together trying to get to know each other quickly. Looking at a larger sample size always makes more sense than looking at a small sample size.
Also anyone who watches Messi knows that he's hardly reliant on his team mates. He's a genius who makes things happen, his dribbling is sublime, and one of the best passers ever seen (hence more assists per game than Maradona).
The world cup performances mirror a player's performances in the club, at least when it comes to Maradona's career because he was fouled the same way in Argentina, Spain and Italy and had to deal with the same defensive tactics and physicallity. That's where Messi lacks. His WC and even Copa performances take a huge drop compared to Barcelona. Messi's stats as good as they are over inflated due to the circumstances. Of course he can score 50 goals each season when he plays in a team worth of 1 billion Euros while he gets protected as well and had players like Iniesta and Xavi supporting him and caring the pressure too.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Cristiano lol. His one time coach and mentor Sir Alex Fergusson called Messi the GOAT, even as recently as 2018. Cristianos old team mates Rooney, Scholes and Rio all called Messi the GOAT. What do you make of that? Why would they prefer Leo over their boy?
Erm you made that up. Ferguson as Ronaldo ahead of Messi as does Roy Keane. Rooney hates ronaldo so no surprise there and Ferdinand has never said who is better actually just both the best since Maradona.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Erm you made that up. Ferguson as Ronaldo ahead of Messi as does Roy Keane. Rooney hates ronaldo so no surprise there and Ferdinand has never said who is better actually just both the best since Maradona.
@Beckerserve
You said Xavi and Iniesta were both better than Messi. I respect your tennis analysis, but perhaps when it comes to football you don't follow it too closely?
 

Beckerserve

Legend
@Beckerserve
You said Xavi and Iniesta were both better than Messi. I respect your tennis analysis, but perhaps when it comes to football you don't follow it too closely?
Iniesta v Messi is close. Ask any Barca fan who they rate more they will say Xavi. Xavi was unbelievable. More to being a great footballer than dribbling. Barcelona never recovered after Xavi reitred.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
The world cup performances mirror a player's performances in the club, at least when it comes to Maradona's career because he was fouled the same way in Argentina, Spain and Italy and had to deal with the same defensive tactics and physicallity. That's where Messi lacks. His WC and even Copa performances take a huge drop compared to Barcelona. Messi's stats as good as they are over inflated due to the circumstances. Of course he can score 50 goals each season when he plays in a team worth of 1 billion Euros while he gets protected as well and had players like Iniesta and Xavi supporting him and caring the pressure too.
Do you actually watch Barcelona play? It's just not the case that Messi is reliant on others supplying him. He gets the ball, does intricate dribbling to get past many defenders, and scores.

As for his performances for Argentina, he's actually got more goals for country than Maradona, and has a better goal/game ratio. The only thing you can point to is that while Argentina in 2014 came very close, they actually won it in 1986. But let's be frank, given they only got through by cheating, the win is asterisked by me.
The fact you ignore all the statistics and data, just on the basis of a small margin of a 117th minute goal loss vs an asterisked win, is ridiculous.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Iniesta v Messi is close. Ask any Barca fan who they rate more they will say Xavi. Xavi was unbelievable. More to being a great footballer than dribbling. Barcelona never recovered after Xavi reitred.
If you think Xavi is better than Messi you are absolutely clueless about football, sorry.
You just said any Barca fan will rate Xavi over Messi.. fine.
Show me ONE example of a professional player, former player, or coach who says that Xavi is better than Messi. One.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
if the hand of God had been disallowed + e.g. England won on penalties, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. genius yes, but he only really shone for 2 years, he was the best from what 84-87 - the documentaries on him show like 4 goals, one of which was handball + the other due to drugs? Messi has been a god since 2009, puts in 50 goals a year for a decade. The stars have to align to win a World Cup, + they did for Maradona because the linesman was a *****, they didn't for Messi because Germany were a vastly better team in 14 + he's only human. Actually, he's not .. I agree Messi+ CR should have done more in the later stages of World cups but overall their achievements and ability as athletes dwarf what Maradona did. Maradona's just more of a folk hero cos the public love tragic figures ... look at all the documentaries about Lance Armstrong, no one wants to watch one about Chris Frome ..
Messi has failed to deliver when it matters. Have seen him anonymous in numerous El classicos copa america and world cups. Maradona and CR7 always deliver when it matters. Also football was a far higher standard in Maradonas era then it is now. It was a mans game with full contact back then. Now it is a non contact sport with diving a skill.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Messi has failed to deliver when it matters. Have seen him anonymous in numerous El classicos
I'm sorry, but this is just more evidence you don't know much about football.
Messi is the RECORD goal scorer in El Clasico. He has a better goal/game ratio than CR7 in El Clasico.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Do you actually watch Barcelona play? It's just not the case that Messi is reliant on others supplying him. He gets the ball, does intricate dribbling to get past many defenders, and scores.

As for his performances for Argentina, he's actually got more goals for country than Maradona, and has a better goal/game ratio. The only thing you can point to is that while Argentina in 2014 came very close, they actually won it in 1986. But let's be frank, given they only got through by cheating, the win is asterisked by me.
The fact you ignore all the statistics and data, just on the basis of a small margin of a 117th minute goal loss vs an asterisked win, is ridiculous.
What asterisk lol? Messi is the biggest cheat i have seen. He dived all the time. In argentina it is called cunning lol.
The Argentina teams since 2010 have always had the best individuals. Yet they fail everytime with Messi anonymous. How can you argue with reality lol. Argentinians are the best judges. Messi is no hero. Del potro us more popular. Maradona is God.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
I'm sorry, but this is just more evidence you don't know much about football.
Messi is the RECORD goal scorer in El Clasico. He has a better goal/game ratio than CR7 in El Clasico.
Scoring when losing is irrelevant lol. Ronaldo won more and contributed more to an inferior Madrid team. Madrid owned Barcelona with Ronaldo owning Messi. CL is proof. 3 in a row Ronaldo won. And he literally did it himself as he dragged Madrid to those wins.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Yes but that would still make Michael Jackson 200 times bigger than Maradona, Madonna 150 times than Maradona and Whitney Houston 100 times than Maradona. For the record go check who has more Spotify listeners, or YouTube views or people singing their songs, you'd be surprised that Whitney Houston is ahead of Madonna. They're both legendary but completely different. Whitney has had so many documentaries about her and an upcoming biopic by the makers of Bohemian Rhapsody. She is one of the biggest pop stars ever. She's also the most covered artist on singing talent shows all over the world.

I'd still give the nod to Madonna but that's mainly because she wanted attention and controversy which automatically brings more fame. If Whitney wanted to show her breasts, burn a cross in her videos and do stuff like that, she would have destroyed Madonna's media attention in one day. But she's up there as one of the Top females both in success and fame simply by singing with no gimmicks. She built her legacy on her talent alone, not using sex to sell like 90% of women.

But my main point is that you can't compare music superstars to soccer players. Outside of the World Cup once every 4 years and fans of soccer, nobody cares that much about Maradona. Those legendary music artists are loved EVERY DAY all over the world, played over and over on the radio, watched millions of times every day on YouTube, etc. It's not comparable. Listening to music is part of daily life of almost everyone, watching soccer is not.
Elvis Presley renders all other singers irrelevant. He was GOAT. Maradona GOAT footballer.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
What asterisk lol? Messi is the biggest cheat i have seen. He dived all the time. In argentina it is called cunning lol.
The Argentina teams since 2010 have always had the best individuals. Yet they fail everytime with Messi anonymous. How can you argue with reality lol. Argentinians are the best judges. Messi is no hero. Del potro us more popular. Maradona is God.
Funny, that, because from all accounts Maradona was one of the bigger cheaters on that stage. I don't know much about the sport, but I know that, I guess.
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
Scoring when losing is irrelevant lol. Ronaldo won more and contributed more to an inferior Madrid team. Madrid owned Barcelona with Ronaldo owning Messi.
You said Messi was 'anonymous' in El clasico.

In El clasico, Messi has the record amount of goals. He has higher goal/game ratio than Ronaldo.
Now you're saying scoring when losing is irrelevant. Firstly, it isn't.

But that's also nonsense.
Because Messi has won a higher percentage of El Clasico Games than Ronaldo has. Messi is 17/38, while Ronaldo is 8/30.

So on what basis is Messi anonymous in El Clasico matches?
Do you actually know anything about football in the slightest?
 

Amritia

Hall of Fame
@Beckerserve You said 'any' Barca fan would say Xavi is better than Messi.

This will define whether you are a football expert or don't know anything.
Find examples of players, former players, or coaches, who say that Xavi is better than Messi. Let's see if you can even find one example. Go!
 

Beckerserve

Legend
You said Messi was 'anonymous' in El clasico.

In El clasico, Messi has the record amount of goals. He has higher goal/game ratio than Ronaldo.
Now you're saying scoring when losing is irrelevant. Firstly, it isn't.

But that's also nonsense.
Because Messi has won a higher percentage of El Clasico Games than Ronaldo has. Messi is 17/38, while Ronaldo is 8/30.

So on what basis is Messi anonymous in El Clasico matches?
Do you actually know anything about football in the slightest?
Problem for you is you are in denial. In Spain the narrative is in el classicos ronaldo was always the better player. Messi had 2 memorable ones but mostly he was anonymous. And Madrid won more CLs that era. End of debate right there. CL is what counts.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
@Beckerserve You said 'any' Barca fan would say Xavi is better than Messi.

This will define whether you are a football expert or don't know anything.
Find examples of players, former players, or coaches, who say that Xavi is better than Messi. Let's see if you can even find one example. Go!
Roy Keane. Guardiola. Cruyff. Romario.
 
Top