No tennis player will have the epilogue of the true GOAT of GOATS Diego Maradona

[Sudacafan]

Funny, that, because from all accounts Maradona was one of the bigger cheaters on that stage. I don't know much about the sport, but I know that, I guess.

Cheaters are the ones who injured him repeatedly, in the impotence to stop him, including that Goikoetxea heinous being, who only got a yellow card for a criminal action.

 

[Amritia]

Problem for you is you are in denial. In Spain the narrative is in el classicos ronaldo was always the better player.

What?

I don't care about your 'narrative'.
Messi has scored more goals in El Clasico, more goals per game, and has a higher win percentage in El Clasico than Ronaldo.
So on what basis is Messi 'anonymous' in these games compared to Ronaldo?

 

[Amritia]

Roy Keane. Guardiola. Cruyff. Romario.

Okay, show me the links with evidence of these 4 players saying that Xavi is better than Messi...

 

[NonP]

Was listening to this before hitting the sack earlier, which feels especially apropos in the middle of this dogfight, LOL:

(And it's another fantastic Madonna single, of course. Seriously, if you still don't get what a great dance/singles artist Madge is you're beyond all hope.)

A couple things before I get ready for my bud:

I have no idea how you can possibly think Fedal are more famous than Michael Jackson. I mean it isn't even close. Michael Jackson could go on a stadium tour of less than 70 shows and see more than 4 million people. That's an average of 58,000 people per show and we are talking about every corner of the globe from North America, South America, all over Europe, Russia, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, India, Philippines, Australia and Africa. In my lifetime I have never seen any musician be able to do that. Then you are talking about someone who was worshipped like some god at his peak and was infamous everywhere, whose music reached every corner of the Earth. It's hard to compare athletes to musicians anyway because music is an artform of expression that more people can relate to and tennis, a sport that isn't even the most popular globally, and far down the list in the Americas, cannot compete with that. Michael Jackson was next level of celebrity of fame and hardly anyone ever can compare but two tennis players do?

That was textbook sh!tposting,, and even as a fellow Novak fan I kinda dig his unremitting itch for one-upmanship, but his zinger would've landed better if he did something clever with Maradona vs. Madonna.

maradona in 1986 had valdano who screwed multiple chances. 2014 argentina was stronger than 1986 argentina. yes, maradona cheated, but his performance was still million times better than messis at all world cups combined.

No I am focussing on context to show you that those 5 CL trophies, national titles and goals have taken place under the best possible circumstances because you can build a team of 11 Superstars now and have the protection of the refs as well. The fact is that World Cups are played on the highest physical level and if you fail there regularly then it should be highly doubtful to be called a GOAT.

And how many times are you mentioning that Higuain thing? I have heard this nonsense for years but why didn't Messi score in 120 minutes? Why didn't he do something special? Even if Argentina had won that game Messi was light years behind the performance of Maradona anyway. Have you ever seen how Valdano, Buruchaga and even players like Canniggia missed chances to score when Maradona assisted them? Of course not because all you know is that Maradona used his hand to score, that's all you have lol

Messi did not score one single goal in Knock out stage. The one who carried them before his injury was Di Maria.

Again as a casual fan I don't have much of a dog in this fight, but the above really should've been the clincher a long time ago. The fact of the matter is that Messi underperformed when and where it counted the most, no other way to slice it.

Elvis Presley renders all other singers irrelevant. He was GOAT. Maradona GOAT footballer.

If your knowledge of pop music is about as reliable as your knowledge of tennis, Elvis needs a better champion.

 

[Beckerserve]

What?

I don't care about your 'narrative'.
Messi has scored more goals in El Clasico, more goals per game, and has a higher win percentage in El Clasico than Ronaldo.
So on what basis is Messi 'anonymous' in these games compared to Ronaldo?

He has less winning contributions in games that mattered between them i.e title deciders.

 

[Amritia]

He has less winning contributions in games that mattered between them i.e title deciders.

That's not true, Messi won more La Ligas than Ronaldo when they were both playing La Liga. And in the only el clasico between them in the CL, Messi scored while Ronaldo didn't.

 

[alexio]

Nice to hear that someone remembers Mane Garrincha. Very underrated player in GOAT debates.

of course we remember him, together with tostao, zico and many other greats from brazil, borg

 

[Beckerserve]

Okay, show me the links with evidence of these 4 players saying that Xavi is better than Messi...

how old are you? Do you remember newspapers and the days of TV interviews? Not everything has links but u could google search i guess.

 

[Beckerserve]

Was listening to this before hitting the sack earlier, which feels especially apropos in the middle of this dogfight, LOL:

(And it's another fantastic Madonna single, of course. Seriously, if you still don't get what a great dance/singles artist Madge is you're beyond all hope.)

A couple things before I get ready for my bud:



That was textbook sh!tposting,, and even as a fellow Novak fan I kinda dig his unremitting itch for one-upmanship, but his zinger would've landed better if he did something clever with Maradona vs. Madonna.





Again as a casual fan I don't have much of a dog in this fight, but the above really should've been the clincher a long time ago. The fact of the matter is that Messi underperformed when and where it counted the most, no other way to slice it.



If your knowledge of pop music is about as reliable as your knowledge of tennis, Elvis needs a better champion.

Stop being salty that i am always right. It is tragic to see people get salty when owned on the internet by statistics

 

[Amritia]

how old are you? Do you remember newspapers and the days of TV interviews? Not everything has links but u could google search i guess.

Eh? Why would I want quotes from before the time of the internet? Messi won most of his Balon d'ors in the past decade.
Don't tell me to Google. You've named 4 players who said that Xavi was better than Messi. I want some evidence that any of those 4 have said that. Go.

 

[NonP]

Stop being salty that i am always right. It is tragic to see people get salty when owned on the internet by statistics

Y'all might dig this gem:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/wimbledon-85-mcenroe-connors-chance-against-boris.682418/#post-147592020

@encylopedia posts a video clip that directly contradicts our beloved Becker/Nadal cheerleader's claim, from the horse's mouth to boot, but he refuses to budge an inch.

And this:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/your-top-10-atp-servers-of-all-time.682997/page-2#post-14776578

I throw him a bunch of cold hard stats and he just dismisses them without the slightest acknowledgement. And Boris is one of my all-time faves for gawd's sake!

A complete waste of time trying to hold a meaningful discussion with anyone who flat-out denies reality when it doesn't jibe with his narrative. That's why I didn't bother responding to that umpteenth denial of his (well that and life beckoned).

 

[Beckerserve]

Eh? Why would I want quotes from before the time of the internet? Messi won most of his Balon d'ors in the past decade.
Don't tell me to Google. You've named 4 players who said that Xavi was better than Messi. I want some evidence that any of those 4 have said that. Go.

I gave you evidence. I assume you know how to use google. You have a little research to do. Just type in to google and see what comes up. I can keep you in the game but i am not throwing it for you as well lol.

 

[Amritia]

I gave you evidence. I assume you know how to use google. You have a little research to do. Just type in to google and see what comes up. I can keep you in the game but i am not throwing it for you as well lol.

I googled it and found no reports of any of those 4 saying Xavi is better than Messi. Were you making it up?

 

[alexio]

I googled it and found no reports of any of those 4 saying Xavi is better than Messi. Were you making it up?

 

[Third Serve]

lmao I was just going to link that thread

 

[Beckerserve]

I googled it and found no reports of any of those 4 saying Xavi is better than Messi. Were you making it up?

What did you google? I dont believe you looked hard enough. Google searches usually produce pages of hits. Takes longer than 2 mins bud. Problem with millennials is the short attention span and lack of research skills. Do not join them. Stand out from the pack.

 

[Beckerserve]

I googled it and found no reports of any of those 4 saying Xavi is better than Messi. Were you making it up?

Bottom line is outside asia the major footballing nations public have Ronaldo ahead of Messi. India and china worship Messi but i think there are non football reasons behind that tbh.

 

[Beckerserve]

I googled it and found no reports of any of those 4 saying Xavi is better than Messi. Were you making it up?

NFL time now. Chat soon bud. Always fun.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

of course we remember him, together with tostao, zico and many other greats from brazil, borg

Two WC wins one with absolute great performance and another one winning it basically on his own after Pelé got injured. National squad only lost one game with him (his last against Hungary in WC 66). Nevertheless he is rarely if ever mentioned as a top ten player all time while a guy like Stan Matthews who never won a league title, never did anything at a WC, never did anything in European Club tournaments, whose biggest success was a FA Cup with Blackpool and who - as a winger - did not score a single goal for several whole seasons is regularly voted within the top 5 all time.

 

[Amritia]

What did you google? I dont believe you looked hard enough. Google searches usually produce pages of hits. Takes longer than 2 mins bud. Problem with millennials is the short attention span and lack of research skills. Do not join them. Stand out from the pack.

I've googled and searched pages and pages and found ZERO reports suggesting that either of those 4 said Xavi was better than Messi.
I have a suspicion you made it up I'm afraid.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Messi is slightly better in domestic competitions, but CR completely outperforms him on the international stage, so that comparison is a no brainer.

 

[Phoenix1983]

My top 10 footballers of all time would be something like this:

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Di Stefano
4. Messi
5. Cruyff
6. Beckenbauer
7. Zidane
8. Puskas
9. Best
10. C Ronaldo

Messi can't be placed ahead of Maradona or Pele without a World Cup win. Di Stefano still narrowly tops him as the greatest club football achiever of all time, IMHO.

Football GOAT remains a contest between Maradona and Pele.

 

[Sudacafan]

Problem for you is you are in denial. In Spain the narrative is in el classicos ronaldo was always the better player. Messi had 2 memorable ones but mostly he was anonymous. And Madrid won more CLs that era. End of debate right there. CL is what counts.

Messi tends to freeze when it’s life or death.
Maradona cherished those scenarios.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

My top 10 footballers of all time would be something like this:

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Di Stefano
4. Messi
5. Cruyff
6. Beckenbauer
7. Zidane
8. Puskas
9. Best
10. C Ronaldo

Messi can't be placed ahead of Maradona or Pele without a World Cup win. Di Stefano still narrowly tops him as the greatest club football achiever of all time, IMHO.

Football GOAT remains a contest between Maradona and Pele.

List looks reasonable but I feel Garrincha and Ronaldo Nazario are missing here. As both are two time WC winner and WC legends I have a hard time placing people like George Best ahead of them.

 

[Thetouch]

Do you actually watch Barcelona play? It's just not the case that Messi is reliant on others supplying him. He gets the ball, does intricate dribbling to get past many defenders, and scores.

Exactly what I said he gets past defenders because they are not allowed to tackle him hard enough. Btw Iniesta and Xavi are world champions, just like a couple of other Barcelona players, so Messi is obviously dependent on them in Barcelona.

As for his performances for Argentina, he's actually got more goals for country than Maradona, and has a better goal/game ratio. The only thing you can point to is that while Argentina in 2014 came very close, they actually won it in 1986. But let's be frank, given they only got through by cheating, the win is asterisked by me.
The fact you ignore all the statistics and data, just on the basis of a small margin of a 117th minute goal loss vs an asterisked win, is ridiculous.

It's like arguing with a 12 year old kid. lol We went through this nonsense already. Messi scores 10 goals against the likes of Honduras, I got that unfortunately he can't score against Germany or England or Italy.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Deleted.

 

[Phoenix1983]

List looks reasonable but I feel Garrincha and Ronaldo Nazario are missing here. As both are two time WC winner and WC legends I have a hard time placing people like George Best ahead of them.

Agreed that Garrincha and the Brazilian Ronaldo could be in the all time top 10.

Disagree that Best can't be considered - coming from a country like Northern Ireland, he was never going to be able to be a WC legend.

 

[Midaso240]

I don't know if I agree he is the GOAT of GOATs (Jordan, Ali, Phelps, Bolt) but yes, I agree no tennis player will ever receive this level of adulation because while Rafa, Novak and Roger are rock stars in their respective countries it's nothing like what Maradona is in Argentina. The closest I can think of is Tendulkar in India...

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Agreed that Garrincha and the Brazilian Ronaldo could be in the all time top 10.

Disagree that Best can't be considered - coming from a country like Northern Ireland, he was never going to be able to be a WC legend.

Of course he is one of the greatest and it is not his fault that he was born in the wrong country. I simply cannot see placing him ahead of Garrincha and Ronaldo. Also I disagree about Di Stefano 5 places ahead of Puskas. Ferenc was every bit his equal on club level play but other than Alfredo also excelled at the international stage. Anyways, all those players are legends and how to rank them also comes down to personal preference .

 

[alexio]

My top 10 footballers of all time would be something like this:

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Di Stefano
4. Messi
5. Cruyff
6. Beckenbauer
7. Zidane
8. Puskas
9. Best
10. C Ronaldo

Messi can't be placed ahead of Maradona or Pele without a World Cup win. Di Stefano still narrowly tops him as the greatest club football achiever of all time, IMHO.

Football GOAT remains a contest between Maradona and Pele.

great, my list is:
1. maradona
2. messi
3. pele
4. di stefano
5. zidane
6. cruyff
7. ronaldo(9)
8. ronaldo (7)
9. garrincha
10. ?
(top 3 in a particular order, from 4-10- in no..)

 

[Phoenix1983]

great, my list is:
1. maradona
2. messi
3. pele
4. di stefano
5. zidane
6. cruyff
7. ronaldo(9)
8. ronaldo (7)
9. garrincha
10. ?
(top 3 in a particular order, from 4-10- in no..)

Reasonable list. As mentioned I wouldn't put Messi higher than No 3 personally - although I know many have him at No 1.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

great, my list is:
1. maradona
2. messi
3. pele
4. di stefano
5. zidane
6. cruyff
7. ronaldo(9)
8. ronaldo (7)
9. garrincha
10. ?
(top 3 in a particular order, from 4-10- in no..)

Messi ahead of Pelé I find difficult given that it is 3 WC wins to 0. Pelé also performed in all of them and his FC Santos dominated in a similar way as Messi’s Barca.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

great, my list is:
1. maradona
2. messi
3. pele
4. di stefano
5. zidane
6. cruyff
7. ronaldo(9)
8. ronaldo (7)
9. garrincha
10. ?
(top 3 in a particular order, from 4-10- in no..)

Surely, Platini would have a place on anyone's top 10 list?

 

[alexio]

Surely, Platini would have a place on anyone's top 10 list?

on your listyea platini is great too, one of strong contenders to be in the top 10, alongside with others, just not so sure about who exactly

 

[Bartelby]

Supported authoritarian regimes? You're too funny!

Maradona has been also a convicted tax fraud (like the Nadal family, btw, who settled with the Spanish authorities), has a child outside of his relationship, there are alleged links to the Italian Mafia, and has supported authoritarian regimes to boot. THAT is another level.

 

[Bartelby]

You mean the guy banned from football for eight years? You're too funny!

Surely, Platini would have a place on anyone's top 10 list?

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Supported authoritarian regimes? You're too funny!

With some people you have to read between the lines to know they mean the opposite

 

[alexio]

Messi ahead of Pelé I find difficult given that it is 3 WC wins to 0. Pelé also performed in all of them and his FC Santos dominated in a similar way as Messi’s Barca.

then maradona shouldn't be also in 1st place coz pele has three times more titles (i wasn't thinking about wc titles as a decisive factor)

 

[Sudacafan]

Stats have more meaning in individual sports.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

You mean the guy banned from football for eight years? You're too funny!

I didn't know that when you are doing the list of the greatest football players for their football skills, ethical issues come in question. If that were so, Maradona wouldn't be on that list either.

Then again, it is no surprise that you are running wild yet again. Already established what makes you tick.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Surely, Platini would have a place on anyone's top 10 list?

Nah, top 20 probably. Zidane is the GOAT French footballer methinks.

 

[Bartelby]

I didn't know you were a political scientist and ethicist? And yet you offered your views on such, which you now pretend neither to see nor acknowledge.

I quote your own words:

Maradona has been also a convicted tax fraud (like the Nadal family, btw, who settled with the Spanish authorities), has a child outside of his relationship, there are alleged links to the Italian Mafia, and has supported authoritarian regimes to boot. THAT is another level.

As for me, I run wild and I run free. You should try it sometime. Your constipated personality can't pass a Novak!

I didn't know that when you are doing the list of the greatest football players for their football skills, ethical issues come in question. If that were so, Maradona wouldn't be on that list either.

Then again, it is no surprise that you are running wild yet again. Already established what makes you tick.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Nah, top 20 probably. Zidane is the GOAT French footballer methinks.

Zidane is better, but there is no limitation as to how many players from one nation should be there. Platini is on the same level as Cruyff, IMO.

 

[Nole_King]

Outside of Argentina and Italy there wasn't so much fuss. Don't exaggerate. Also in soccer there are many legends like Messi, Pele, both Ronaldos, etc. Maradona wasn't above them. Also soccer is much more popular than tennis so it's unfair to compare, of course it would make a bigger impact, not to mention how soccer fans are known to be very passionate (sometimes in the wrong way). But I'm sure in Switzerland and Spain there would be a lot of reaction for Fedal.

But as popular as soccer players are, when Michael Jackson 2009 and Whitney Houston 2012 died, they were both the most googled words for those respective years (not only for people but for any words or themes searched on Google). I doubt Maradona would get close so it's hard to compare different sports or different entertainment fields.

Sorry to say but you probably know nothing outside of your home. Maradona is a legend wherever I have traveled. And trust me thats multiple continents. There are places outside of Argentina and Italy where they know more about Maradona than soccer itself.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I didn't know you were a political scientist and ethicist? And yet you offered your views on such, which you now pretend neither to see nor acknowledge.

As for me, I run wild and I run free. You should try it sometime. Your constipated personality can't pass a Novak!

The making of a top 10 football players list doesn't preclude from having all sorts of other views, so I don't see a problem with that, let alone to have to "pretend" about anything. You are locked in your jail that you yourself constructed, and are discussing behind the bars.

Oh, so ironic that you talk about being free with those two metal balls attached to each of your feet!



EDIT: My words don't preclude him from being listed for his football skills. You are confused as to what is being discussed.

 

[Nole_King]

Were you not watching the news? Maradona was pretty much main news everywhere for 2 days.
Only players close to Maradona would be Pele and Cristiano Ronaldo but Maradona clearly ahead of both those legends.
Brazil ronaldo a category down. Messi and ronaldinho hugely overrated. Messi was propped up by xavi and iniesta. Fact he had no international title with Argentina speaks volumes. Maradona dragged an average team to a world cup. Messi failed in an Argentine side packed with superstars for a decade.!

Disagree ... Football is a team game and Messi is a magician.

 

[Amritia]

Messi GOAT by miles, not even close.
Casual fans who only watch World Cup may disagree.

 

[Bartelby]

So you criticised me for something you acknowledge now that you did; namely, introduce extraneous material to a football discussion.

Thank you!

The making of a top 10 football players list doesn't preclude from having all sorts of other views, so I don't see a problem with that, let alone to have to "pretend" about anything.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

then maradona shouldn't be also in 1st place coz pele has three times more titles (i wasn't thinking about wc titles as a decisive factor)

Sure it should not be the decisive factor but Peles achievements/performances at WC level completely dwarf Messi’s - cannot say the same about Maradona. Pelé also had great results on club level with 10 Paulistas, 5 Taca Brasils, 2 Libertadores and 2 Intercontinentals. I would therefore put Pelé ahead of Diego at No.1.

 

[Beckerserve]

Disagree ... Football is a team game and Messi is a magician.

Soccer is the correct term.