Nole has aged better than Fedal. Will that continue?

[GabeT]

Age has finally caught up with Nole and his time of utter dominance is over (been over for a few months, actually). But Nole turns 30 this year, which Nadal did in 2016 and Federer in 2011. So far Nole has been aging better than either of the two. Nole's 2015/16 is much better than Nadal's 2014/15 or Federer's 2009/10, years when the players turned 28 and 29. Will that continue?

Nole has played only two tournaments this year and his results (W, 2R) are bettter than Nadal's last year at the same point in time, but worse than Federer's in 2011 (Fed won Doha in 2011, like Nole this year, but reached SF's in the 2011 AO).

Nadal has collapsed so much that it's very likely that "30 year old and above " Nole will do better than similarly aged Nadal. But Federer? After turning 30 Fed won just one more Slam, one WTF, and seven masters. Can Nole beat that?

 

[MasterZeb]

No.

 

[Tennisanity]

Nole was a late bloomer relatively (24 in 2011?), had lot more gas in the tank at age 29 and 30. 2008 was a fluke win.

 

[uliks]

yes he will!

 

[jm1980]

I hope he can win at least one more Slam before he hangs up the racquet. Two to tie Petros would be great

It's not looking very good. Yesterday's match and many of the matches in the later half of 2016 are matches you would have expected the Djokovic of old to eventually pull through.

Losing to guys he'd beaten every time, and having bad days more often are signs of decline. Let's see how the rest of 2017 shapes up but it's pretty bleak at this point

 

[MasturB]

If he continues to improve his serve he'll have a chance like Fed. If he keeps grinding no chance. H has to be more efficient like Fed.

 

[Noelan]

Age has finally caught up with Nole and his time of utter dominance is over (been over for a few months, actually). But Nole turns 30 this year, which Nadal did in 2016 and Federer in 2011. So far Nole has been aging better than either of the two. Nole's 2015/16 is much better than Nadal's 2014/15 or Federer's 2009/10, years when the players turned 28 and 29. Will that continue?

Nole has played only two tournaments this year and his results (W, 2R) are bettter than Nadal's last year at the same point in time, but worse than Federer's in 2011 (Fed won Doha in 2011, like Nole this year, but reached SF's in the 2011 AO).

Nadal has collapsed so much that it's very likely that "30 year old and above " Nole will do better than similarly aged Nadal. But Federer? After turning 30 Fed won just one more Slam, one WTF, and seven masters. Can Nole beat that?

You forgot meldonium effect on serve He did not aged better than fedal . None in the universe is aged better than Federer and none is more beautiful than bald Nadal

 

[Red Rick]

Djokovic peaked later than Fed and timed his peak better than Rafa. His game is the kind that ages pretty badly, as it many matches to come won't be on his own racket.

 

[jm1980]

If he continues to improve his serve he'll have a chance like Fed. If he keeps grinding no chance. H has to be more efficient like Fed.

He seems to be content to grind with these guys from the back of the court, a strategy that's worked for him for years

This is evidently changing and we'll have to see how he adapts. Bringing back the more aggressive, pre-2008 Djokovic and improving his serve will be crucial going forward

 

[MasturB]

He seems to be content to grind with these guys from the back of the court, a strategy that's worked for him for years

This is evidently changing and we'll have to see how he adapts. Bringing back the more aggressive, pre-2008 Djokovic and improving his serve will be crucial going forward

His first serve has improved even since 2011. He may be content to grind like Rafa was but he needs cheap points.

 

[tennis_pro]

I'm not sure Djokovic aged that much better than Federer. The competition in 2009 to mid 2010 was on a different level than in 2015-2016 so obviously Fed won less.

 

[Matthew Lee]

He needs to amp up the power.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

Its difficult to tell because I dont think his body has broken down the way particularly Nadal's did.

 

[mike danny]

If Djokovic returns to a decent level, he should win more than Fed once he turns 30. Fed had peak Nadal and Djokovic to contend with in his 30's, that's why he did not win so much.

So far, Djokovic doesn't seem to have anybody on his level who is also younger. So even if he'll never be as good as 2011 or 2015, he will still have chances because theoretically he will have no equal.

 

[dh003i]

The competition in 2009 was very strong. You had Nadal winning the AO, Federer the FO and W in matches against strong opponents, and then Delpo played a phenomenal ATG-level USO SF and F.

 

[mike danny]

The competition in 2009 was very strong. You had Nadal winning the AO, Federer the FO and W in matches against strong opponents, and then Delpo played a phenomenal ATG-level USO SF and F.

And Davydenko catching fire in the fall season.

 

[mike danny]

The competition in 2009 was very strong. You had Nadal winning the AO, Federer the FO and W in matches against strong opponents, and then Delpo played a phenomenal ATG-level USO SF and F.

Also the oldest top 10 players in 2009 were Federer and Davydenko, both aged 28. There was nobody older than 28 in the top 10 back then. How times have changed.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Djokovic's fall literally began one major later than Federer's, adjusted for age (AO '10 - RG '16), so he barely aged better.

 

[mike danny]

Djokovic's fall literally began one major later than Federer's, adjusted for age (AO '10 - RG '16), so he barely aged better.

Well to be fair Nole was more dominant at 28 than Fed at 28.

Of course, it also must be added that Fed was playing with more pressure at 28 than Djokovic at 28. Would Djokovic have been the dominant monster that he was if he had had the slam record in sight?

 

[TahoeTennis]

Eclipse....

No one member of the big 4 can eclipse the other. They are the 4, keepers of the 4 kingdoms. Winter is coming.

 

[tennis_pro]

And Davydenko catching fire in the fall season.

Djokovic and Murray were strong additions too and then there are Roddick/Tsonga/Soderling causing upsets in big matches. Verdasco and his brilliant AO and consistent top 10 level season. What a great year that was. I wish I could witness something similar again in my lifetime. Some of the tournaments like 2009 Canada or 2009 WTF were just fantastic. Only 2012 came close since.

 

[Druss]

yes he will!

Well, what can I say, except "good luck to your boy"

 

[Druss]

Well to be fair Nole was more dominant at 28 than Fed at 28.

Of course, it also must be added that Fed was playing with more pressure at 28 than Djokovic at 28. Would Djokovic have been the dominant monster that he was if he had had the slam record in sight?

Federer was 28 in 2009....that was one of the toughest seasons since the 80s. Compare 2009 with 2015 competition wise?

 

[csmoove899]

Nadal hasn't accomplished anything since 2016 so it will be hard not to eclipse that

 

[NGM]

He will win 3 slams this year, 4 next year and so on. The sky is limit to him.

 

[scotus]

The man needs to eat some meat.

 

[Gazelle]

The man needs to eat some meat.

"Where's my beef! grrrr..." he shouted against poor ballboy.

 

[tennisaddict]

Ridiculous comparison by OP.

The answer depends if Djokovic has an opponent from now like how he was to Fed from 2010-2016, leave aside Nadal.

Fed won 1 slam past 30, but let us not forget he was stopped by Djokovic 2 times at AO, 1 time at FO, 2 times at Wimbledon, 3 times at USO.
Fed was 4-1 against Novak before 2010.

Old Fed had Djok and Nadal while Old Djok will have Raonic and Nishikori..

 

[GabeT]

I'm not sure Djokovic aged that much better than Federer. The competition in 2009 to mid 2010 was on a different level than in 2015-2016 so obviously Fed won less.

This is the very strong competition Federer was losing to in 2010:

Gulbis
Baghdatis
Hewitt (ranked 32 at the time)
Monfils

No, the idea that Federer was only losing to Nadal or Nole in 2010 is a myth.

 

[tennisaddict]

This is the very strong competition Federer was losing to in 2010:

Gulbis
Baghdatis
Hewitt (ranked 32 at the time)
Monfils

No, the idea that Federer was only losing to Nadal or Nole in 2010 is a myth.

They did not happen at majors.

First loss of major relevance was in 2013 to Stak.

Novak's loss is when he was 29 to Sam Querrey and Istomin. Big Big Difference

 

[tennis_pro]

This is the very strong competition Federer was losing to in 2010:

Gulbis
Baghdatis
Hewitt (ranked 32 at the time)
Monfils

No, the idea that Federer was only losing to Nadal or Nole in 2010 is a myth.

2009 Doha - Murray
2009 AO - Nadal
2009 IW - Murray
2009 Miami - Djokovic
2009 MC - Wawrinka
2009 Rome - Djokovic
2009 Canada - Tsonga
2009 US Open - Del Potro
2009 Basel - Djokovic
2009 Paris - Benneteau
2009 WTF - Del Potro and Davydenko
2010 Doha - Davydenko

He only started having random losses after the 2010 Australian Open. You're holding onto that 2010 season like your life depended on it when you can't deny the fact that 2009 has been one of the most competitive years ever and challenges the real golden era of the late 80's/early 90's.

 

[GabeT]

2009 Doha - Murray
2009 AO - Nadal
2009 IW - Murray
2009 Miami - Djokovic
2009 MC - Wawrinka
2009 Rome - Djokovic
2009 Canada - Tsonga
2009 US Open - Del Potro
2009 Basel - Djokovic
2009 Paris - Benneteau
2009 WTF - Del Potro and Davydenko
2010 Doha - Davydenko

He only started having random losses after the 2010 Australian Open. You're holding onto that 2010 season like your life depended on it when you can't deny the fact that 2009 has been one of the most competitive years ever and challenges the real golden era of the late 80's/early 90's.

Wait, you are really trying to compare 2009 fed with 2015 Nole???

 

[tennis_pro]

Wait, you are really trying to compare 2009 fed with 2015 Nole???

No, I'm saying is that results don't determine who aged better. If 2015 Djokovic had Federer's 2009 opposition (or the other way round) you think their results would've been the same?

 

[GabeT]

No, I'm saying is that results don't determine who aged better. If 2015 Djokovic had Federer's 2009 opposition (or the other way round) you think their results would've been the same?

I don't know of anyone who doubts that 2015 Nole >>>2009 Fed. No one.

2015 Nole was one of the best tennis performances in the Open Era. 2009 Fed cant even begin to compare.

 

[cc0509]

I don't know of anyone who doubts that 2015 Nole >>>2009 Fed. No one.

2015 Nole was one of the best tennis performances in the Open Era. 2009 Fed cant even begin to compare.

You think Djokovic is going to make slam finals when he is 33 and 34 the way Federer did? Did Federer ever lose in the second round of a slam when he was 29?

 

[GabeT]

You think Djokovic is going to make slam finals when he is 33 and 34 the way Federer did? Did Federer ever lose in the second round of a slam when he was 29?

Will Nole win as much as Fed did after 30? That's the whole question. So far Nole has won much more than Fed did after 28. So we will have to wait and see.

The year he turned 29 (2010) Fed won a single slam and reached no other slam finals. The year Nole reached 29 he won two slams and reached the final of a third. No comparison.

 

[cc0509]

Will Nole win as much as Fed did after 30? That's the whole question. So far Nole has won much more than Fed did after 28. So we will have to wait and see.

The year he turned 29 (2010) Fed won a single slam and reached no other slam finals. The year Nole reached 29 he won two slams and reached the final of a third. No comparison.

Who cares? As I said, will Djokovic be making slam finals when he is 33/34? Federer never lost in the 2R and 3R of slams when he was 28/29 the way Djokovic has this year and last year.

The only question that matters is will Djokovic surpass Federer overall and the answer is NO.

 

[tennisaddict]

Djokovic will age better. His hair looks pretty good whereas Fedal started showing receding hair line at 28

 

[GabeT]

Who cares? As I said, will Djokovic be making slam finals when he is 33/34? Federer never lost in the 2R and 3R of slams when he was 28/29 the way Djokovic has this year and last year.

The only question that matters is will Djokovic surpass Federer overall and the answer is NO.

We shall see. So far Nole has aged better than Federer, reaching and winning more finals at 28 and 29 than Fed did at the same age. Many, many more. The question is if that will continue.

It doesn't require much. Fed managed just one more slam at that age and seven masters. There's a good chance Nole can do more than that in the next few years. We will have to wait and see.

 

[tennisaddict]

We shall see. So far Nole has aged better than Federer, reaching and winning more finals at 28 and 29 than Fed did at the same age. Many, many more. The question is if that will continue.

It doesn't require much. Fed managed just one more slam at that age and seven masters. There's a good chance Nole can do more than that in the next few years. We will have to wait and see.

So the preaching about slam wins are not everything is only when it suits you ?

Fed reached 3 more major finals, won Davis Cup, olympic silver and was stopped by Djoko 8 times and Rafa 3 times during the period after 2010.

Again, what you need to ask yourself is whether Novak is going to have rivals of the calibre of a 24-28 year old Novak and Rafa , starting 2017.

Without context of rivals, this ageing comparison is MUTE

 

[GabeT]

So the preaching about slam wins are not everything is only when it suits you ?

Fed reached 3 more major finals, won Davis Cup, olympic silver and was stopped by Djoko 8 times and Rafa 3 times during the period after 2010.

Again, what you need to ask yourself is whether Novak is going to have rivals of the calibre of a 24-28 year old Novak and Rafa , starting 2017.

Without context of rivals, this ageing comparison is MUTE

Dude, I didn't say that it's a given that Nole will win more after 30 than Fed did at the same age. We have to wait and see. I can only notice that Nole won much, much more at 28 and 29 than Fed did at the same age. So right now the evidence is that Nole has aged better. Will that continue? We shall see.

 

[tennisaddict]

Dude, I didn't say that it's a given that Nole will win more after 30 than Fed did at the same age. We have to wait and see. I can only notice that Nole won much, much more at 28 and 29 than Fed did at the same age. So right now the evidence is that Nole has aged better. Will that continue? We shall see.

What you mentioned in the previous post was Fed did not achieve much other than 1 major and 7 masters which is not too hard for Novak to achieve.

That is a blatantly incorrect summary

 

[GabeT]

What you mentioned in the previous post was Fed did not achieve much other than 1 major and 7 masters which is not too hard for Novak to achieve.

That is a blatantly incorrect summary

But that is what Fed achieved, in terms of tournaments won. If Nole wins, say, 2 slams and 8 masters in the next 6 years, he will have clearly won more than Fed at the same age. If somehow Nole ties Fed on tournaments won post 30 we can look at other achievements, such as finals reached.

In any case it was just a summary. When Nole reaches 35, if he is still playing, we can look at the whole list of accomplishments and compare.

 

[tennisaddict]

But that is what Fed achieved, in terms of tournaments won. If Nole wins, say, 2 slams and 8 masters in the next 6 years, he will have clearly won more than Fed at the same age. If somehow Nole ties Fed on tournaments won post 30 we can look at other achievements, such as finals reached.

It may be better from a statistical count perspective but not in terms of value.

24-28 year Novak/Rafa as opposition is not at all comparable to 26-30 year Raonic/Nishikori/Dmitrov

 

[GabeT]

It may be better from a statistical count perspective but not in terms of value.

24-28 year Novak/Rafa as opposition is not at all comparable to 26-30 year Raonic/Nishikori/Dmitrov

Oh god, are we still going on with the whole "my era had greater competition than your era"?

28/29 year old Nole was a clearly better player with much greater results than 28/29 year old Fed. Will that be true when comparing 30/31/32/33 year old Nole with similarly aged Fed? I dont know.

 

[tennisaddict]

Oh god, are we still going on with the whole "my era had greater competition than your era"?

28/29 year old Nole was a clearly better player with much greater results than 28/29 year old Fed. Will that be true when comparing 30/31/32/33 year old Nole with similarly aged Fed? I dont know.

It is not that complicated question - if a player could choose the opposition he plays against will they like Novak-Rafa OR Raonic-Nishikori.

That is all you need to know.

 

[GabeT]

It is not that complicated question - if a player could choose the opposition he plays against will they like Novak-Rafa OR Raonic-Nishikori.

That is all you need to know.

Dude, Federer wasn't just losing against Nadal and Nole in 2009/2010. And let's not forget that was still pre 2011 Nole, good but no ATG.

 

[tennisaddict]

Dude, Federer wasn't just losing against Nadal and Nole in 2009/2010. And let's not forget that was still pre 2011 Nole, good but no ATG.

How many times do you want me to repeat that Novak /Rafa combo stopped Fed 11 times after 2010 ?

If he had Raonic/Nishikori instead you think he would not have added more majors ?

 

[GabeT]

How many times do you want me to repeat that Novak /Rafa combo stopped Fed 11 times after 2010 ?

If he had Raonic/Nishikori instead you think he would not have added more majors ?

Ah, you are talking of Fed after 30. We'll, let's wait and see who post 30 Nole has to face and what he accomplishes. I was comparing 28/29 Nole with 28/29 Fed.

 

[Jonas78]

Age has finally caught up with Nole and his time of utter dominance is over (been over for a few months, actually). But Nole turns 30 this year, which Nadal did in 2016 and Federer in 2011. So far Nole has been aging better than either of the two. Nole's 2015/16 is much better than Nadal's 2014/15 or Federer's 2009/10, years when the players turned 28 and 29. Will that continue?

Nole has played only two tournaments this year and his results (W, 2R) are bettter than Nadal's last year at the same point in time, but worse than Federer's in 2011 (Fed won Doha in 2011, like Nole this year, but reached SF's in the 2011 AO).

Nadal has collapsed so much that it's very likely that "30 year old and above " Nole will do better than similarly aged Nadal. But Federer? After turning 30 Fed won just one more Slam, one WTF, and seven masters. Can Nole beat that?

If Djokovic comes back like Fedr did 2012, and then in 2014, ill take my hat off. What Agassi and Fedr did at 33-35 is very unusual.

"Better than Fedal" is a strange example, because Nadal has aged terribly, while Fedr has aged very well.