While perhaps 2011 would have been Novak's best chance to beat rafa at RG, looking back in retrospect, it seems like he nonetheless could very well have fallen short. Moreover, had that been the case, his mental dominance and confidence over rafa (acknowledged by Nadal himself) in the Wimby and Open finals may have by that point been greatly diminished and IMO could very well have changed the course of those matches. Not saying that would have necessarily happened but it is food for thought that I haven't seen been mentioned here before.
Nole's 2011 RG Loss: Blessing in Disguise
- Thread starter snapple
- Start date
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
I think we can agree that it was one of the most significant matches of this era.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
A "blessing" because you think it kept Nadal from having 3 Wimbledon and 3 USO titles each? Anything to keep him from having more slams, huh? 
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
In 2011? Yep, you'd better believe we do say.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Look at the bolded again, I agree
and you can say what you want of course, but Nadal has only lost 1 clay BO5 in his life to this day.
Djokovic would have even more platter dishes.
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Haha, we're never gonna agree on this one MN :wink: As I've said before, I don't care how many RG trophies Nadal's won or how many times he's beaten Djokovic there, at the end of the day Novak's level in 2011 >>> any other season of his career and I think he would have likely taken Nadal down in 4 had they met in the final that year. It's just a pity Federer had to play his greatest ever clay court match to deprive us all of it.
to deprive us all of it.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Haha, we're never gonna agree on this one MN :wink: As I've said before, I don't care how many RG trophies Nadal's won or how many times he's beaten Djokovic there, at the end of the day Novak's level in 2011 >>> any other season of his career and I think he would have likely taken Nadal down in 4 had they met in the final that year. It's just a pity Federer had to play his greatest ever clay court match
And I don't care how many times Djokovic beats Nadal outside of RG :lol: if he wasn't beating Fed, he wasn't beating an even better CC player. Bwahaha @ Djokovic winning 3 out of 4 sets against ANY Nadal on Chatrier
derek08844
Rookie
Haha, we're never gonna agree on this one MN :wink: As I've said before, I don't care how many RG trophies Nadal's won or how many times he's beaten Djokovic there, at the end of the day Novak's level in 2011 >>> any other season of his career and I think he would have likely taken Nadal down in 4 had they met in the final that year. It's just a pity Federer had to play his greatest ever clay court match
So Federer's greatest on clay is better then Nadal's greatest on clay? Because if Nadal plays his best (which he normally does on clay) it should be much better then Federer's "best"
derek08844
Rookie
Exactly what I was trying to say
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I'm sure it's very frustrating watching Nadal win RG each year if you don't like him, but it shouldn't cloud reality. Djokovic has had 6 tries. I'm sure he just needed 7.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Never heard of match-ups before? Just because Fed beat Djokovic that year doesn't mean Djokovic wouldn't have beaten Nadal.
And I don't know why MN thinks the idea of Nole beating Nadal on Chatrier is so absurd. Lest we forget he was only six points away from doing so in 2013.
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
There is no harder matchup in tennis for Djokovic than Nadal on Chatrier. The man himself will tell you that. The idea of anyone beating Nadal on Chatrier is absurd, don't make it personal
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
There is no harder matchup in tennis for Djokovic than Nadal on Chatrier. The man himself will tell you that. The idea of anyone beating Nadal on Chatrier is absurd, don't make it personal
Didn't you say a few months ago that you thought Nole would win RG? :???:
And being six points from victory isn't absurd and you know fine well it isn't. Soderling would agree with me on that one.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Novak would come up short just like every other time he's played Nadal at Roland Garros.Look at the bolded again, I agree
Djokovic would have even more platter dishes.
At least Federer beating him showed that Novak isn't greater or better than him on clay, and it also pushes up Nadal's victories over him in the years prior.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I think he's capable, sure. And I think if he wins it it'll be well deserved. Nothing to do with what the KOC has accomplished. Until someone else beats him there, it remains a silly hypothetical.
Pretty much this.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Also, Federer played better on clay in 2006 and 2007. It certainly wasn't his "greatest every clay court match".
What about when he beat Nadal at Hamburg in '07 for example? That isn't considered greater considering Nadal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Djokovic on clay?
What about when he beat Nadal at Hamburg in '07 for example? That isn't considered greater considering Nadal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Djokovic on clay?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
And oh boy have I learnt how you really don't like discussing them, especially where Nadal and RG are concerned. :shock:
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
Hahaha.............you're really trying to rile up Djoko2011 huh ? :twisted:
derek08844
Rookie
I think we should all take some deep breaths and calm down here
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
At least it shows he's taken me off ignore now. :lol:
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Nadal has won RG 9 times, I couldn't be any more relaxed right now
Well, actually in a few hours...... but still
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Nadal has won RG 9 times, I couldn't be any more relaxed right now
Well, actually in a few hours...... but still
Hypotheticals can be brought up no matter how many times a player's won a tournament.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Of course they can. But personally I wouldn't choose an outcome that borders on disrespect of a player's resume.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Had Nishikori defeated Wawrinka, he'd have gone on to beat Djokovic in the semi final. I don't care how good Novak is on Rod Laver Arena or how many times he's won the AO, Novak is a good match up for Kei.
:grin:
:grin:
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Who said anything about disrespect?
Saying Djokovic would have beaten Nadal on Chatrier in 4 sets is at the very least, massively underrating Nadal.
Pretty much this :lol:
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
it was certainly a blessing for the nadal... but i don't think it was really 'disguised'.
oh i'm sorry... you mean for the joker ?
ah maybe... because he would have had the calendar slam, and would have sent the nadal into his mallorcan retirement castle already in 2011... which might have made him lose motivation ? who knows, indeed... but i don't think so.
oh i'm sorry... you mean for the joker ?
ah maybe... because he would have had the calendar slam, and would have sent the nadal into his mallorcan retirement castle already in 2011... which might have made him lose motivation ? who knows, indeed... but i don't think so.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I don't think there's any underrating going on MN. The fact is Djokovic was wiping the floor with Nadal that year, even on clay, so why shouldn't I believe that he'd've gone on to win a hypothetical final? And hey, at least I gave Rafa a set!
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Lol@ Ninja(who's back with a vengeance with an even bigger chip on his shoulder than usual) thinking I'm delusional. It's amazing how quickly certain Nadal fans forget just how good Djokovic was in 2011, you'd think those seven successive defeats their hero had to endure would be etched on their memory forever! :grin:
I don't think there's any underrating going on MN. The fact is Djokovic was wiping the floor with Nadal that year, even on clay, so why shouldn't I believe that he'd've gone on to win a hypothetical final? And hey, at least I gave Rafa a set!
That doesn't mean anything. Djokovic wiped the floor with Rafa in masters in 2013 and 2014, then at RG he still lost.
You can't base everything on masters. Djokovic leads Rafa in masters h2h, but Rafa leads heavily at slams.
So, I don't see the logic of projecting from masters to slams.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I'm not basing everything on the masters, simply Djokovic's overall level of play that year.
SpicyCurry1990
Hall of Fame
Funny, remind me of the time when Kei beat Novak in 4 consecutive Masters finals leading into the AO (including back to back straight set wins on hard court finals)? :lol:
Second off, if Nishikori came into a potential SF with Novak at this year's AO playing at his best possible levels and Novak played with the levels that he showed in that particular SF (vs Wawrinka), I think its very possible Nishikori could have won that match.
If Nadal had played his best in the RG 2011 final, I don't think Novak even with the mental edge would have beaten him. But if he showed the levels he did in that particular F (vs Fed), I think its very possible Djokovic could have won that match.
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Lol, I just assumed MN was joking about Nishikori beating Djokovic had they met at the AO. Can't wait for Novak to beat him in a slam again just to shut up all those who say Kei is this monumentally tough match-up for him. This year's RG would be a good place to start.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Nishikori will become (is) the real deal. He is a player of unique ability.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
He is, but posters like Backspin make out that he's to Djokovic what Nadal is to Federer. I mean seriously? :|
RF20Lennon
Legend
Blessing in disguise? wut.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
And I don't care how many times Djokovic beats Nadal outside of RG :lol: if he wasn't beating Fed, he wasn't beating an even better CC player. Bwahaha @ Djokovic winning 3 out of 4 sets against ANY Nadal on Chatrier
Nadal and Federer are two different match ups though?? so that's a pretty stupid argument. No offence.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
For some reason MN always seems to forget this small aspect of tennis. Even the thought of someone beating Nadal on Chatrier, even just in a hypothetical match, sends shivers down his spine. Very strange.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Tennis is all about match ups and styles. It isn't a small aspect of the game.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I was being sarcastic.
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
There is no room for sarcasm in this TW, ok. Now stop it .........:twisted:
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic beat nadal two times in slams that year.
I think exactly opposite. Nadal updated his game during 2012-13 break which is now more oriented towards DTL shot making from both wings as opposed to old CC grinding. Djokovic absolutely had no problems handling and punishing heavy CC shots from backhand wing from the start. In 2011, he built enough stamina, updated his game to slight defensive and developed champion's mentality which proved enough for Old grinder version of Nadal. IMO if would've won RG if in form Federer wasn't there stopping him.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
That's exactly my point. It's easier for Djokovic to beat Federer on clay than Nadal, silly. Or anyone for that matter.
Yet Djokovic has never beaten Nadal at RG to this day.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
:lol: Dude, this is tennis. Only one thing does that and it has **** to do with Nadal
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