non appealable" code violation (can I take this to the ITF)

Was it a fair code violation

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 66.7%
  • No

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • Total voters
    6

HOT SHOT

Rookie
Hi folks I have got a code violation (my first) from Tennis Australia for a time violation. Under my email it said I had 364 days to appeal it. Recently I have been told by one of these head officials it is "unappealable". I am fighting it because according to the smarty pants official at the tournament I took 26 seconds between a point in what was a 3.5h match I was told I could only take 20 seconds and because it was a platinum they hold the players to a professional standard. I made the point to the official that it took me at least ten seconds to walk to the net and back to collect one of the balls and that it can't be the exact same rules as the pro circuit in regards to the 20 seconds between points, because it is self umpired (1 official between 3 courts) and we are without ball kids. I am adamant I will find a way to win this I've never broke racquets and never ever got a code before and the last thing I want is something as ridiculous as this to tarnish my reputation especially as a coach. Can I launch a complaint or Investigation with the ITF.

#Irefusetobackdown

Thanks in Advance
 

Max G.

Legend
It seems supremely unlikely that contesting it will bring you anything useful.

1) When you appeal, you will have no evidence that the code violation was wrong. Umpire says you took more than 20 seconds, you say you didn't (or if you did, that it shouldn't matter...) what reason would anyone have to believe your word over the umpire's? None.

2) ...seriously, why do you care? Pros get time violations all the time. It's not like it goes on your permanent record.

3) ...unless there was something else besides the time violation. Did you break racquets or swear at the umpire or something?
 

HOT SHOT

Rookie
Hi Max, thanks for your input the issue is it will go on my record for a year its valued at two points if i have to withdraw due to an injury or family emergency etc I will receive a one point violation meaning I get to three which then warrants a 6 month suspension (I would rather not take that risk) I’m not fighting the 20 seconds I’m fighting the fact that I’ve been held to the “professional” 20 second standard when I don’t have access to ball kids like the pro’s particularly when I had to walk to the net to pick up a ball and back which would generally take maybe 10-15 seconds.
 

spun_out

Semi-Pro
are you sure you are telling the whole story? are you sure that the code violation you got was for a time violation and not a code violation for arguing with an official over a time violation? to me, it is utterly ridiculous that a time violation is 2 points and a no-show is 1 point and at 3 points you are suspended for 6 months.

sorry to be incredulous, but something doesn't add up.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
Did you know, were you aware ahead of time... before the start of the match, that you would be on a 20 second time restriction between points?

Were you aware before the match started that you would be on a 20 second time restriction between points, AND that you would have to retrieve your own balls?

If you answer "yes" to both of these questions, then I'm not sure what you are appealing.

You knew of the time restriction, and you knew you didn't have "ball boys/girls". Quibbling about a roving ref or professional standards is moot. You knew you had 20 seconds and apparently AT LEAST ONCE you violated the 20 second time restriction.

It sucks, but next time you will have to be more prompt in clearing your court of the balls.

Now to your question of CAN you file a complaint? Sure. Of course you can.

Should you file a complaint? If you feel aggrieved, go ahead.

Do I think you should win the appeal? Not if you were aware of the conditions/restrictions before the start of the match. Sorry mate. That's my ruling, and it is final.
 

EP1998

Semi-Pro
Unfortunate but as I understand it the ITF rule is 20 seconds. You could appeal and say it took longer to housekeep balls than expected and that you werent trying to take extra time but who knows what they will do. Officials tend to back their own so I wouldn't say anything about the official. I dont think appealing to ITF would do anything unless its an ITF sanctioned tournament.
 
Life is not fair, move on, there are more important things to use your energy on--like the invasion of pickle-ball.
 

Dartagnan64

Legend
In my tennis world, roving officials don't make calls like this unless a) they were advised by the opponent to look for it or b) there was a pattern emerging of violations leading to extensive scrutiny.

I doubt very much the official decided to randomly check the time between points and give a code violation after then first offense. Likely there were numerous delays already alerting them to the issue until they finally timed it.

But its hard to say since we only have heard one side of the story and that's likely how the ITF would deal with the appeal. Without the other side of the story there is little they can do and probably that official doesn't even remember you anymore.

And I can't imagine a time violation besmirching anyone's reputation. Becoming petty about would likely do more damage to the rep than anything.
 

5sets

Semi-Pro
Hi folks I have got a code violation (my first) from Tennis Australia for a time violation. Under my email it said I had 364 days to appeal it. Recently I have been told by one of these head officials it is "unappealable". I am fighting it because according to the smarty pants official at the tournament I took 26 seconds between a point in what was a 3.5h match I was told I could only take 20 seconds and because it was a platinum they hold the players to a professional standard. I made the point to the official that it took me at least ten seconds to walk to the net and back to collect one of the balls and that it can't be the exact same rules as the pro circuit in regards to the 20 seconds between points, because it is self umpired (1 official between 3 courts) and we are without ball kids. I am adamant I will find a way to win this I've never broke racquets and never ever got a code before and the last thing I want is something as ridiculous as this to tarnish my reputation especially as a coach. Can I launch a complaint or Investigation with the ITF.

#Irefusetobackdown

Thanks in Advance
I thought Tapatalk was for hackers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

HOT SHOT

Rookie
are you sure you are telling the whole story? are you sure that the code violation you got was for a time violation and not a code violation for arguing with an official over a time violation? to me, it is utterly ridiculous that a time violation is 2 points and a no-show is 1 point and at 3 points you are suspended for 6 months.

sorry to be incredulous, but something doesn't add up.
No shows are 2 points I’m referring to late withdrawal which is 1
 

HOT SHOT

Rookie
are you sure you are telling the whole story? are you sure that the code violation you got was for a time violation and not a code violation for arguing with an official over a time violation? to me, it is utterly ridiculous that a time violation is 2 points and a no-show is 1 point and at 3 points you are suspended for 6 months.

sorry to be incredulous, but something doesn't add up.
It was not really an argument I just said to him that we can’t be held to the same professional standard for this particular rule because it took me atleast 10 sec to walk to the net and back to get the ball (only the one comment).
 

Cashman

Professional
Speaking as an Australian tennis player, you do not get given 2 disciplinary points for a time violation.

It sounds to me like you either committed a large number of time violations, or was given one and then got into a blue with the referee.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
It was not really an argument I just said to him that we can’t be held to the same professional standard for this particular rule because it took me atleast 10 sec to walk to the net and back to get the ball (only the one comment).

Again, doesn't this go back to the point that you knew the time restrictions when you entered the tournament? You knew beforehand that you had 20 seconds. What does it matter what the pros do when by entering you agreed to the 20 second rule? Don't like it? Don't enter. Not trying to be harsh, but if you don't like the way the food is prepared in a given restaurant, then don't go in that restaurant.

You can argue that limits the tournaments you would like to play in... agree. It would. So then it is on you to move faster between points. Doesn't matter if it is the first point of the match, or a point 3 hours into the match... there is a 20 second rule. Abide by it or pay the penalty. Like everyone else.
 

stapletonj

Professional
Officials tend to back their own so I wouldn't say anything about the official.

AS a lawyer who has done appeals before MANY times. This is the truest statement on the thread. Both the officials are "inside the castle walls". You are not.

I think your best appellate arguments are that, yes, the 20 second rule applies, but was there a visible clock? Was the official using a stopwatch? Or did he just "decide" it was over 20 seconds?

Best of all, when does the 20 seconds start? This one might actually get some traction. How many balls were you playing with? If it were the professional number (nine?) and the errant ball was in some obscure corner,
then I think the official is right. However, if you were only playing with 3 and the errant ball was on the court or within a normal play area where there is a reasonable chance it could come underfoot, then I think you might have a shot.

The player safety argument, under those circumstances just might carry the day. Tangentially mentioning the avoidance of liability issues (a la the verdicts against Pizza Hut for their delivery drivers reckless driving trying to get the pizza there in 30 mins. and killing people along the way) might also help them see things your way.

Just speculating tho'.
 

stapletonj

Professional
PS - I know nothing about Australian law. However, in the USA, pre printed waivers of liability are usually worthless (under public policy exceptions to freedom of contract), if the defendant was negligent.
 

IA-SteveB

Hall of Fame
I would actually PM the user TTMR on here for help. He has a lawyer who helps him with these types of issues. I think his name is Jackie Chiles.
 

HOT SHOT

Rookie
Did you know, were you aware ahead of time... before the start of the match, that you would be on a 20 second time restriction between points?

Were you aware before the match started that you would be on a 20 second time restriction between points, AND that you would have to retrieve your own balls?

If you answer "yes" to both of these questions, then I'm not sure what you are appealing.

You knew of the time restriction, and you knew you didn't have "ball boys/girls". Quibbling about a roving ref or professional standards is moot. You knew you had 20 seconds and apparently AT LEAST ONCE you violated the 20 second time restriction.

It sucks, but next time you will have to be more prompt in clearing your court of the balls.

Now to your question of CAN you file a complaint? Sure. Of course you can.

Should you file a complaint? If you feel aggrieved, go ahead.

Do I think you should win the appeal? Not if you were aware of the conditions/restrictions before the start of the match. Sorry mate. That's my ruling, and it is final.
Nothing just that it was a best of three set match if there was any conflict call an official and that abrasive language or racquet abuse would not be tolerated.
 

HOT SHOT

Rookie
In my tennis world, roving officials don't make calls like this unless a) they were advised by the opponent to look for it or b) there was a pattern emerging of violations leading to extensive scrutiny.

I doubt very much the official decided to randomly check the time between points and give a code violation after then first offense. Likely there were numerous delays already alerting them to the issue until they finally timed it.

But its hard to say since we only have heard one side of the story and that's likely how the ITF would deal with the appeal. Without the other side of the story there is little they can do and probably that official doesn't even remember you anymore.

And I can't imagine a time violation besmirching anyone's reputation. Becoming petty about would likely do more damage to the rep than anything.
The opponent was quite a nice guy there was no disagreements at all the official was just doing his rounds they have generally 3-4 courts between each official and they may spend a minute or two watching one then move on.
 

HOT SHOT

Rookie
Officials tend to back their own so I wouldn't say anything about the official.

AS a lawyer who has done appeals before MANY times. This is the truest statement on the thread. Both the officials are "inside the castle walls". You are not.

I think your best appellate arguments are that, yes, the 20 second rule applies, but was there a visible clock? Was the official using a stopwatch? Or did he just "decide" it was over 20 seconds?

Best of all, when does the 20 seconds start? This one might actually get some traction. How many balls were you playing with? If it were the professional number (nine?) and the errant ball was in some obscure corner,
then I think the official is right. However, if you were only playing with 3 and the errant ball was on the court or within a normal play area where there is a reasonable chance it could come underfoot, then I think you might have a shot.

The player safety argument, under those circumstances just might carry the day. Tangentially mentioning the avoidance of liability issues (a la the verdicts against Pizza Hut for their delivery drivers reckless driving trying to get the pizza there in 30 mins. and killing people along the way) might also help them see things your way.

Just speculating tho'.
2 balls that get changed at the completion of each set lol.
 
Hi folks I have got a code violation (my first) from Tennis Australia for a time violation. Under my email it said I had 364 days to appeal it. Recently I have been told by one of these head officials it is "unappealable". I am fighting it because according to the smarty pants official at the tournament I took 26 seconds between a point in what was a 3.5h match I was told I could only take 20 seconds and because it was a platinum they hold the players to a professional standard. I made the point to the official that it took me at least ten seconds to walk to the net and back to collect one of the balls and that it can't be the exact same rules as the pro circuit in regards to the 20 seconds between points, because it is self umpired (1 official between 3 courts) and we are without ball kids. I am adamant I will find a way to win this I've never broke racquets and never ever got a code before and the last thing I want is something as ridiculous as this to tarnish my reputation especially as a coach. Can I launch a complaint or Investigation with the ITF.

#Irefusetobackdown

Thanks in Advance
So you essentially do not fight the violation but basically question the enforcement of the rule at the amateur level?

This makes it tough to overturn it because the they essentially have to kill the whole rule for a certain subset of matches (amateur matches with no ball kids). I do see your point but this is still a pretty big thing to change because you are not doubting the ump used a clock correctly but you essentially question the rule.

You will essentially need the tennis federation to adapt the rules in order to overturn it.
 

jhupper

Rookie
I call BS.

No supervisor gives a time violation on a one off unless they're a real tyrant. Something else went down.
 
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