Nonsense of the 2025 calendar

Lauren_Girl'

Hall of Fame
Sooo many inconsistencies and absurdities... Where do I start?

The 12 days Masters? Make it stop, please. It's killing the interest and signicantly lowering the prestige of these tournaments. Next year Canada and Cincinnati will join the list too... Only survivors will be Monte-Carlo and Paris. The only Masters that should last more than 1 week are the Sunshine Double (preferably only IW), and maybe Rome... because it's Rome. This new version of Miami in the Hard Rock Stadium is a shame, BTW. Go back to Key Biscayne or make it 1 week. Madrid, Toronto, Cincinnati and Shanghaï will be so boring in the following years, if it doesn't change. And now we just learnt there will be a 10th Masters in Arabia, starting 2027 or 2028. Probably 12 days too. But still no Masters on grass... And less and less room for smaller tournaments.

If these rules aren't changed quickly, the Masters records will become meaningless too. Winning 40+ Masters is going to be a lot "easier" with 10 Masters (instead of 9) per season and more rest between the matches. Winning 5 matches in 6 days was a physical challenge. There will never be fitness issues with this 12 days format. Top favorites can have difficult matches in the opening rounds, it won't matter if they can rest for 48h.

One have to wonder why the WTA has different Masters1000 too. I'll never understand why
- Only 2 clay WTA1000 ? Why not 3 ? Biggest inconsistency. Why can't Monte-Carlo have a WTA1000 the week after men?
- 2 WTA1000 in China? 1 would be enough.
- 0 WTA1000 in Indoors? Ridiculous. Either Beijing or Wuhan should disappear for an Indoors event.
- 2 WTA1000 in the Middle East in February? Why are Dubaï and Doha so important for WTA compared to ATP?

More and more 500 (16), less and less 250 (30). Stupid. Munich and Dallas being 500 is dumb. But I think this is Gaudenzi's long-term plan. He wants to erase most 250 events by 2030. It's terrible news for organizers of 250. I think ultimately, they might completely disappear. The ATP will have 10 Masters1000 and 25-30 ATP500. ATP250 will become the highest category of challengers (175 or 200 points). Just more disparities between the ATP and the ITF... and between rich and poor. Only the top-100 players will be able to participate in tournaments... the rest will be stuck on the challenger tour, with lower and lower salaries.

Personally; I'd rather see the opposite. ATP250 are fun to watch and always full of upsets and great stories. Their number should increase and not decrease. ATP500, in comparison, is a meaningless category. Players are wasting a lot of energy for them instead of saving it for Masters and Slams. They are hardly more prestigious than ATP250 when you compare 2 players who won several Masters and/or Slams. Who cares how many times Djokovic won in Beijing, Federer in Halle and in Nadal in Barcelona? They won't be remembered for winning ATP500. I'm not saying they should disappear, but 12 was more than enough.

And why doesn't the ATP have at least one ATP500 in Australia in January, BTW? WTA has 2 (Brisbane and Adelaïde). If 1 ATP500 was going to come up in 2025, it should have been Adelaïde. Not Dallas or Munich. The Hong-Kong tournament in January needs to go too. Why is there this random Chinese tournament in the middle of the Australian swing? Schedule Hong-Kong in September or October, like every other Asian tournaments. Replace it with a 250 in Perth, Sydney or Hobart.

So many other inconsistencies with 250 and 500. For example, why is there a 250 in Santiago during the same week as 2 ATP500 (Acapulco and Dubaï)? But a week earlier, we also have 2 ATP500 (Doha and Rio) but yet no 250. Later, there is a week with 1 500 on HC (Washington) and 2 250 on clay (Kitzbühel and Umag). Make it make sense. Why can there be THREE different 250 at the same time (example : Delray Beach, Marseille and Bueno-Aires) and weeks with just 1 250 (Geneva for insance). Why are Hamburg and Washington the ONLY isolated ATP500 in 2025? The other 14 500 are happening simultaneously. Tied 2 by 2... Last year they literally put a 500 (Washington) in the middle of the Olympic Games. Dumb and dumber. And then there are these Asian tournaments in September... starting in the middle of a week (first round on Thursday, final on Tuesday or Wednesday). It's such a shambles. A succession of inconsistencies.

ATP and WTA also need to communicate more at the end of the season. Who is going to watch the WTA finals when the Paris Masters is playing the same week? This year the BJK Cup was during the ATP Finals. This isn't a good promotion for women's tennis. It was never the case until recently.

The points distribution is such a mess now. Thanks god the WTA finally made an improvement last year. WTA250 were giving 280 points, WTA500 were giving 470 points and half of the WTA1000 were giving 900 points. But the distribution is still not the same.
- A Slam semifinalist wins 800 points in the ATP... but 780 points in the WTA. (so... ATP>WTA)
- A Slam quarterfinalist wins 400 points in the ATP... but 430 points in the WTA (so... ATP<WTA)
WHY is making a quarterfinal more rewarding for the WTA... but a semifinal is more rewarding for the ATP?
Same goes for every other tournaments, BTW. A R16 in a ATP500 gives 50 points. R16 in a WTA500 gives 60 points.

The old system for the ATP (until 2023) was much better. 1300 points for a Slam finalist is too much, given that Slam winners are still getting the usual 2000 points. Either go back to the former system or give the winner more points (2200). 165 points for the finalist of a 250? 150 points were more than enough if the winner still gets 250. Olympics and Davis Cup should have points again. Especially if the United Cup is giving so much (up to 750 points for an undefeated player in single). Not sure why the rules changed since Rio 2016.

The arrangement of the surfaces is also problematic, but it's nothing new.
- South American tournaments on clay are completely useless in February. It needs to disappear... or happen during the classic clay season. I disagree with Kyrgios for a lot of things but he is right about this. Clay season is April/June. Make a longer clay season if needed (with more 250) but no clay 250 needed in February... or July.
- As useless as Indoor tournaments like Rotterdam. There is already an Indoors season at the end of the year, with multiple 250, then Vienna/Basel, the Paris-Masters... leading to the ATP Finals. Put Rotterdam the same week as Vienna/Basel or the week between Paris and Torino.
- IW/Miami in March is getting more and more useless every year, because they aren't warming up for any Major. Indian Wells or Miami alone would be enough. There should be a longer summer swing before the US Open. Instead of 2 unending Masters, add a 3rd Masters and they all last 1 week except IW. For example... Cincinnati (1 week) and IW (2 weeks) then rest (250 or 500...) then Canada (1 week) before the USO (2 weeks).
- Cincinnati is too fast and too different from the US Open courts. Canada should be before the US Open... just like Rome is before the French Open.
- Make a longer grass season. Only 3 weeks between RG and Wimbledon is absurd. There should be 4 or 5 weeks. It would be doable without these 12 days Masters. Drop Shanghaï, Miami or one of the American HC Masters, add 1 on grass.

In fact if I could make my own calendar.... it would look like this :
- January/February : Australia/Asian season. All on outdoor hard courts. All in Australia or Asia. All warm-ups for Australian Open. Shanghaï at the end of January. Australian Open at the end of February. They did that in 2021, it worked well. To hell with the Middle East tournaments.
- March/April/May : clay season in Europe. Put the few South American clay tournaments here. Keep the same 3 Masters,... only 1 week long. Madrid in late March, Monte-Carlo in late April, Rome in early May... Roland-Garros at the end of May.
- June/July : grass season. A longer one. 7 or 8 weeks. A Masters1000 in the Queen's or Easbrourne in late June. Wimbledon in late July.
- August/September : American swing. Ditch Miami completely (grass Masters replaces it). August with Cincinnati, some 250 and IW (2 weeks). Then some 250 again, Canada Open (1 week)... and US Open at the end of September. Then NO ASIAN SWING (since it already happened in January/February).
- October : Indoor season. 1 week for 250, 1 week for 500 (Vienna/Basel and maybe Rotterdam), 1 week for Paris-Masters. Maybe book 10 days for the ATP Finals. If one tournament should last longer than 1 week, it's the WTF.
Season ends in late October... first week of November at the latest.
More rest for the players and spectators (and for exhibitions). Ending the season around November 20 is too late. Players need a longer vacation. There are still challenger/ITF tournaments every week of the year if they need matches.

I'm aware some of you will emphatically disagree with some or most of these suggestions. That's fine. We're all entitled to our opinions but I think we can all agree there are blatant inconsistencies. A lot of things need to change or this sport is dying slowly but surely. Gaudenzi and his lapdogs need to wake up before it's too late.
 
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nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
250 is dead. With new atp structure in 1990, it already lost meaning. But players did compete in it due to contracts with tournament organizers for appearance fees.

Now the new management has taken a hostile attitude towards 250s. They want to relegate it to challengers level , not to be played by top 32 players. Total scorched earth approach.

So , I move along with what atp is doing. I don't respect 250 tournaments anyway for top players.

We made fun of ruud and his 250s for last 2 years and he finally won a 500. Watching 250s will be harder and harder without big names.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Why should a top 10 player play 250 now. They can make money in exhibitions like laver cup and garden cup and Nordic cup etc.

Play 500s at max 4/5 and play all masters. Enough. 4+9+4 = 17 plus many exhos.

No space for ferrer and ruud on the calendar to vulture their way to top.
 

Robert F

Hall of Fame
I'd be totally fine with top 32 only allowed to play 500's, Masters and Slams if they really marketed the 250s to help build the careers of up and coming players and feed more funds to journeyman players.
In reality, if you pull out the big names without adequate TV coverage and marketing of lower level players, then the 250's will become just local events that will empty out.

I wonder if 250's were linked to Masters or Slam Entries would that be a way to beef them up. Say top 32 get into the masters and the reamining spots are determined by the finalists or semifinalists of several 250s.
 
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Sooo many inconsistencies and absurdities... Where do I start?

The 12 days Masters? Make it stop, please. It's killing the interest and signicantly lowering the prestige of these tournaments. Next year Canada and Cincinnati will join the list too... Only survivors will be Monte-Carlo and Paris. The only Masters that should last more than 1 week are the Sunshine Double (preferably only IW), and maybe Rome... because it's Rome. This new version of Miami in the Hard Rock Stadium is a shame, BTW. Go back to Key Biscayne or make it 1 week. Madrid, Toronto, Cincinnati and Shanghaï will be so boring in the following years, if it doesn't change. And now we just learnt there will be a 10th Masters in Arabia, starting 2027 or 2028. Probably 12 days too. But still no Masters on grass... And less and less room for smaller tournaments.

If these rules aren't changed quickly, the Masters records will become meaningless too. Winning 40+ Masters is going to be a lot "easier" with 10 Masters (instead of 9) per season and more rest between the matches. Winning 5 matches in 6 days was a physical challenge. There will never be fitness issues with this 12 days format. Top favorites can have difficult matches in the opening rounds, it won't matter if they can rest for 48h.

One have to wonder why the WTA has different Masters1000 too. I'll never understand why
- Only 2 clay WTA1000 ? Why not 3 ? Biggest inconsistency. Why can't Monte-Carlo have a WTA1000 the week after men?
- 2 WTA1000 in China? 1 would be enough.
- 0 WTA1000 in Indoors? Ridiculous. Either Beijing or Wuhan should disappear for an Indoors event.
- 2 WTA1000 in the Middle East in February? Why are Dubaï and Doha so important for WTA compared to ATP?

More and more 500 (16), less and less 250 (30). Stupid. Munich and Dallas being 500 is dumb. But I think this is Gaudenzi's long-term plan. He wants to erase most 250 events by 2030. It's terrible news for organizers of 250. I think ultimately, they might completely disappear. The ATP will have 10 Masters1000 and 25-30 ATP500. ATP250 will become the highest category of challengers (175 or 200 points). Just more disparities between the ATP and the ITF... and between rich and poor. Only the top-100 players will be able to participate in tournaments... the rest will be stuck on the challenger tour, with lower and lower salaries.

Personally; I'd rather see the opposite. ATP250 are fun to watch and always full of upsets and great stories. Their number should increase and not decrease. ATP500, in comparison, is a meaningless category. Players are wasting a lot of energy for them instead of saving it for Masters and Slams. They are hardly more prestigious than ATP250 when you compare 2 players who won several Masters and/or Slams. Who cares how many times Djokovic won in Beijing, Federer in Halle and in Nadal in Barcelona? They won't be remembered for winning ATP500. I'm not saying they should disappear, but 12 was more than enough.

And why doesn't the ATP have at least one ATP500 in Australia in January, BTW? WTA has 2 (Brisbane and Adelaïde). If 1 ATP500 was going to come up in 2025, it should have been Adelaïde. Not Dallas or Munich. The Hong-Kong tournament in January needs to go too. Why is there this random Chinese tournament in the middle of the Australian swing? Schedule Hong-Kong in September or October, like every other Asian tournaments. Replace it with a 250 in Perth, Sydney or Hobart.

So many other inconsistencies with 250 and 500. For example, why is there a 250 in Santiago during the same week as 2 ATP500 (Acapulco and Dubaï)? But a week earlier, we also have 2 ATP500 (Doha and Rio) but yet no 250. Later, there is a week with 1 500 on HC (Washington) and 2 250 on clay (Kitzbühel and Umag). Make it make sense. Why can there be THREE different 250 at the same time (example : Delray Beach, Marseille and Bueno-Aires) and weeks with just 1 250 (Geneva for insance). Why are Hamburg and Washington the ONLY isolated ATP500 in 2025? The other 14 500 are happening simultaneously. Tied 2 by 2... Last year they literally put a 500 (Washington) in the middle of the Olympic Games. Dumb and dumber. And then there are these Asian tournaments in September... starting in the middle of a week (first round on Thursday, final on Tuesday or Wednesday). It's such a shambles. A succession of inconsistencies.

ATP and WTA also need to communicate more at the end of the season. Who is going to watch the WTA finals when the Paris Masters is playing the same week? This year the BJK Cup was during the ATP Finals. This isn't a good promotion for women's tennis. It was never the case until recently.

The points distribution is such a mess now. Thanks god the WTA finally made an improvement last year. WTA250 were giving 280 points, WTA500 were giving 470 points and half of the WTA1000 were giving 900 points. But the distribution is still not the same.
- A Slam semifinalist wins 800 points in the ATP... but 780 points in the WTA. (so... ATP>WTA)
- A Slam quarterfinalist wins 400 points in the ATP... but 430 points in the WTA (so... ATP<WTA)
WHY is making a quarterfinal more rewarding for the WTA... but a semifinal is more rewarding for the ATP?
Same goes for every other tournaments, BTW. A R16 in a ATP500 gives 50 points. R16 in a WTA500 gives 60 points.

The old system for the ATP (until 2023) was much better. 1300 points for a Slam finalist is too much, given that Slam winners are still getting the usual 2000 points. Either go back to the former system or give the winner more points (2200). 165 points for the finalist of a 250? 150 points were more than enough if the winner still gets 250. Olympics and Davis Cup should have points again. Especially if the United Cup is giving so much (up to 750 points for an undefeated player in single). Not sure why the rules changed since Rio 2016.

The arrangement of the surfaces is also problematic, but it's nothing new.
- South American tournaments on clay are completely useless in February. It needs to disappear... or happen during the classic clay season. I disagree with Kyrgios for a lot of things but he is right about this. Clay season is April/June. Make a longer clay season if needed (with more 250) but no clay 250 needed in February... or July.
- As useless as Indoor tournaments like Rotterdam. There is already an Indoors season at the end of the year, with multiple 250, then Vienna/Basel, the Paris-Masters... leading to the ATP Finals. Put Rotterdam the same week as Vienna/Basel or the week between Paris and Torino.
- IW/Miami in March is getting more and more useless every year, because they aren't warming up for any Major. Indian Wells or Miami alone would be enough. There should be a longer summer swing before the US Open. Instead of 2 unending Masters, add a 3rd Masters and they all last 1 week except IW. For example... Cincinnati (1 week) and IW (2 weeks) then rest (250 or 500...) then Canada (1 week) before the USO (2 weeks).
- Cincinnati is too fast and too different from the US Open courts. Canada should be before the US Open... just like Rome is before the French Open.
- Make a longer grass season. Only 3 weeks between RG and Wimbledon is absurd. There should be 4 or 5 weeks. It would be doable without these 12 days Masters. Drop Shanghaï, Miami or one of the American HC Masters, add 1 on grass.

In fact if I could make my own calendar.... it would look like this :
- January/February : Australia/Asian season. All on outdoor hard courts. All in Australia or Asia. All warm-ups for Australian Open. Shanghaï at the end of January. Australian Open at the end of February. They did that in 2021, it worked well. To hell with the Middle East tournaments.
- March/April/May : clay season in Europe. Put the few South American clay tournaments here. Keep the same 3 Masters,... only 1 week long. Madrid in late March, Monte-Carlo in late April, Rome in early May... Roland-Garros at the end of May.
- June/July : grass season. A longer one. 7 or 8 weeks. A Masters1000 in the Queen's or Easbrourne in late June. Wimbledon in late July.
- August/September : American swing. Ditch Miami completely (grass Masters replaces it). August with Cincinnati, some 250 and IW (2 weeks). Then some 250 again, Canada Open (1 week)... and US Open at the end of September. Then NO ASIAN SWING (since it already happened in January/February).
- October : Indoor season. 1 week for 250, 1 week for 500 (Vienna/Basel and maybe Rotterdam), 1 week for Paris-Masters. Maybe book 10 days for the ATP Finals. If one tournament should last longer than 1 week, it's the WTF.
Season ends in late October... first week of November at the latest.
More rest for the players and spectators (and for exhibitions). Ending the season around November 20 is too late. Players need a longer vacation. There are still challenger/ITF tournaments every week of the year if they need matches.

I'm aware some of you will emphatically disagree with some or most of these suggestions. That's fine. We're all entitled to our opinions but I think we can all agree there are blatant inconsistencies. A lot of things need to change or this sport is dying slowly but surely. Gaudenzi and his lapdogs need to wake up before it's too late.

TLDR
 

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
I'd be totally fine with top 32 only allowed to play 500's, Masters and Slams if they really marketed the 250s to help build the careers of up and coming players and feed more funds to journeyman players.
In reality, if you pull out the big names without adequate TV coverage and marketing of lower level players, then the 250's will become just local events that will empty out.

I wonder if 250's were linked to Masters or Slam Entries would that be a way to beef them up. Say top 32 get into the masters and the reamining spots are determined by the finalists or semifinalists of several 250s.

This! The ATP does very little to build up younger players (at least historically). Although I didn't like it at first, the NextGen Finals was a good step in the right direction.
 

Robert F

Hall of Fame
Listening to Roddick's podcast the only problem with my idea is how do you attract fans if you don't have a top ten player come to the event?
I know this regards the WTA but Austin did all this press for Keys and Pegula coming to play and then Keys had to pull our when her rank was too high.

So if 250's can't have top 32, then you really need to support the 250s with marketing and other incentives so people want to watch it and fill stadiums to pay the bills.
 
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