Not all Year End #1 are equally impressive
- Thread starter TMF
- Start date
Rolling, rolling, rolling.....
FO is worth 1 GS,
AO is worth 1 GS,
W is worth 1 GS, and
USO is worth 1 GS.....
So simple, and yet so misunderstood!
Mayonnaise
Banned
You actually take his posts seriously? :lol:
Mayonnaise
Banned
Agreed. And 1500 > 1000 > 750. So easy.
You are only saying this because you are Nadal fan.
Ask any objective person and most will say W is the holy grail.
I think you meant subjective.....
Just like I subjectively think Wimbledon is quaint and historic!
But that a true test is winning on surfaces folks play on most....
Grass and Clay are traditional courts.... Hard court is new.
Yet most play on clay or hard court. So, one could argue the competition is stronger there, due the amount of time played on the courts. Of course, that doesn't mean the GS count any more, as each GS equals 1.... Being a HC player gives one the best opportunities for percentage successs....
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mightyrick
Legend
That is absolutely not true. That is what any biased person would say. The original 3 majors all started in the late 1800s. They are all romanticized and all have immense history. None of them are the "holy grail". That is complete nonsense.
All I can say about Wimbledon is this. For this sport to have a grass slam tournament without even one MS1000 event is a travesty. It is an ultra short season. A complete joke compared to the HC and Clay season.
In the HC and Clay seasons, players get lots of practice on those surfaces before the slam takes place. Even a few MS1000s.
On grass, players get one small warmup tournament? Then straight into Wimbledon? After having played several tournaments on the polar opposite surface? Nobody gets any real time to get accustomed to grass. Nobody gets any real practice. It is absolutely horrible.
I won't say a Wimbledon is worth less than any other slam, but I will say that Wimbledon is more likely than any tournament to serve up either huge upsets or have a single player consistently mow over the entire field (no pun intended). The surface just doesn't have enough tournaments to make it fair for the players.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
the ATP's perspective is only yours and NatF's bible/dictate.
others can think for themselves and form their own opinions
Who is your favourite player? Can you tell me?
NatF
Bionic Poster
the ATP's perspective is only yours and NatF's bible/dictate.
others can think for themselves and form their own opinions
Yes you're free to form an opinion as moronic as it may be and even espouse that view on the internet if you wish.
Everyone else knows that exhibitions tournaments don't grant ranking points :lol:
Mayonnaise
Banned
the ATP's perspective is only yours and NatF's bible/dictate.
others can think for themselves and form their own opinions
You are entitled to your opinion. But you're not entitled to your facts. The WTF is not an exhibition, and that is a fact.
Hey it is what it is. You need to accept reality. I didn't make the rules. It's reality, it's not that I want it to be so. I didn't just decided that W is the most important. It was since I started to watch tennis.
You do know that what we want or believe or fans of what player we are is irrelevant to the truth?
You really need to know the difference between something believing to be true or wanting to be true and actually being true.
But hey go ahead believing that stats that favor your player are the most important ones.
mightyrick
Legend
My favorite players were Safin, Agassi, and Roddick. I was always a fan of empassioned players who would talk almost unfiltered to the media, to the umpires, to their opponents, and to their fans.
I don't currently have a favorite player. When Roddick retired, there was nobody else.
I guess Gulbis is also a passionate, unfiltered player... but there's something about him that bothers me. I'm not sure what it is.
Well fine, in that case Federer exhibited most skills here.
I feel pretty, I feel pretty
.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
:lol::lol::lol:
So, yo don't have any favorite players? No wonder your life is so empty, so you need to trash Fed all the time out of boredom
.Go ahead, I don't mind, I just wanted to see your reasons.
Mayonnaise
Banned
So, yo don't have any favorite players? No wonder your life is so empty, so you need to trash Fed all the time out of boredom
Go ahead, I don't mind, I just wanted to see your reasons.
Federer single-handed destroyed the careers of a few of his favorite players.
Mayonnaise
Banned
Masters > Olympics. The ATP says so. Deal 8)
Yeah, that too. And what a coincidence that he was devaluing grass while none of his favorite players won W
.No wonder he says HC has the most competition. Safin and Roddick only won on HC.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, that too. And what a coincidence that he was devaluing grass while none of his favorite players won W
No wonder he says HC has the most competition. Safin and Roddick only won on HC.
Agassi has won Wimby, guy
or is that another attempt at sarcasm by you?
mightyrick
Legend
So, yo don't have any favorite players? No wonder your life is so empty, so you need to trash Fed all the time out of boredom
Go ahead, I don't mind, I just wanted to see your reasons.
You guys take this way, way too seriously. You realize that we're talking about a tennis player, right? A swiss guy who hits a ball with a woven racquet for a living.
I don't "trash Fed". I think he's actually developed into a great person and a great player. I think the same of Nadal. Djokovic is also finally maturing and coming into his own. I think all of these guys are great.
What is incredible is that you guys think I "trash Fed" just because I don't believe he's the greatest ever. GOAT is a place I reserve for Pancho Gonzales. It's all or nothing with a lot of you Federer/Nadal/Djokovic fans on this board.
I cannot believe people get so irate when we're talking about being amongst the top five players in tennis history. Really?
mightyrick
Legend
Yeah, that too. And what a coincidence that he was devaluing grass while none of his favorite players won W
No wonder he says HC has the most competition. Safin and Roddick only won on HC.
BTW, you completely misinterpreted my post as a trashing of Federer. Which is not unlike a lot of your Federer fans.
To be clear. I actually think tennis was better when there was a full grass season.
But if you are going to have a grass slam, then have a full grass season. You have to give players a chance to play a couple of 250s/500s and a couple of MS1000s on a surface before the slam comes.
Then what is the reason you don't accept reality then? I don't care who you think is the goat. Just accept the reality and let's move on. And it is that W is perceived the most important tennis tournament. Not just by fans but by pros too.
So, you have to be biased or have some agenda not accepting reality. What else could it be?
Fine I can accept Pancho is goat or whatever, it still doesn't change the fact that W is nr.1 tennis tournament. Our beliefs are irrelevant. What we want is irrelevant. It is the way it is.
Ok maybe thrashing was a strong word. But you try to devalue Fed's achievements all the time. I don't mind, it's irrelevant. But you are doing it without good evidence or logic. This is the problem.
Some things aren't subjective, so all opinions aren't equal.
eldanger25
Hall of Fame
We agree about Gonzales - if there's such a thing as best ever, it'd be him - all the stats, plus busting through the tennis culture barriers and dominating to such an extent that they even tried outlawing S&V for awhile to make his matches more competitive.
You and I disagree about 2013 - I don't see any tennis reasons to call Djokovic Player of the Year, and I'm not convinced by the mere fact of a closed door ITF vote. But we agree on Pancho, for sure.
The PLTA (another closed door institution) boned Gonzales over in 1952 for its PoY award, for what it's worth. Not entirely sure it was for pure tennis reasons, too - lots of opportunities for bias or personal dislikes to get in the way in those settings, and Gonzales had his share of enemies/rivals in the tennis world.
eldanger25
Hall of Fame
I sort of agree with both of you - all the slams are worth the same, but if you want to be remembered as the best of the best, you need to've won Wimbledon (and ideally more than once).
nice try - you claimed that no legitimate sport will have RR format (moronic position to begin with, but hey, this is you, so it is something to expect), and you didn't draw a distinction between team sport or individual sport.
pray tell how the difference and distinction matters in this case - i'm waiting
And all tennis players know Nadal owns Feds azz. Which is more noticeable in the scheme of things..... I think it's Nadals Ownage of Fed.....
Mayonnaise
Banned
Too bad Nadal, with all his ownage of Federer, couldn't stop him from becoming the GOAT :lol: Meanwhile, Federer broke Nadal's body and Nadal can't seem to play football with his buddies anymore.
And yet, Federer just folds like a blanket either at the prospect of playing Nadal or during the match these days.....
Mayonnaise
Banned
Not long before Nadal folds like a wet tissue to everyone on tour :twisted:
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
Mardy Fish and Ronald Federer have been lobbying for years to glorify the exo even further. Wouldn’t be surprised to see fireworks or exotic dancers on changeovers come Thanksgiving season this year!:lol:
With the Exception of Fed.......
conway
Banned
Too bad Nadal haters have been saying that since 2006 now. Maybe in yet another 8 years they will finally be right.
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
It’s all relative and depends on the context, you see. Perhaps what is meant by “not long” is “not as long as it will take for Federer to claim a Career Gold Slam by winning the Olympics”!:lol:
Wimbledon is the most prestigious grand slam tournament
What is the most Most Prestigious Grand Slam Tennis Tournament ?
1.Wimbledon
2.U.S. Open
3.French Open
4.Australian Open
What is the most Most Prestigious Grand Slam Tennis Tournament ?
1.Wimbledon
2.U.S. Open
3.French Open
4.Australian Open
DRII
G.O.A.T.
nice try - you claimed that no legitimate sport will have RR format (moronic position to begin with, but hey, this is you, so it is something to expect), and you didn't draw a distinction between team sport or individual sport.
pray tell how the difference and distinction matters in this case - i'm waiting
you obviously can't, or won't, read.
"slams (or any other legitimate tournament) aren't played in overall RR format, which is only for entertainment (ie for the spectacle) purposes! huge difference!"
if you're going to make a fool of yourself, at least get your quoting right
True, but irrelevant. Luckily tennis is not about h2h. You don't need to own everybody to be the best. You only need to own most of the field most of the time to be the best.
Rafa is not nr.1 on HC, grass, indoor in his era. So, you see that h2h doesn't work because based on the h2h Rafa would have to have all the records by now and lead on all surfaces in titles.
I know why it doesn't work, but do you know?
I don't see this as taking away from Fed's legacy. It just adds to Rafa's legacy.
It's not that big of a deal to fold to a 14 GS winner. It's much worse to fold vs Darcis, Rosol, Kyrgy in your prime in the biggest tennis event.
At least Fed still beat Rafa at W in his prime. Plus Rafa is 2 W winner and 5 time finalist.
What are Darcis, Rosol and Kyrgy on grass? Please don't embarrass yourself further
.Look, unlike other topics, this is NOT an opinion to debate. The fact is Wimbledon is the universally accepted that it's the biggest sport event in tennis, just like the World Cup is the biggest in soccer. There's no dispute unless you're in denial.
At least this isn't as pathetic as some fanatics keep being dishonest about the WTF is an exhibition.
It's amusing that NatF continue to humiliate DRII again and again.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Rankings-FAQ.aspx
I don't know about him but my argument is that I'm a big Fed fan and I want Fed to look better. And he looks better if USO is above FO.
But I assure you, I'm objective. If Fed won tons of FOs, I would have put FO above USO. So, you see I can change my mind when proven wrong.
They use a survey that asked 108 top players to rank the slams in order of prestige:
1.Wimbledon
2.U.S. Open
3.French Open
4.Australian Open
The FO has lower in media hit and prize money than the USO.
F
FedererWinsWimbledon2014
Guest
The French and US are very tight. There is no real difference. Australia is number 4 and Wimbledon is of course the most prestigious.
Anyone who disputes Wimbledon's status is either deluded or stupid or a hater or a troll.
It like in golf somebody saying the PGA is equal to The Masters. lol
Both players now have 3 YE #1
Nadal 3 YE #1:
2008: 82-11(88%); 2 slams, 2 slam finals, 8 titles
2010: 71-10(88%); 3 slams, 3 slam finals, 7 titles
2013: 75-7(91%); 2 slams, 3 slam finals, 10 titles
Nole 2 YE #1:
2011: 70-6(92%); 3 slams, 3 slam finals, 10 titles
2012: 75-12(86%); 1 slams, 3 slam finals, YEC, 6 titles
2014: 60-8(88%); 1 slams, 2 slam finals, YEC(?), 6 or 7 titles
Let say Nole wins the WTF this year since he's the favorite and is likely to win, Nadal 3 years #1 is more impressive than Nole.
Total:
Nadal:7 slams, 8 slam finals, 0 YEC, 25 titles
Nole:5 slams, 8 slam finals, 2 YEC, 23 titles
Nadal 3 YE #1:
2008: 82-11(88%); 2 slams, 2 slam finals, 8 titles
2010: 71-10(88%); 3 slams, 3 slam finals, 7 titles
2013: 75-7(91%); 2 slams, 3 slam finals, 10 titles
Nole 2 YE #1:
2011: 70-6(92%); 3 slams, 3 slam finals, 10 titles
2012: 75-12(86%); 1 slams, 3 slam finals, YEC, 6 titles
2014: 60-8(88%); 1 slams, 2 slam finals, YEC(?), 6 or 7 titles
Let say Nole wins the WTF this year since he's the favorite and is likely to win, Nadal 3 years #1 is more impressive than Nole.
Total:
Nadal:7 slams, 8 slam finals, 0 YEC, 25 titles
Nole:5 slams, 8 slam finals, 2 YEC, 23 titles
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
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