WTF. They are not wanting to be above the game. They just want to skip the tournament since it does not provide adequate practice for the main event of the season - RG. They would much rather rest up than play an event that does not have much significance now, with the altered conditions. I don't see anything wrong with it.
Not only do I hope they keep the blue clay in Madrid, but make all clay blue.
- Thread starter BreakPoint
- Start date
I don't either. If they don't want the points, no problem.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Then what you are saying is they will also skip any grass tourneys before Wimbledon as well.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic and Nadal didn't have an issue with the color of the court. They were concerned because it was too slippery and they couldn't move well on it.
That being said I have no problems watching Rome via an Internet stream on my 14" laptop. You people need to go see an eye doctor.
That being said I have no problems watching Rome via an Internet stream on my 14" laptop. You people need to go see an eye doctor.
I agree with them that if they don't want to play this tournament next year then don't. Instead they threatened not to show up if they don't rid of the blue clay. That's not professional. Those statements are not befitting of a leader. They are childish and spiteful words. A leader states the problem and gives solutions to solve the problem. Getting rid of the clay is not the only solution to this problem. At least Rafa tried to play. Djokovic, who I thought had matured after his amazing 2011, was disgraceful in his performance against Tipsarevic.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
What's the matter with refusing to risk injury playing on a crappy surface?
No one was injured because all other players realized the limitations of the surface and made adjustments. I saw all the players slipping and sliding all over the court. Serena Williams landed on her backside. I didn't see everyone play but Djokovic was the only one that I did see who gave such a obviously poor effort in a match. Then to make matters worse, during the press conference after a glaring tank (players have been fined for poor efforts in the past), he threatens to boycott the tournament unless his demands are met. He's the #1 player in the world. With great ranking comes great responsibility. Nadal or Federer would have never done that.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
More players were injured on Nadal's "perfect" red clay in Monte Carlo than on the "crappy" blue clay in Madrid. Should Monaco and Benneteau boycott Monte Carlo next year? Just because they are lower ranked players, why are their opinions about court surfaces any less relevant?
FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
Nadal was against the color change long before he knew the courts would slippery.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
I'm watching the replay of the Federer-Berlocq match right now on my HDTV and I can barely see the ball when it's in play, especially when it's on the far side of the court, it all but disappears. :-?
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkMK95HUvtQ
Even with Youtube compression and a 14" screen I can see the ball reasonably well in full screen.
Yes, the blue court makes it easier to see the ball. But I don't have an issue with red clay at all.
What's next? Blue grass in Wimbledon?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
It looks like they filtered out the glare from the sun in that Youtube clip. Try watching the full match as broadcast on TV on an HDTV, the ball almost disappears.
Off topic-used to watch with my mom in the 1980's, then it was off and on in the 1990's. Started back up in 2006. Never paid attention to the color of the courts. Also, regarding Rafa and Nole's complaining, I'll have to do some research but this is the first time I've heard Djoko complain about something.
Exactly how long have you been following tennis?
EDIT: Since 2008 I assume.
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Cindysphinx
G.O.A.T.
Another vote for blue clay.
I watch most of my tennis on a 22 inch flat screen. Half of the time I am multi-tasking, like making dinner.
I straight up cannot see the ball unless I stand still in front of the set and concentrate.
Give me blue clay. I was able to see the ball at all times. I initially didn't like the blue clay, but now I am a convert.
I watch most of my tennis on a 22 inch flat screen. Half of the time I am multi-tasking, like making dinner.
I straight up cannot see the ball unless I stand still in front of the set and concentrate.
Give me blue clay. I was able to see the ball at all times. I initially didn't like the blue clay, but now I am a convert.
1
1970CRBase
Guest
Sometimes I think as far as Swoosh is concerned, tennis players are mainly models for their wares who just happen to also play some tennis, thus why we were told "people want to see more rallies". I suppose that sideways grinding on the baseline and hitting 2890 balls every rally is better for showing off the corporate logos on TV than following an unreturnable serve into the net.
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Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Different networks treat the same footage slightly differently so the colours can end up over-saturated etc., which ruining the contrast levels etc. Also, changing between refresh rates can wreak havoc on the quality of motion footage.
I really don't know why there are so many people here claiming they can't understand how some people can't see the ball easily. It's a really simple concept if you can read: They. Can't. See. The. Ball. Easily.
I struggle seeing the ball a lot of the time here at the Rome tournament - on a 52 inch HD TV (I don't wear or need glasses for anything either). Yet at the French Open it's fine. Different cameras, settings, network feed, post-production etc can make or ruin the quality of the footage.
FlashFlare11
Hall of Fame
I don't think RG should change. It should stay red. The French Open has a lot of history, and their stadium courts look more prestigious with red clay. I like it, actually.
Besides, we've seen the outrage against a newly-minted clay Masters 1000 event changing from red to blue clay. Imagine if a Grand Slam event did so. Because of Madrid, people will begin to associate blue clay with slipperiness and fast conditions, and it will take quite some time for it to get rid of that misunderstanding. For Nadal, it may take years.
Besides, we've seen the outrage against a newly-minted clay Masters 1000 event changing from red to blue clay. Imagine if a Grand Slam event did so. Because of Madrid, people will begin to associate blue clay with slipperiness and fast conditions, and it will take quite some time for it to get rid of that misunderstanding. For Nadal, it may take years.
stormholloway
Legend
I have great vision. I'm able to read text at long distances, yet it is obvious, and probably scientifically quantifiable that the ball over the blue surface is far easier to track. Why do you think the US Open switched to blue? Honestly, answer that question.
Clearly you're missing the point: this isn't about seeing the ball vs not seeing it. This is about seeing it better vs seeing it not as well. When the sun hits red clay, the color effect isn't that far from yellow, and if you weren't aware, tennis balls are yellow.
I'll let you figure out the conclusion.
I've watched Rome on my 50 inch Panasonic HD and I've never had any problem seeing the ball. Furthermore, I didn't notice any difference in watching the Madrid Open on the same set. The only thing I noticed was sloppy tennis with players losing their footing. I also thought the blue clay looked gaudy.
Here's another simple concept: No. One. Liked. The. Blue. Clay. It. Is. Just. A. Gimmick.
namelessone
Legend
I think Tiriac trolled us, he said the blue was for tv viewers(27% better, amirite?) but red clay is fine to watch on tv. He probably did it for the internet viewers.
I don't care if you have x-ray vision, the blue clay is no significant improvement in terms of ball visibility.
This court looks better though (and features better tennis than this year's tournament):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZBHDyHgbV4
Here's an idea, why don't we see if the All England Club will dye its grass blue. Grass is green, in case you weren't aware.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Oh really? Looks to me like almost 90% of the people surveyed liked the new blue clay more than the old red clay.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=423864
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
This color contrast wheel says otherwise:
Yellow and dark blue are on opposite ends of the color wheel which means the two colors are complementary and provide the most contrast from each other. Look at how close yellow is to orange (the color of "red" clay courts).
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Red clay sucks if you are using a 240p internet stream or watching most clay highlight videos on youtube.
I never had any issue seeing the ball on red clay on a nice TV set.
With that said, the blue clay looked beautiful on my HD TV and I grew quite fond of it.
I never had any issue seeing the ball on red clay on a nice TV set.
With that said, the blue clay looked beautiful on my HD TV and I grew quite fond of it.
Great Nadal was correct as usual.
From another thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=424410
Carlos Moya explains what happened with the Madrid courts. The problem, he says, was salt. I don't have time to translate the whole thing, just give you the gist of what he says.
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/...63_765218.html
Moya says during the first three editions of the tournament there had been some problems with the courts as well. Because of this, they wanted to make an extra effort to ensure there would not be any problems the first time on blue clay.
They opened the courts to the public several months before the tournament so people would come, walk on them and play on them. They also had an agreement with the Madrid federation so that local schools would come and use the courts. Moya says he himself tried the courts several times. He played with Pato Clavet and other players, and says they didn’t notice anything unusual except that the the bounce was a bit lower than on the red clay. He says Javi Martí (ranked 174) also tried the courts several times and never had any complaints. Moya played on them for the last time on 3 May before leaving for a senior tournament in Medellín (Colombia). He didn’t notice anything strange. Then, from Medellín, he spoke with some on the players already in Madrid, including Rafa, who told him the courts were unplayable. He thought maybe he was exaggerating, but there were other players telling him the same thing.
When he came back to Madrid on May 8 he went straight from the airport to the courts to see what the matter was, and he was amazed to discover that the courts had become something completely different from what he had tested. “I couldn’t believe it. It was impossible to get any traction on them and I had seldom seen a clay court in such slippery condition.”
After much wondering and trying to figure out what had happened, the team that built the courts suspected the problem was the salt. He says they use salt also at Roland Garros and many other tournaments, to preserve the humidity of the clay and give it a more uniform color. With the water and the high heat in Madrid that week, the salt “crystalized” into an unbreakeable film on top of the surface, making it very slippery. This was discovered too late, and showed that what may work in Paris doesn’t necessarily work in Madrid.
Goes on to say that the Madrid altitude, plus the lower bounce on this kind of clay, combined with the courts becoming a “skating rink”, was a "lethal combination" for the defensive players and they all thought Federer was the favorite, as it turned out.
He says it’s a pity all these unforeseen developments ended up creating a rift between Nadal and the tournament, and says it’s not to late to try to mend things. Says next year should be okay because the courts are going to stay on the entire year etc. That’s assuming the ATP allows the blue to continue.
From another thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=424410
Carlos Moya explains what happened with the Madrid courts. The problem, he says, was salt. I don't have time to translate the whole thing, just give you the gist of what he says.
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/...63_765218.html
Moya says during the first three editions of the tournament there had been some problems with the courts as well. Because of this, they wanted to make an extra effort to ensure there would not be any problems the first time on blue clay.
They opened the courts to the public several months before the tournament so people would come, walk on them and play on them. They also had an agreement with the Madrid federation so that local schools would come and use the courts. Moya says he himself tried the courts several times. He played with Pato Clavet and other players, and says they didn’t notice anything unusual except that the the bounce was a bit lower than on the red clay. He says Javi Martí (ranked 174) also tried the courts several times and never had any complaints. Moya played on them for the last time on 3 May before leaving for a senior tournament in Medellín (Colombia). He didn’t notice anything strange. Then, from Medellín, he spoke with some on the players already in Madrid, including Rafa, who told him the courts were unplayable. He thought maybe he was exaggerating, but there were other players telling him the same thing.
When he came back to Madrid on May 8 he went straight from the airport to the courts to see what the matter was, and he was amazed to discover that the courts had become something completely different from what he had tested. “I couldn’t believe it. It was impossible to get any traction on them and I had seldom seen a clay court in such slippery condition.”
After much wondering and trying to figure out what had happened, the team that built the courts suspected the problem was the salt. He says they use salt also at Roland Garros and many other tournaments, to preserve the humidity of the clay and give it a more uniform color. With the water and the high heat in Madrid that week, the salt “crystalized” into an unbreakeable film on top of the surface, making it very slippery. This was discovered too late, and showed that what may work in Paris doesn’t necessarily work in Madrid.
Goes on to say that the Madrid altitude, plus the lower bounce on this kind of clay, combined with the courts becoming a “skating rink”, was a "lethal combination" for the defensive players and they all thought Federer was the favorite, as it turned out.
He says it’s a pity all these unforeseen developments ended up creating a rift between Nadal and the tournament, and says it’s not to late to try to mend things. Says next year should be okay because the courts are going to stay on the entire year etc. That’s assuming the ATP allows the blue to continue.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
No one said they can't see the ball at all. Was watching a game yesterday with 2 big tree shadows on court. Was not easy to keep eyes on the ball due to the bright area, shade and the ball. Blue courts were far easier to track the ball.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Exactly. But it goes like this.
Nadal: "Blue clay is against tradition. It is slippery. I don't like it."
VB:"Blue clay is evil (the colour as well)"
-------
After the next year tournament
Nadal "Now it plays similar to red clay. They fixed it, and I am happy to participate."
VB: confused
VB: "Yes blue clay is OK. It still is against the tradition, but it is not a biggie"
(and if Nadal wins the tournament) with patronizing voice "Yeah, its is against the tradition, but it is still clay"
kragster
Hall of Fame
Blue is certainly much easier on the eyes in my book. I remember growing up, when I would watch tennis, I never realized I needed glasses until I watched the RG. Of course if you have an HDTV and good vision, then it's not an issue but nonetheless of all the colors I found red to be the worst to spot the yellow ball. I love looking at green the best ( I think there is also some research proving that of all the colors green is the most soothing).
I don't think they should change the blue color at all , all they need is to fix the whole slipperiness issue.
I don't think they should change the blue color at all , all they need is to fix the whole slipperiness issue.
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Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Who the heck is this VB who keeps coming up ???
Yeah, blue is against tradition, but slow courts aren't, 2 year ranking systems aren't, MTO's aren't, delaying coin toss isn't, toweling off between serves and taking 40 seconds to serve isn't. Excessive vamoses aren't.
Tell me what else is not. (just trollin')
Yeah, blue is against tradition, but slow courts aren't, 2 year ranking systems aren't, MTO's aren't, delaying coin toss isn't, toweling off between serves and taking 40 seconds to serve isn't. Excessive vamoses aren't.
Tell me what else is not. (just trollin')
kragster
Hall of Fame
I may be unaware of this but has Nadal opposed the speeding of courts? (Especially hard courts). That he prefers slower courts is a given but I can't remember him ever saying that courts (non clay) shouldn't be sped up.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Great post and +1. I have a 55" Samsung 1080i and watch TC in HD as well. Rome sucks compared to Madrid. I also like the fact that at Madrid, the ball could be put away. If they fix the courts, it'll be spectacular to watch.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Nadal is close friends with Moya and Moya has been Nadal's mentor from when Nadal was very young. Heck, Nadal even started using the Babolat Pure Drive because his idol Moya used it. They are both from the island of Mallorca.
I'm sure Moya will be able to convince Nadal to play Madrid next year on the blue clay courts. For Nadal to blow off Madrid next year, it would be the same as him telling Moya to F-off. He's not going to do that to his close friend.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
It's easier to see the ball at Wimbledon on the green grass because it's almost always cloudy and gloomy there, without the bright sunshine that can wash out the color of the ball and the courts.
JustBob
Hall of Fame
You can see the ball fine if the conditions are "even", by that I mean all shade or all sun (although all shade is better), but did you guys just watch the Gasquet vs Murray match? The court was a patchwork of uneven shady and sunny areas and it was almost impossible to see the ball at all times. You just kept losing it and picking it up again during rallies.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Yes, that's why Tiriac came up with the idea of changing the red clay to blue clay because he wanted to alienate all the "normal people". :???:
No, we are not color blind. The color wheel proves what we're saying about the difficulty of picking up a yellow ball against an orange background, especially when the bright sun washes out everything to a yellowish hue.
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