Not Today Kid: Djoker still the best

Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
Alcaraz might be the next big thing.
He might be greater than the big 3.
He might win the uso.
He might be all these things...


not-today-no.gif
 
M

Midaso240

Legend
Nah, it only solidifies Alcaraz as the favourite for the USO for me. Come on, the winners were 42-19 to Alcaraz but he hit 50 unforced errors or something. He hasn't been in great form all week, and still came within a couple of points of winning
 
Rurumania

Rurumania

Rookie
Midaso240 said:
Nah, it only solidifies Alcaraz as the favourite for the USO for me. Come on, the winners were 42-19 to Alcaraz but he hit 50 unforced errors or something. He hasn't been in great form all week, and still came within a couple of points of winning
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Solidfies how? They were playing in hot humid conditions which Djokovic hates and he still lost

If they meet in a final and it's cooler then Djokovic wins. The difference in the serve/return dynamic between the 2 is massive. (Just look the BPs created)
 
Clay lover

Clay lover

Legend
A few things.

Djokocaraz matches will continue to be close as ever for another one or even two years.

Djokovic's mental toughness and fitness are still as good as ever.

Alcaraz should still be credited for trying to figure things out to claw his way back into the match in the third. It takes special material and he's the only one who possesses it out of the next gen
 
M

Midaso240

Legend
Rurumania said:
Solidfies how? They were playing in hot humid conditions which Djokovic hates and he still lost

If they meet in a final and it's cooler then Djokovic wins. The difference in the serve/return dynamic between the 2 is massive. (Just look the BPs created)
Click to expand...
Nowhere is the serve/return dynamic more important than at Wimbledon and Alcaraz won. I believe over 5 sets, he has the advantage over Djokovic. They weren't exactly on level pegging today, Alcaraz had spent twice as long on court over the tournament
 
Lozo1016

Lozo1016

Hall of Fame
I agree with you, but I think we'd be in the minority

Who Do You Consider The Best Player In The World?

Both hold 2 of the 4 Slam titles. Alcaraz missed AO, while Djokovic missed USO They're 1-1 in Slam matches (but Alcaraz leads 2-1 overall) Djokovic was the betting underdog in RG, but beat Alcaraz. Alcaraz was the betting underdog at Wimbledon, but beat Djokovic Alcaraz has Indian Wells +...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com
 
M

mika1979

Professional
Super high quality match. Big hitting great gets. I think Carlos is the real deal, as he doesnt give up. I think Djokovic could have done better on big points and needs to sure up his serve. This was quality and doesnt bring down either player.
 
AO13

AO13

Hall of Fame
What a match. Good God. Out of words.

Carlos might actually become my 2nd favorite player of all time. The kid has balls of steel and has EVERYTHING. A perfect player, perfect mind, all skills. No Fed's arrogance, no Rafa's weird rituals, no Novak's anger issues. Yet all of their skills combined in one.
 
Rurumania

Rurumania

Rookie
Midaso240 said:
Nowhere is the serve/return dynamic more important than at Wimbledon and Alcaraz won. I believe over 5 sets, he has the advantage over Djokovic. They weren't exactly on level pegging today, Alcaraz had spent twice as long on court over the tournament
Click to expand...
Djokovic played bang average in that Wimbeldon final and it still took him choking on some big points to lose the match

In no world does Alcaraz have an advantage in Bo5 over Djokovic anywhere but maybe RG
 
xFedal

xFedal

Legend
Midaso240 said:
Nah, it only solidifies Alcaraz as the favourite for the USO for me. Come on, the winners were 42-19 to Alcaraz but he hit 50 unforced errors or something. He hasn't been in great form all week, and still came within a couple of points of winning
Click to expand...
Ur right that Carlos is favourite for USO but this is surely a satisfying win man, an epic night.
 
M

mahatma

Hall of Fame
AO13 said:
What a match. Good God. Out of words.

Carlos might actually become my 2nd favorite player of all time. The kid has balls of steel and has EVERYTHING. A perfect player, perfect mind, all skills. No Fed's arrogance, no Rafa's weird rituals, no Novak's anger issues. Yet all of their skills combined in one.
Click to expand...

But a lot of errors
 
TheNachoMan

TheNachoMan

Legend
AO13 said:
What a match. Good God. Out of words.

Carlos might actually become my 2nd favorite player of all time. The kid has balls of steel and has EVERYTHING. A perfect player, perfect mind, all skills. No Fed's arrogance, no Rafa's weird rituals, no Novak's anger issues. Yet all of their skills combined in one.
Click to expand...
Carlos seems quite arrogant to me. Not that I don’t like a bit of swagger in a player.
 
ScentOfDefeat

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
The good thing about being in Novak's current position is that he already has the Slam record, so now he can relax and go back to winning Masters 1000 events without that pressure of absolutely having to chase the Slam count. It's incredible that he has been able to return to this position and extend that record as well.
 
M

Midaso240

Legend
Rurumania said:
Djokovic played bang average in that Wimbeldon final and it still took him choking on some big points to lose the match

In no world does Alcaraz have an advantage in Bo5 over Djokovic anywhere but maybe RG
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Alcaraz didn't play great either, and remember this is a guy who had barely even played on grass before that Wimbledon and he still won. Nah, I'm not getting sucked into the recency bias that others are here. I still think Alcaraz wins the majority of the matches between them going forward, who knows how many more there will be
 
Rurumania

Rurumania

Rookie
Midaso240 said:
Alcaraz didn't play great either, and remember this is a guy who had barely even played on grass before that Wimbledon and he still won. Nah, I'm not getting sucked into the recency bias that others are here. I still think Alcaraz wins the majority of the matches between them going forward, who knows how many more there will be
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Recency bias is what everyone did after Wimbeldon final acting like Djokovic died

Alcaraz needs to manage his matches better in New York or he'll lose early or be done physically by the later rounds
 
The Guru

The Guru

Legend
Can we finally put to bed the winners and unforced errors have anything to do with quality idea after this one? Not only did Novak win with a way inferior ratio this was obviously a very good match and both guys were in the negatives and the winner was way in the negatives.
 
darthrafa

darthrafa

Hall of Fame
experience and consistency have to be accumulated
that said, it is probably the first time that i think carlos will have the upper hand with BO5 format at gs
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic played very well for the last 90 minutes and Carlos hung with him till the very end when he seemed to get arm cramps. They are both clearly the best two players in the world without much to separate them. But Carlos cramping in two out of their three matches this years is cause for concern as he also cramped in Miami in another tough match against Sinner.
 
K

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
The Guru said:
Can we finally put to bed the winners and unforced errors have anything to do with quality idea after this one? Not only did Novak win with a way inferior ratio this was obviously a very good match and both guys were in the negatives and the winner was way in the negatives.
Click to expand...
Forced errors against the likes of Alcaraz and Djokovic are very important stats. I can recall at least a dozen balls that Carlos and Djoko had absolutely zero hope of getting to but somehow got a racquet on anyways, which doesn’t show up in the “Winner” column but obviously would be a winner vs almost anyone else.
 
Bubcay

Bubcay

Legend
Midaso240 said:
Nah, it only solidifies Alcaraz as the favourite for the USO for me. Come on, the winners were 42-19 to Alcaraz but he hit 50 unforced errors or something. He hasn't been in great form all week, and still came within a couple of points of winning
Click to expand...
Unforced errors are not that "unforced", if you know what I mean. They reflect the pressure the player feels from the oposition, so you can't just isolate them as a data point...
 
norcal

norcal

Legend
Earth's Mightiest Possum!

Djoker looked donezo and he makes epic comeback. Incredible match!

I guess Djoker's a slight favorite for USO? They are so even.
 
The Guru

The Guru

Legend
Kralingen said:
Forced errors against the likes of Alcaraz and Djokovic are very important stats. I can recall at least a dozen balls that Carlos and Djoko had absolutely zero hope of getting to but somehow got a racquet on anyways, which doesn’t show up in the “Winner” column but obviously would be a winner vs almost anyone else.
Click to expand...
Or we can just accept that tennis statistics are nowhere near advanced enough to capture what happens on the court in any serious way and that looking at a stat sheet and trying to judge the quality of a match by it is completely impossible and a stupid thing to even try to do.
 
T

Torben

Semi-Pro
Midaso240 said:
He hasn't been in great form all week, and still came within a couple of points of winning
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All of his matches were so full of ups and downs it was hard to keep track.

He needs to be a little more consistent and not get himself into some of the situations he gets himself into. You have to give him full credit for getting out of these 15-40 service games and to break serve when absolutely needed but from game to game, he needs to stay more consistent. I don't know if it's a focus problem or he just can't decide on which shot to play.

We all say he is young and is still learning and that is very true, but it can be frustrating to see him make such hard work of some of his matches.
 
K

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
The Guru said:
Or we can just accept that tennis statistics are nowhere near advanced enough to capture what happens on the court in any serious way and that looking at a stat sheet and trying to judge the quality of a match by it is completely impossible and a stupid thing to even try to do.
Click to expand...
Eye test is all we can trust?
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
The Guru said:
Can we finally put to bed the winners and unforced errors have anything to do with quality idea after this one? Not only did Novak win with a way inferior ratio this was obviously a very good match and both guys were in the negatives and the winner was way in the negatives.
Click to expand...
Bro this match is just all recency bias because it went to 3rd set tiebreak and had some clutch MP in it. Trust me

Source: slept throught most of it
 
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