Note to Sinner etc: Tennis should be entertaining!

nolefam_2024 said:
Probably because Roger is not boring to me. Yes what makes them boring is as per our choice.

But nolefams don't find rafa as very entertaining. He played in typical clay courter fashion most of the times. Which is why I loved when he was forced to play on fast surfaces and adapted and then he was not boring.

You can watch USOpen 2011 semis and finals back to back and see how much the vertical game of Nadal slowed down the play. Same opponent, 1 day apart. But Fedkovic played on very fast rally pace. While Rafole were doing moonballs vs each other.
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This is what I find funny. Nole fans try to group him with Fed, but stylistically, especially earlier in his career, he was more like Rafa. Although he's not truly like either of them.

In the last few years, perhaps since 2021, he plays more attacking tennis, but that's not his natural style.
 
Aabye5 said:
This is what I find funny. Nole fans try to group him with Fed, but stylistically, especially earlier in his career, he was more like Rafa. Although he's not truly like either of them.

In the last few years, perhaps since 2021, he plays more attacking tennis, but that's not his natural style.
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How early are we talking. Because to beat grinders like Rafa and Andy Murray Nole did become boss grinder post 2008. But before 2008 and after 2018 he was not playing that way.

It's like every era defines what is best for you. Now sinneraz have so much offense that to counter that everyone has to play offense , even pushbots like medvedev and adm.

Now coming to Djokovic , he is nowhere close to becoming a Federer type aggressive guy but he is far more aggressive when facing guys like fed than someone like Murray and Nadal.

You can see rally aggression. Murray and Nadal are identical very low. Djokovic is low but it's similar to delpo level.

Fed understands this and he said in 2012 that Nole is a bit like me and Andy and Rafa are a little more defensive. There is no problem with defense if you are ADM or Radwanska but these two Nadal and Andy were built like tanks.
 
Also the surfaces did get abnormally slow around 2009 peaking slowness at ao 12 where rafole played 6 hrs match.

While post 2019 surfaces are getting a bit faster. Do you see how difficult it is to break through when Rafa and Andy just didn't want to miss on slower surface?
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Also the surfaces did get abnormally slow around 2009 peaking slowness at ao 12 where rafole played 6 hrs match.

While post 2019 surfaces are getting a bit faster. Do you see how difficult it is to break through when Rafa and Andy just didn't want to miss on slower surface?
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Rafa and Andy are probably the least alike. Yes, they're both defensive, but not in the same way. That's also why they were practically opposites in terms of their preferred surfaces.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Big personalities of the McEnroe and Connors variety were entertaining, but I was there to know it was their astonishing games which everyone wanted to see above all else. Strip their games from them and what do you have? Certainly not the ingrdients which made both crucial to the Tennis Boom.



Wrong. Sampras was great for tennis, not only for being the leader of the next generation of Amercian male players after McEnroe & Connors were past their majors-winning capabilities, but his game-changing, fantastic talent (following a similar effect from Becker and Edberg), which I recall crowds cheering for when he was dismantling / outplaying opponents. This was evident when he served as a super-talented contrast to dull baseliners such as Agassi, et al. Slowing down the courts was more about pumping up underachievers such as Agassi, who was marketed as great long before he won a single major, and with Sampras on the scene as the player of his generation, the tennis PTB had to do something in order to give the pigeon-toed Agassi a chance.
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Sure. Whatever. But no. Sampras was a great, but boring player that nobody outside tennis really thought of or talked about. I hated watching him and other big servers on fast courts back then. A five minute highlight reel, yes please. But a whole match of aces, botched returns an three ball rallies? No thanks. Dark times.
 
Olli Jokinen said:
Sure. Whatever. But no. Sampras was a great, but boring player that nobody outside tennis really thought of or talked about. I hated watching him and other big servers on fast courts back then. A five minute highlight reel, yes please. But a whole match of aces, botched returns an three ball rallies? No thanks. Dark times.
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Wrong again. Sampras' talent and dominance was one of the highlights of sports in general, and his entertaining factor was his game. He did not need flashy clothes, wigs, and dating washed up entertainers in order to be known outside of the sport. ...and no one wants to see two idiots engage in neverending rallies just waiting for the other fool to make a mistake, all while cementing their feet at the baseline (the story of most 21st century men's tennis).
 
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Wrong again. Sampras' talent and dominance was one of the highlights of sports in general, and his entertaining factor was his game. He did not need flashy clothes, wigs, and dating washed up entertainers in order to be known outside of the sport. ...and no one wants to see two idiots engage in neverending rallies just waiting for the other fool to make a mistake, all while cementing their feet at the baseline (the story of most 21st century men's tennis).
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You really, really, really like Sampras, I get it.
 
Olli Jokinen said:
Sure. Whatever. But no. Sampras was a great, but boring player that nobody outside tennis really thought of or talked about. I hated watching him and other big servers on fast courts back then. A five minute highlight reel, yes please. But a whole match of aces, botched returns an three ball rallies? No thanks. Dark times.
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I never understood why some folks prefer big serve low rally tennis and scoff at long rally tennis. Give me the Djokovic-Nadal long rally tennis any day of the week
 
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Mr.Lob said:
What are you suggesting Sinner do to be more "entertaining"? Whatever he does, or doesn't do, works for him. Just like over the top celebrating worked for Nadal, and being a jerk worked for McEnroe and Serena.
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Unfortunately, there is nothing Sinner can do at this point.
The clostebol issue was a step in the wrong direction, if he wanted to make himself more interesting.
 
He's just trying to win matches. Sinner doesn't have any wiggle room to care if he's entertaining the gasbags on TTW.
 
vive le beau jeu ! said:
and in order to produce more entertaining tennis, should he bounce the ball 50+ times or readjust his underwear before serving? :unsure:
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I think if Sinner were to get involved in some sort of scandal, that would spice things up a bit.

I wonder what sort of thing he could do to get people talking?
 
Spencer Gore said:
Tennis is an entertainment as well as a sport. If there are too few personalities the entertainment value is far less and people will switch off.

When I first started going to Wimbledon you had a brilliant variety of personalities with a fascinating variety of playing styles: Nastase, Newcombe, Connors, Ashe, Rosewall, Gerulaitis, Borg, Tanner and then of course came McEnroe. Every one different. Every one their own distinct personality. And their personality was reflected in how they played the game. When they played, each match was its own little soap opera as well as a sporting contest. Entertainment!

Now, we not only have players who all play the same but most seem to have the same lack of personality. Sinner is the worst of the lot. A bland automaton blasting the ball from the baseline. Thank goodness for Alcaraz. He has personality. Life. That's why the public have reacted to him. But he can't do it alone. No wonder Netflix cancelled that tennis show. The players were even more boring off the court than they were on it!

The players need to realise they are in an entertainment. The tennis authorities need to realise that people won't want to watch five hours of baseline rallies between bland, robotic players.
Start entertaining the public or tennis will die!
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I find Sinner very entertaining

I also happen to like baseline rallies

I don't find forecourt game more engaging than rallies - and I certainly don't want to watch the 1-3 stroke points of big servers

I don't need to see emotional reactions from players - fine either way

I like that with Sinner I can relax and watch the tennis and not worry about the extracurricular unpleasantness you get with Kyrgios or sometimes Medvedev. If I want a soap opera, I'll watch soap operas on TV - they're better at it anyway than the weak-a** version that tennis players can give.

Is Kyrgios actually some kind of bad boy thug? Only in the rarefied arena of tennis courts. Anywhere else it would just look pathetic. Why do I want to watch pathetic imitations of fake thuggery? Back to the tennis, please.
 
Frankly, I'm happy for the arrival of poly strings

I like the more full-body athleticism of players slugging it out and not a couple of guys being careful not to hit it too hard or it will go out

Watching a lot of the old footage (even from the 80s) and their movements are so much daintier (often even look silly) and they barely resemble high-level athletes at all
 
Oldbaby said:
Frankly, I'm happy for the arrival of poly strings

I like the more full-body athleticism of players slugging it out and not a couple of guys being careful not to hit it too hard or it will go out

Watching a lot of the old footage (even from the 80s) and their movements are so much daintier (often even look silly) and they barely resemble high-level athletes at all
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Exactly.
 
Olli Jokinen said:
You're pretty much in denial of what people actually want to see on a tennis court. Sentimentality is often forgetfulness. That period sucked.
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Strange. I liked watching Sampras do his thing at Wimbledon. It was a nice contrast with the clay season long rally / point construction style of play. And hardcourt in the 80's and 90's was always a great battle between the contrasting styles of net play (McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Sampras) and baseline (Connors, Borg, Lendl, Agassi, Courier).

The contrast, variety and balance was fantastic.

Women's tennis in these era was fantastic as well. It wasn't just ball bashing. There was so much art to it. I REALLY enjoyed watching players like Evert and Hingis for example.
 
tennis3 said:
Strange. I liked watching Sampras do his thing at Wimbledon. It was a nice contrast with the clay season long rally / point construction style of play. And hardcourt in the 80's and 90's was always a great battle between the contrasting styles of net play (McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Sampras) and baseline (Connors, Borg, Lendl, Agassi, Courier).

The contrast, variety and balance was fantastic.

Women's tennis in these era was fantastic as well. It wasn't just ball bashing. There was so much art to it. I REALLY enjoyed watching players like Evert and Hingis for example.
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I'm a great fan of the '80s and early '90s. Best period ever. Period. But when power tennis and S/V merged later on, it became the dullest thing ever.
 
Spencer Gore said:
The players need to realise they are in an entertainment.
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No, they don't. They need to focus on playing.
Spencer Gore said:
The tennis authorities need to realise that people won't want to watch five hours of anything
Start entertaining the public or tennis will die!
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True and that's why the body around the play needs to make it more entertaining. For starters, having announcers that are actively exuberant as they're calling the play action would help. It would help casual viewers understand exactly what is really going on during play (and many tt'ers here...which is sorely needed).

Good marketing is capturing the hard work and intensity of players despite their limitations to express it....like a good photographer can bring out whomever they're photographing.
 
Olli Jokinen said:
I'm a great fan of the '80s and early '90s. Best period ever. Period. But when power tennis and S/V merged later on, it became the dullest thing ever.
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Who exactly did you have in mind here?

To me, the same players winning (basically) the exact same way year round is pretty dull and boring.

That said, McDonald's is popular for a reason. And judging from the comments on this site, most people do like the same players winning the exact same way over and over all year long.
 
tennis3 said:
Who exactly did you have in mind here?

To me, the same players winning (basically) the exact same way year round is pretty dull and boring.

That said, McDonald's is popular for a reason. And judging from the comments on this site, most people do like the same players winning the exact same way over and over all year long.
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'80s and early '90s had the best palyers and the best variety. Later on, the horrible fast surface matches with Sampras, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Stich, Becker, Forget etc. was the thing that made me lose interest in watching tennis. On the other hand, I've enjoyed watching the new generation of tennis with Federer, Nadal, Djokovic (not so much), Stan, Murray a lot – with some of the lost gen thrown in here and there. I've enjoyed it mainly due to the exciting rallies and skillful play.

I do admit that tennis right now probably needs more top guys than just Alcaraz and Sinner, but I'd rather watch them than a Sampras-Rusedski serve fest on carpet anytime. It's not that I don't see that Sampras was great, but mostly his tennis was not enjoyable, only in highlights. An entire match of those two, maybe three balls over the net and done was as exiting as watching something repetitive like bowling or one of those American sports where there are more breaks than actual effective play.
 
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THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Wrong again. Sampras' talent and dominance was one of the highlights of sports in general, and his entertaining factor was his game. He did not need flashy clothes, wigs, and dating washed up entertainers in order to be known outside of the sport. ...and no one wants to see two idiots engage in neverending rallies just waiting for the other fool to make a mistake, all while cementing their feet at the baseline (the story of most 21st century men's tennis).
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That may make sense to you individually, but Sampras (and Rusedski, Scud, Goran) were terrible for ratings and were the reason that the tour decided courts needed to be slower
 
Olli Jokinen said:
'80s and early '90s had the best palyers and the best variety. Later on, the horrible fast surface matches with Sampras, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Stich, Becker, Forget etc. was the thing that made me lose interest in watching tennis. On the other hand, I've enjoyed watching the new generation of tennis with Federer, Nadal, Djokovic (not so much), Stan, Murray a lot – with some of the lost gen thrown in here and there. I've enjoyed it mainly due to the exciting rallies and skillful play.

I do admit that tennis right now probably needs more top guys than just Alcaraz and Sinner, but I'd rather watch them than a Sampras-Rusedski serve fest on carpet anytime. It's not that I don't see that Sampras was great, but mostly his tennis was not enjoyable, only in highlights. An entire match of those two, maybe three balls over the net and done was as exiting as watching something repetitive like bowling or one of those American sports where there are more breaks than actual effective play.
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But they didn't play on fast (or the same speed / bounce) surfaces every tournament. The bombers had their time on fast grass and carpet. But they didn't dominate outdoor hard (and certainly not clay).

That's the fatal flaw today. No contrasting styles. And why would there be. The exact same game is played on all surfaces now. To me, that's boring. But like I said above, there's a reason why McDonalds is popular. You get the exact same product every time and know exactly what to expect. This mentality has won out in nearly everything. It's just not for me I guess. Which is fine, because I don't really want to watch tennis every week anyway. So the times I do, I don't mind having a Big Mac and Fries I guess.
 
Rosstour said:
That may make sense to you individually, but Sampras (and Rusedski, Scud, Goran) were terrible for ratings and were the reason that the tour decided courts needed to be slower
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Sampras was great but he was a bore. It's a big reason why fans gravitated towards Agassi (and the sponsors as well) despite him being a worse player. Being entertaining or at least having an entertaining style of play like in Federer's case counts for something. A player like Sinner will never be more popular than Alcaraz outside of Italy, he just doesn't bring enough eyeballs to the screen IMO.
 
Spencer Gore said:
Start entertaining the public or tennis will die!
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Sinner's job is to win. Period. He is not there to entertain you. Knowledgeable tennis fans are hugely entertained by his ball-striking skills.
To paraphrase your favourite Kamala perhaps you are looking for the clown Kyrgios rally down the street.
He is an introvert so best to leave your Sinner entertainment fantasies behind. It is not happening.
 
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Olli Jokinen said:
'80s and early '90s had the best palyers and the best variety.
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Tennis is one of the only sports that even has the option / opportunity to play the game on different surfaces / indoor-outdoor / different balls. In other words, if they want, they can create variety and contrasting styles. And even though, when asked, it's what the fans say they want. In reality, I think most like "McDonalds". It's just the mentality of the times.

Think about other sports like American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey and Soccer. For the most part, all the teams have to play the same way because the game has to be the same week in and week out. But tennis (and golf) is different. They can create a lot of variety if they want. But they don't. The fans really don't want it.

And don't get me started on how great women's tennis was "pre ball bashing" compared to what they do today. Today's women's tennis is truly unwatchable.
 
It's like you guys think ppl should hit softer not harder and give up easy points by rushing the net, for the sake of some purity thing
 
Even Patrick is now talking about Sinner is most similar to Agassi. From 21:30 onwards

Sinner's base stats are very similar to Andre among all the players, both are net averse, both are slice averse.
 
Rosstour said:
They did the best they could to win points under the conditions of the day

Same as today's players
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That's the point?

In other words, nobody is asking for the players to change their style of play "for the sake of purity" (I don't know where you came up with that).

But some people might want to see contrasting conditions. Maybe even equipment restrictions (like in Baseball no aluminum bats)

I can tell by your tone you think the very idea of this is "crazy". And because I think you speak for the majority, it will never happen.

And yes, I am aware that what I'm asking for will never happen. Not in tennis. Not in any other sport. Which by the way, I don't really mind. I'm too old to be a "fan" anyway. The game should suit the tastes of the youth.
 
tennis3 said:
That's the point?

In other words, nobody is asking for the players to change their style of play "for the sake of purity" (I don't know where you came up with that).

But some people might want to see contrasting conditions. Maybe even equipment restrictions (like in Baseball no aluminum bats)

I can tell by your tone you think the very idea of this is "crazy". And because I think you speak for the majority, it will never happen.

And yes, I am aware that what I'm asking for will never happen. Not in tennis. Not in any other sport. Which by the way, I don't really mind. I'm too old to be a "fan" anyway. The game should suit the tastes of the youth.
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I would love an expanded grass court season dominated by Mecir and Tomic and Dustin Brown but I don't make the rules
 
tennis3 said:
Tennis is one of the only sports that even has the option / opportunity to play the game on different surfaces / indoor-outdoor / different balls. In other words, if they want, they can create variety and contrasting styles. And even though, when asked, it's what the fans say they want. In reality, I think most like "McDonalds". It's just the mentality of the times.

Think about other sports like American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey and Soccer. For the most part, all the teams have to play the same way because the game has to be the same week in and week out. But tennis (and golf) is different. They can create a lot of variety if they want. But they don't. The fans really don't want it.

And don't get me started on how great women's tennis was "pre ball bashing" compared to what they do today. Today's women's tennis is truly unwatchable.
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I just think the Sampras era sucked – which most tennis viewers back then apparently agree with me on. Especially the fast court menu tasted awful.

I present to you: Sampras-Rusedski US Open 2002. Just watch the first game. It's awful tennis! Why would anyone want to watch 2.5 hours of this garbage? There's NOTHING entertaining about this.
 
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