movdqa
Talk Tennis Guru
Mister G wrote:
>> Perhaps not on a daily basis but they do require considerably more
>> mainteance than a Mac does.
> Once again, dont exaggerate.
"Some six years later, soon after the advent of OS X, computer security
expert Winn Schwartau created a widely publicized tool geared to
helping companies in any industry measure the TCO of Macs versus
Windows PCs. Schwartau emphasizes that results from the tool can vary
considerably from one business to the next. But at his own small
enterprisethen known as Interpact and now dubbed The Security
Awareness Companythree-year TCO turned out to be twice as high for
Windows than Mac.
"Whether or not they've undertaken formal TCO or ROI studies, many
customers today claim to be attaining substantial economic advantages
from using Mac OS, either instead of or in conjunction with other
OSes.
"In OS X, Apple has innovated with an underlying Unix kernel for better
security and less costly management on large networks. But Mac OS
continues to run only on Apple's own well-engineered PCs, attested to
by many enterprises and other business as more crash-resistant,
reliable and long-lasting than other PC hardware. Furthermore, Mac OS
continues to require fewer patches than Windows, for easier and less
pricey maintenance.
CIO Magazine
The professional know that Macs require less maintenance. It appears that
some of the amateurs are otherwise uneducated.
>> My wife used to call me during the day todeal with Windows issues and
>> I got tired of the calls so I told her to ask the kids for help. They
>> got tired of the calls so I bought her a PowerMac G5. End of calls and
>> the kids stopped complaining about having to do tech support.
> My point exactly... Going back to Mac is for "dumb" users (I dont mean
> that as an insult)
Most users fall into this category which is why the Mac has been growing
marketshare.
>> How do you think people get to the point where they can drop $20K for
>> hardware or $60K for a car? They relentlessly work on becoming more
>> efficient in many aspects of their lives.
> Efficient isnt quite the word you are looking for here...
Sure it is. I'd suggest reading The Millionaire Next Door.
>> You are now asserting that the combination of (a) and (b) represent
>> the average user. Perhaps (a) does but I don't see how (b) does. Which
>> makes your claim that we (or actually you) were talking about the
>> average user specious.
> Isn't that what I just said?
You admit that you're making a false claim?
>> I bought it for our son who started full-time college this fall. Our
>> daughter took it as she likes the platform. His HP X2 4400 died (only
>> 18 months old) with a power supply problem which I have yet to fix so
>> I recently got him a Dell Vostro desktop. I wanted to buy a few more
>> MacBook Pros but Penryn is just around the corner and I'd rather wait
>> for that platform. The Penryn chip have SSE4 support and I'd like to
>> play around with those new machine instructions.
> You have to "fix" this so - called PSU problem... Talk about world-class engineering.
HP had a blowout earnings report yesterday afternoon. They had huge
profit increases in notebooks and very nice profit increases in
desktops. I have a friend that works there and he says that management
continues to chop headcount and that it's quite demoralizing. Of course
their share price increases probably assuage the heavy cost-cutting in
the company.
I won't buy from HP anymore given the experiences with my last two systems
from them. They also don't provide installation media. They expect you to
create backup DVDs or CD which can take a few hours. If you lose OS files
you have to do a full restore unless you have a backup system in place that
does incremental restore. Dell gives you the installation CDs so that you
can do a Windows Repair installation if need be.
>> My kids are smart enough to know good hardware when they see it.
> I'm sure every parent would say the same.
I'm sure that your wrong. But for reasons mathematical.
>> Strawman. Please post where anyone has that attitide.
> Go back and read your posts. If it doesnt smell like you have a
> superior attitude, well... *wipes something off your nose*
It's your assertion and the burden of proof rests upon you to
demonstrate your assertions. Of course you're chaning your argument
now. In any case it's an ad hominem.
>> I was clearly talking about maintenance time. The rest of my anecdotes
>> were about the maintenance time for cars, houses, etc. How you came up
>> with me thinking that my paragraph was about CPU and system
>> performance is a mystery to me.
> Yes, and because YOU need to maintain your PC 48 hours a week, its
> costing you money, I know, we heard it before.
I'm glad to see you admit that you were wrong.
>> I'm an investor in Apple and I do keep an eye on earnings and the
>> contributions from their various product lines. I do some engineering
>> on the Mac OSX platform too and so I'm more than a casual observor of
>> the company. I also keep up with chip architecture.
> Once again. I'm qualified in... Still doesn't explain why you are way
> too biased. At least admit it. You remind me of pompous sound art
> glitch music freaks.
I'm not biased. If you claim that I am, the burden of proof is upon you
to prove it. Again, you're just using ad hominem arguments as you can't
argue the facts.
Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and
most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but
can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character
flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This
tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative
facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with
the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. This
tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool among politicians
who are attempting to influence the voter base in their favor through
an appeal to emotion rather than by logical means, especially when
their own position is logically weaker than their opponent's.
(Wikipedia entry on Ad Hominem)
> More useless banter that doesnt contribute whatsoever except for you
> to make YOURSELF look more credible. Sorry but no matter what you
> know, biased opinons are just that - biased opinions. Nonetheless,
> some of the things you have said carry weight and are true.
I'm not biased. If you claim that I am, the burden of proof is upon you
to prove it. Again, you're just using ad hominem arguments as you can't
argue the facts.
> You seem to think that you know a lot about computers and the world
> but your posts belie that.
An observation.
>> One of the downsides to machines from HP is that they don't give you
>> any of the installation disks unlike Dell. Dell provides OEM disks so
>> that you can do a repair install of Windows if you have some minor OS
>> damage. HP expects you to make your own image backups. This requires a
>> few writable DVDs or a huge number of writable CDs and a few hours of
>> your time.
>> If you need to run Windows programs, you can just get a copy of
>> Windows ($98 at my local store) and run it either using Boot Camp or
>> as a virtual machine.
>> So... you're telling the others that if you need to run Windows, you
>> can get a copy for a Mac, but not for HP machines. Hmm Like I said, if
>> you dont know how to backup your stuff in case of any
>> hardware/software failure.. well..
If you need to run Windows on a Mac, you can simply purchase a copy. You
don't need to purchase Windows for HP desktops because they come with
Windows and include the license.
If I lose an OS file, I can run a quick Windows repair installation. That
saves me from having to do a full restore and then an incremental restore.
>> HP also loads their machines with crapware that can take hours to remove.
> This is my favourite quote. Hours to remove. Maybe days? You did say
> you were into computers since the 70s no? Interesting how I managed to
> clean up the missus HP laptop in roughly 6minutes, with 2 reboots.
There were roughly 100 programs that came with my HP desktops. Perhaps
they've made it easier to remove the crapware that comes preloaded today.
My Dell system didn't have the crapware on it to begin with.
>> I have 6 systems from Dell. The oldest is a laptop which is about 7
>> years old. It still works fine. I have three HP systems - two desktops
>> and one laptop. The laptop is over four years old and works fine. One
>> of the desktops that's about 18 months old has a bad power supply and
>> is out of service. The other desktop is about 15 months old and is
>> getting noisy. These were both $1,000+ systems.
> Since you're so knowledgable and since you dont seem mind paying for
> quality, you should build your own machines. If you REALLY knew what
> quality was, you would try your best to avoid pre-built systems. Im
> sure you already know WHY.
I'm a software engineer and would much rather put my time and effort
into building software. I build the only 64-bit release versions of
Windows Firefox and Thunderbird in the world and am pretty happy at
being best in the world for just that.
>> Perhaps not on a daily basis but they do require considerably more
>> mainteance than a Mac does.
> Once again, dont exaggerate.
"Some six years later, soon after the advent of OS X, computer security
expert Winn Schwartau created a widely publicized tool geared to
helping companies in any industry measure the TCO of Macs versus
Windows PCs. Schwartau emphasizes that results from the tool can vary
considerably from one business to the next. But at his own small
enterprisethen known as Interpact and now dubbed The Security
Awareness Companythree-year TCO turned out to be twice as high for
Windows than Mac.
"Whether or not they've undertaken formal TCO or ROI studies, many
customers today claim to be attaining substantial economic advantages
from using Mac OS, either instead of or in conjunction with other
OSes.
"In OS X, Apple has innovated with an underlying Unix kernel for better
security and less costly management on large networks. But Mac OS
continues to run only on Apple's own well-engineered PCs, attested to
by many enterprises and other business as more crash-resistant,
reliable and long-lasting than other PC hardware. Furthermore, Mac OS
continues to require fewer patches than Windows, for easier and less
pricey maintenance.
CIO Magazine
The professional know that Macs require less maintenance. It appears that
some of the amateurs are otherwise uneducated.
>> My wife used to call me during the day todeal with Windows issues and
>> I got tired of the calls so I told her to ask the kids for help. They
>> got tired of the calls so I bought her a PowerMac G5. End of calls and
>> the kids stopped complaining about having to do tech support.
> My point exactly... Going back to Mac is for "dumb" users (I dont mean
> that as an insult)
Most users fall into this category which is why the Mac has been growing
marketshare.
>> How do you think people get to the point where they can drop $20K for
>> hardware or $60K for a car? They relentlessly work on becoming more
>> efficient in many aspects of their lives.
> Efficient isnt quite the word you are looking for here...
Sure it is. I'd suggest reading The Millionaire Next Door.
>> You are now asserting that the combination of (a) and (b) represent
>> the average user. Perhaps (a) does but I don't see how (b) does. Which
>> makes your claim that we (or actually you) were talking about the
>> average user specious.
> Isn't that what I just said?
You admit that you're making a false claim?
>> I bought it for our son who started full-time college this fall. Our
>> daughter took it as she likes the platform. His HP X2 4400 died (only
>> 18 months old) with a power supply problem which I have yet to fix so
>> I recently got him a Dell Vostro desktop. I wanted to buy a few more
>> MacBook Pros but Penryn is just around the corner and I'd rather wait
>> for that platform. The Penryn chip have SSE4 support and I'd like to
>> play around with those new machine instructions.
> You have to "fix" this so - called PSU problem... Talk about world-class engineering.
HP had a blowout earnings report yesterday afternoon. They had huge
profit increases in notebooks and very nice profit increases in
desktops. I have a friend that works there and he says that management
continues to chop headcount and that it's quite demoralizing. Of course
their share price increases probably assuage the heavy cost-cutting in
the company.
I won't buy from HP anymore given the experiences with my last two systems
from them. They also don't provide installation media. They expect you to
create backup DVDs or CD which can take a few hours. If you lose OS files
you have to do a full restore unless you have a backup system in place that
does incremental restore. Dell gives you the installation CDs so that you
can do a Windows Repair installation if need be.
>> My kids are smart enough to know good hardware when they see it.
> I'm sure every parent would say the same.
I'm sure that your wrong. But for reasons mathematical.
>> Strawman. Please post where anyone has that attitide.
> Go back and read your posts. If it doesnt smell like you have a
> superior attitude, well... *wipes something off your nose*
It's your assertion and the burden of proof rests upon you to
demonstrate your assertions. Of course you're chaning your argument
now. In any case it's an ad hominem.
>> I was clearly talking about maintenance time. The rest of my anecdotes
>> were about the maintenance time for cars, houses, etc. How you came up
>> with me thinking that my paragraph was about CPU and system
>> performance is a mystery to me.
> Yes, and because YOU need to maintain your PC 48 hours a week, its
> costing you money, I know, we heard it before.
I'm glad to see you admit that you were wrong.
>> I'm an investor in Apple and I do keep an eye on earnings and the
>> contributions from their various product lines. I do some engineering
>> on the Mac OSX platform too and so I'm more than a casual observor of
>> the company. I also keep up with chip architecture.
> Once again. I'm qualified in... Still doesn't explain why you are way
> too biased. At least admit it. You remind me of pompous sound art
> glitch music freaks.
I'm not biased. If you claim that I am, the burden of proof is upon you
to prove it. Again, you're just using ad hominem arguments as you can't
argue the facts.
Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and
most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but
can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character
flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This
tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative
facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with
the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. This
tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool among politicians
who are attempting to influence the voter base in their favor through
an appeal to emotion rather than by logical means, especially when
their own position is logically weaker than their opponent's.
(Wikipedia entry on Ad Hominem)
> More useless banter that doesnt contribute whatsoever except for you
> to make YOURSELF look more credible. Sorry but no matter what you
> know, biased opinons are just that - biased opinions. Nonetheless,
> some of the things you have said carry weight and are true.
I'm not biased. If you claim that I am, the burden of proof is upon you
to prove it. Again, you're just using ad hominem arguments as you can't
argue the facts.
> You seem to think that you know a lot about computers and the world
> but your posts belie that.
An observation.
>> One of the downsides to machines from HP is that they don't give you
>> any of the installation disks unlike Dell. Dell provides OEM disks so
>> that you can do a repair install of Windows if you have some minor OS
>> damage. HP expects you to make your own image backups. This requires a
>> few writable DVDs or a huge number of writable CDs and a few hours of
>> your time.
>> If you need to run Windows programs, you can just get a copy of
>> Windows ($98 at my local store) and run it either using Boot Camp or
>> as a virtual machine.
>> So... you're telling the others that if you need to run Windows, you
>> can get a copy for a Mac, but not for HP machines. Hmm Like I said, if
>> you dont know how to backup your stuff in case of any
>> hardware/software failure.. well..
If you need to run Windows on a Mac, you can simply purchase a copy. You
don't need to purchase Windows for HP desktops because they come with
Windows and include the license.
If I lose an OS file, I can run a quick Windows repair installation. That
saves me from having to do a full restore and then an incremental restore.
>> HP also loads their machines with crapware that can take hours to remove.
> This is my favourite quote. Hours to remove. Maybe days? You did say
> you were into computers since the 70s no? Interesting how I managed to
> clean up the missus HP laptop in roughly 6minutes, with 2 reboots.
There were roughly 100 programs that came with my HP desktops. Perhaps
they've made it easier to remove the crapware that comes preloaded today.
My Dell system didn't have the crapware on it to begin with.
>> I have 6 systems from Dell. The oldest is a laptop which is about 7
>> years old. It still works fine. I have three HP systems - two desktops
>> and one laptop. The laptop is over four years old and works fine. One
>> of the desktops that's about 18 months old has a bad power supply and
>> is out of service. The other desktop is about 15 months old and is
>> getting noisy. These were both $1,000+ systems.
> Since you're so knowledgable and since you dont seem mind paying for
> quality, you should build your own machines. If you REALLY knew what
> quality was, you would try your best to avoid pre-built systems. Im
> sure you already know WHY.
I'm a software engineer and would much rather put my time and effort
into building software. I build the only 64-bit release versions of
Windows Firefox and Thunderbird in the world and am pretty happy at
being best in the world for just that.
