Nothing wrong with Mouratoglou coaching tips but ...

HTTP404

New User
I keep seeing his short video coaching tips on social media but realise he moves like a Thunderbird puppet when he plays, he's obsessed with the dominant eye and his annoying catch-phrase is "yessssssss".

So I am wondering at the tour level is he really the Messiah? Or the accidental finger snot that won't shake?
Anyway, seems like Holger Rune found something he didn't like.
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Coach's job is to coach. Just like a surgeon job is to fix a patient. I prefer the most skilled surgeon to operate on me. I don't care if he talks with stutters or walks like Forrest Gump. If you want your teachers or coaches to be perfectly pleasant, you are just missing too many learning opportunities and really lowering your own ceiling.

All great coaches had good players move on to a different coach.

PM may very not be good fit for a lot of players. But I wouldn't judge him based on the things you listed.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Since his association with PM, Holger Rune has 2 Master 1000 wins over Novak D. Even if PM was not a perfect fit for Rune, he (Holger) likely derived benefit from the association.

Patrick M appears to have provided some outstanding insight for many of the high level juniors and pros that he’s coached. It certainly didn’t have a detrimental effect on Serena, Marcos B and some of the other pros he’s worked with.

I don’t much care for his over-emphasis on the role of the wrist or his other technical explanations. He may or may not be placing too much importance on eye dominance. But despite these shortcomings, he has a great coaching eye and is still able to get his insights across to many of his talented students.
 
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5263

G.O.A.T.
I keep seeing his short video coaching tips on social media but realise he moves like a Thunderbird puppet when he plays, he's obsessed with the dominant eye and his annoying catch-phrase is "yessssssss".

So I am wondering at the tour level is he really the Messiah? Or the accidental finger snot that won't shake?
Anyway, seems like Holger Rune found something he didn't like.
I think PM is extremely misleading in his online free instruction.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
Coaching videos are great. Love the enthusiasm.
Only dark cloud is getting involved with clients. Unprofessional coaching conduct.

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ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I think he has some great short videos and has been a proven coach at least. I think now as an academy owner though you see a little more Mont Academy "method" type promo things that are really just useful to differentiate themselves from other academies and coaching. So odd focus nuance focus points that a small percentage of players might be able to utilize, but nothing terribly wrong.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
Seems like they are both adults ?

Are you fine with a college professor dating his adult student? No. That is highly problematic and unethical. Which is why most university policies strictly prohibit this.
This is a somewhat similar scenario. Granted, it is not quite clear with whom the power imbalance lies in this particular case. But it is still inappropriate.
Any professional will tell you that they follow the general code of not getting involved with their clients. It is sleazy and unethical.
 
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Dragy

Legend
Are you fine with a college professor dating his adult student? No. That is highly problematic and unethical. Which is why most university policies strictly prohibit this.
This is a somewhat similar scenario. Granted, it is not quite clear with whom the power imbalance lies in this particular case. But it is still inappropriate.
Any professional will tell you that they follow the general code of not getting involved with their clients. It is sleazy and unethical.
Cmon man. Professor is evaluating his students, that’s why it’s unethical (adult case).

Some players and coaches are married couples. Not sure if it’s best for their professional success, but… definitely not worse than parents’ coaching!
 

Happi

Hall of Fame
Are you fine with a college professor dating his adult student? No. That is highly problematic and unethical. Which is why most university policies strictly prohibit this.
This is a somewhat similar scenario. Granted, it is not quite clear with whom the power imbalance lies in this particular case. But it is still inappropriate.
Any professional will tell you that they follow the general code of not getting involved with their clients. It is sleazy and unethical.
if love can find its way, and if the persons involved are adults, its all fine for me.
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Are you fine with a college professor dating his adult student? No. That is highly problematic and unethical. Which is why most university policies strictly prohibit this.
This is a somewhat similar scenario. Granted, it is not quite clear with whom the power imbalance lies in this particular case. But it is still inappropriate.
Any professional will tell you that they follow the general code of not getting involved with their clients. It is sleazy and unethical.
College professors control students grades and future. Pro tennis players can fire their coaches whenever they like for whatever reasons.
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
It's hard to quantify the different things that can help to build somebody's reputation as a "successful coach". It might be about building a player's understanding of X's and O's on the court - what to do and when to do it. It might be about promoting a physical makeover, change of diet, and/or embracing new training techniques for a player to survive long, grueling matches. And some of that success might be derived from the coach's ability to coax some players into a more focused and confident mindset. Even if the coach is full of it (dare I say a "confidence man"?), he or she might have a magic touch with cooking up greater confidence among clients on match day.

I've only caught a few snippets of PM's coaching ideas, but he gives me the impression that he's a bit of a tennis whisperer. He seems to work toward a mental calmness and focus in his players. Decent coaches generally seem to have a terrific way of communicating in simple terms, "You can do this and here's how." Even if he's not an all-time master technician, he seems to have a green thumb in terms of cultivating belief in the players that work with him. Maybe it's the accent... :cool:

Are you fine with a college professor dating his adult student? No. That is highly problematic and unethical. Which is why most university policies strictly prohibit this.
This is a somewhat similar scenario. Granted, it is not quite clear with whom the power imbalance lies in this particular case. But it is still inappropriate.
Any professional will tell you that they follow the general code of not getting involved with their clients. It is sleazy and unethical.
Agree with your general outlook. I do think that Serena and Patrick are a bit of a different sort of case - they were both established grown-ups ($$$!) when they got together and I doubt that either one had so much power or leverage over the other that there was potential for abuse, etc.

But when let's say a young lady who is a relative newcomer to the tour hits the road with a coach, I think that's where there's plenty of potential for unprofessional conduct to happen. The player in that case is much more at the mercy of the coach.
 

Roforot

Hall of Fame
Serena has the power in that relationship. It’s unprofessional though. A relationship complicates the tennis goals.
I do like how he says professor”
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Serena has the power in that relationship. It’s unprofessional though. A relationship complicates the tennis goals.
I do like how he says professor”

Serena is a submissive and needs a Daddy figure

That's why she was adrift until Patrick came along and then went total beastmode until he got her pregnant
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
It's hard to quantify the different things that can help to build somebody's reputation as a "successful coach". It might be about building a player's understanding of X's and O's on the court - what to do and when to do it. It might be about promoting a physical makeover, change of diet, and/or embracing new training techniques for a player to survive long, grueling matches. And some of that success might be derived from the coach's ability to coax some players into a more focused and confident mindset. Even if the coach is full of it (dare I say a "confidence man"?), he or she might have a magic touch with cooking up greater confidence among clients on match day.

I've only caught a few snippets of PM's coaching ideas, but he gives me the impression that he's a bit of a tennis whisperer. He seems to work toward a mental calmness and focus in his players. Decent coaches generally seem to have a terrific way of communicating in simple terms, "You can do this and here's how." Even if he's not an all-time master technician, he seems to have a green thumb in terms of cultivating belief in the players that work with him. Maybe it's the accent... :cool:


Agree with your general outlook. I do think that Serena and Patrick are a bit of a different sort of case - they were both established grown-ups ($$$!) when they got together and I doubt that either one had so much power or leverage over the other that there was potential for abuse, etc.

But when let's say a young lady who is a relative newcomer to the tour hits the road with a coach, I think that's where there's plenty of potential for unprofessional conduct to happen. The player in that case is much more at the mercy of the coach.

I'm a straight guy but I can see how his "tips" can make WTA players drop their skorts. Guy has an unbelievable reassuring presence. Great on TV
 
Honestly, I think the guy is better at branding and self-promotion than he is at tennis coaching. It's always hard to disentangle an athlete's success from the influence of their coach. How good would Holger Rune be, if it weren't for PM? The entire spectrum is possible: maybe we wouldn't even know his name, because PM's influence was so beneficial, or maybe he's even more talented than we think, and PM's influence is holding him back.

At the object level, though, most of what PM says is very basic, and occasionally even downright wrong. I remember a serve coaching video where he was demonstrating to Holger how his forearm wasn't externally rotating on his flat serve... except that it was. It clearly, obviously was externally rotating. The supposedly incorrect motion PM was demonstrating was, factually, just not at all what was happening. You can slow down the video and watch.

So yeah, I notice I'm confused by the entire thing, but I don't think it's that much of a contradiction. PM is a great brander and self-promoter, and a decent coach. In a world where it's very difficult to actually take accurate measurements of a coach's impact, I think that explains it.
 

morten

Hall of Fame
I thought people had PM figured out by now, a self promoter and a con man..many of his tips are straight out wrong too... he is just a big joke in too tight jeans..
 
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