Omega_7000
Legend
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Novak 2.0 vs Rafa
- Thread starter tenniselbow1
- Start date
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I really ain't a fan of all this weak era talk. It is funny that many *******s - I won't say Nadal Fans, because there are some here that are reasonable, and very good posters - the real Nadal fans - However there are these ****s that just make me shake my head.
The logic - Federer won all his titles in a weak era. Nadal won all his titles in a strong era.
What is wrong with this picture? Nadal was dominating clay, racking up 81 match winning streaks, winning his first four FO titles, reaching wimbledon finals, and was outright world number two pretty much a year after Federer took the top spot. Was Nadal winning his titles in a parallel dimension or something...did we have clay court monsters appear for the MC to FO swing, and vanish, so we have pathetic losers to fill out the rest of the season? Didn't Nadal also win his titles against the same field that Federer was winning against?
So, then I see some ****s saying, the competition was too young. They are now there, and it is the toughest ever.
But wait...
If anything Nadal has been winning even MORE. The guy sweeps three slams last year and starts putting up Federer like numbers. However Nadal is in his prime. But just because Federer is not winning, it is a strong era.
Nadal injures himself at AO, takes several weeks off. Comes back at IW on his worst surface, that the *******s would say, and beats virtually everbody, having coming back from an injury and goes three sets with an inform Novak. And then does it again in Miami only a week later...
So, if Nadal can come back from an injury on his worst surface, go through a field as deep as IW, and goes three sets with Novak, the player of the year. and then repeat it in Miami. What does that say about the era?
Nadal has been playing great. Novak has just simply been better this season so far.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
True. Huge difference between Novak of 2011 and Novak of 2010 UsOpen.
But then there is also a difference between Nadal of 2011 and Nadal of UsO 2010.
That said, I agree the gulf is larger in Novak's case. I still think Novak's best tennis of the year came in AO 2011 - especially against Fed in the SF, where Fed wasn't playing bad, but lost in straights.
So yeah, if it's Novak of 2011 AO vs Nadal of 2010 UsOpen -> I can see Novak winning, albeit in a close match of 4 or 5 sets.. (unlike their clay encounters this year).
Overall, Novak's best right now is probably better than Nadal's best - that much is true. The Djoker has become a fantastic player and he always matched up well against Rafa, which gives him an advantage. This is not to say that Nadal cannot beat him, but that Nadal will need his absolute best to do so, and it will remain a sour matchup in the near future.
Lastly... it's annoying to see people going on here about 2011 Nadal playing the best tennis of his career. That's foolish at best, and borderline insane at worst. In fact, this F.O and clay court season was among the worst of Nadal's career (in terms of form), and he was lucky to win the F.O - given how he played compared to his usual high standards. It's like Fed winning the F.O 2009 -- not playing great tennis, but managed to scrape through anyhow..
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Im not one of the guys going around saying it's a strong era, it's not about era. Results and form do not always go hand in hand. Reason it to whatever you want to, I don't care if he reaches 90 finals in a row, he isn't playing better tennis than 08 or 10. Troll all you want. And everyone is coming down on us because you think we're trying to make excuses for him losing to Novak, that's NOT IT. At least not for me. Novak IS PLAYING BETTER TENNIS THAN RAFA AND HAS OUTPLAYED HIM IN ALL 4 MATCHES THIS YEAR. I have no problem with that, I like Novak. But don't interject silly crap like "Rafa is playing the tennis of his life but is still being outplayed" that's ridiculous. And anyone saying that obviously hasn't seen Rafa play on clay before this year. (and I agree with everything you said in your post TF3) Especially the last bit.
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TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
As I said before, anyone claiming that Nadal is playing the best tennis of his life probably didn't watch the matches or is trolling.
This is not to say Nadal's best would be enough to handle the Novak 2.0 obviously..
tenniselbow1
Rookie
Every single Nadal ****/Fanboy should read the above. Every line is point on an accurate assessment of the topic of this thread. Bravo. +1 vote for credibility.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Well that's what most of us are saying. The ****s on the other side just aren't listening bc they are insisting Nadal is playing out of his skin.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Nadal himself admits he's a better player today than ever:
http://media.wimbledon.org/2011/web/nadal_interview_512x288_800.mp4
at 14:03.
http://media.wimbledon.org/2011/web/nadal_interview_512x288_800.mp4
at 14:03.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Sure, he is a better player than ever especially compared to his early days, he has many more tools, better serve, better volleys etc. There's a difference between being a better player than ever, and actually playing well/playing to your capabilities. He has said about 30 times this year that he has not played well at all. And even thought he wouldn't win the French.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Fail.......................
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Bottom line is this. Nadal is 25 and in his prime/peak. Djokovic is now playing his best (or perhaps he's not even at this peak yet) and has beaten Nadal repeatedly. peak Djoker > peak Nadal. No ifs ands or buts.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Be nice, jackson. You are a big failure yourself. Look at your bottom post for a nice example of fail.
I find this so funny. So Novak is playing THAT MUCH BETTER and Rafa is OBVIOUSLY not playing as well as he did last year but somehow he was 2 points away from winning Miami? GTFO!!! A lot of u guys need to watch the USO final again. It's just as impressive as everything he's done this year IMO, I haven't been anymore impressed. The difference is Rafa OUTPLAYED him, like it or not. And I hope he does it again at Wimbledon to kill your argument.
Djokovic almost lost to Troicki in that event, and faced two MPs in a long, tough match against Fed. He played OK in the final, but he didn't have a lot of gas left in the tank. This year he dominated everyone like they were all his puppets. Just for the sake of comparison, Troicki, a guy who took Novak to 5 sets at the USO, barely won any GAMES from him in the matches they played this year. Need more examples? Fed bet Novak 3 times last year after the USO (Shanghai, Basel, and a huge beatdown at WTF), and this year he won only one set against Novak in 3 matches, up until the FO. Novak has been unbeatable for the first part of the year (literally), and you know deep inside that Nadal is happy he didn't need to face him at the FO final.
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yes, Djoker is playing better this year, but its not like he has rockets in his shoes now and he is some robot or something is what im saying, the way people are making him out to be. He can be beat. And hell yeah Rafa was happy he didn't have to play him, he was being owned and he wasn't playing worth a damn. It's not all about Novak's form.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
LOL Yeah right troll.
2011 Nadal = peak Nadal. GLad you agree.
I understand that you want your man to have all the glory he can get but in 2011 Nadal hasn't played the best tennis of his career
IMO that should be pretty obvious to someone who has,at least watched tennis in the past 3 years
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Disagreed, IMO Nadal has played his best tennis ever in 2011. The objective results he's had back up my view. What backs up your view other than your subjective opinion?
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
what are those?
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DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
7 consecutive finals.
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
yeah, so?
in 2009 he had more points by the time RG began than in 2011, possibly even after RG ended
IMO he was at his best(playing his best tennis) from the start of the 2008 clay-court season till the end of the 2009 clay-court season (when the injury came along)
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
He knows, it's just more fun to be a troll I guess. This place can really be ridiculous.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
LOL, yeah convenient how his best revolves around when he wins the most. Methinks the ****s have cause and effect reversed. NAdal is playing as good as ever as the data show. In my opinion Djokovic play his best from 14:53 to 14:56 of the Rome final, he was GOAT in that time. LOLLLLL
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Sorry, but please don't tell me my opinion. Only the ****s seem to be blind to the fact that Nadal is in his peak now.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Now this is all a touch aggressive,the conclusion about any player's level of play is quite subjective,I get the feeling like you two are trying to impose your opinion by force.To me it seems like Nadal is playing the most breathtaking tennis of his career(reminds me of Fed in 2006),does that mean I don't really understand tennis?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Sigh. I really don't know what else to say. Im completely done though, completely.
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
Year W - L Winning persentage
2008: 82–11 88%
2009: 66–14 83%
(by the time RG ended he was 45-5 90%)
2010: 71–10 88%
2011: 45–7 87%
not that big of a difference
by the way, didn't you imply in your previous post that a player is at his peak when the "objective results" show that
aren't those^ objective results then?
actually the data shows something else, see above
I pointed out a year, not one month, not one tournament, not one match
if you think I chose a small period then fine: IMO Nadal played his best tennis from 2008 to 2010, that's 3 years,in that period he played better tennis than in 2011(again IMO)
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DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
You're exactly right, not that big a difference at all. His peak year of 2008 is essentially the same as his 2011, which proves he's still at his peak. Thanks for gathering up the objective data.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Your opinion is irrelevant. The data are the data. The numbers show a similar winning percentage as 2008 AND he's on course to win 3 slams as in 2010 or 2 slams is in 2008. Nadal is at his peak, QED.
tenniselbow1
Rookie
Concerning Nadal's current form:
Way to premature if he's on some type of slide or he's not at this best. Novak 2.0 is an all together different beast for starters. That said Roger at the moment is as well. Hands down Roger's form in Paris was better than in 09 when he won it. These things go in cycles. How determined are each to prove something at the moment? Roger is clearly not in his prime as he can't bring what he did to Paris consistently in the slams (have my doubts about him regardless of what people are saying about his chances at Wimbi). His game is too unpredictable at the moment unlike the other two who 'rapid cycle' between their best forms.
I think Rafa's had his moments this year as well. To take Djokovic to 3 sets on a hard court is not an easy task. He played the defending Australian Champion quite close. I think 2011 Rafa in IW and Miami would hands down beat 2008 Rafa on a hard court for example, possibly even 09 Rafa of the AO. Rafa played extremely well in the UO 2010 but Novak was not Novak 2.0. Rafa's clay court losses to Novak in which he clearly was not at this best was a bit mental as well. But he played extremely well in the final against an inform Roger to defend his title. I do think Novak may have his number due to matchup issues as Rafa had for so long with Roger but time will let us know and all of this talk is way to premature.
Way to premature if he's on some type of slide or he's not at this best. Novak 2.0 is an all together different beast for starters. That said Roger at the moment is as well. Hands down Roger's form in Paris was better than in 09 when he won it. These things go in cycles. How determined are each to prove something at the moment? Roger is clearly not in his prime as he can't bring what he did to Paris consistently in the slams (have my doubts about him regardless of what people are saying about his chances at Wimbi). His game is too unpredictable at the moment unlike the other two who 'rapid cycle' between their best forms.
I think Rafa's had his moments this year as well. To take Djokovic to 3 sets on a hard court is not an easy task. He played the defending Australian Champion quite close. I think 2011 Rafa in IW and Miami would hands down beat 2008 Rafa on a hard court for example, possibly even 09 Rafa of the AO. Rafa played extremely well in the UO 2010 but Novak was not Novak 2.0. Rafa's clay court losses to Novak in which he clearly was not at this best was a bit mental as well. But he played extremely well in the final against an inform Roger to defend his title. I do think Novak may have his number due to matchup issues as Rafa had for so long with Roger but time will let us know and all of this talk is way to premature.
Omega_7000
Legend
FAIL !
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
you've been reported :neutral:
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
it's not just my opinion, you sad that the data shows Nadal is at his peak in 2011
well the data shows better results in 2008,2009 and in 2010
in your previous post you said it's convenient for me to chose the period when he's winning the most but at the same time you're saying a player's peak is when the data shows it
don't make me laugh
zagor
Bionic Poster
In a sense he is indeed lucky,lucky to face the undisputed best Nadal has to offer,it's a privilege and honour playing against a legend at his best and I'm sure peak Novak gladly embraces such a challenge.
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
Indeed.Peak Novak has so far outclassed Peak Nadal on HC and clay.Their 'peak-h2h' says it all :wink:
zagor
Bionic Poster
Yes we are all eagerly awaiting for the inevitable response from uncle Toni and Rafa,what adjustments will Rafa make? He's one of the most adaptable players in the history of tennis,can he adapt to matured Novak? So many questions.It's a shame these two young men couldn't meet in FO final,it's what all the fans worldwide desired but alas the old Swiss vet trolled us all once again.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Huhhhh? How do the data show the results are better for 2008-10??? The percentage point is one less than 2008 and he's on course to win more slams. Please explain how the data show 08-10 > 11????
That's right, you did pick the period when he was winning the most. What was his record for the period you said was his peak? You picked start of the 2008 clay-court season till the end of the 2009 clay-court season. You conveniently left out the record from start of CC season in 2008. The best I can do According to that stats you provided is 82-11 (full year stats even thought you said from start of CC) and 45-5 = 127 - 16 = 89%. 89% is winning the most for any of the full years you listed, no?
But regardless, you miss the point. His record is not much worse now than it was in his peak according to you. Hence he is still in his peak. QED, please laugh some more
tenniselbow1
Rookie
"Lastly, i'm predicting (bar no injuries) this 4 match consecutive streak will reach 12-3/13-3/13-4 type numbers. Basically were going to see Novak utterly dominate Rafa in his prime. This is how they match up in my opinion."
This was what I said June of this year all you. Nadal fully out of the GOAT equation for good now, thank GOD.
This was what I said June of this year all you. Nadal fully out of the GOAT equation for good now, thank GOD.
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