Novak Djokovic and The USO - Can he end his career there as the USO Open Era's greatest champion?

#1
He has a negative H2H there in the finals 3-5, after USO 2013, Djokovic had a losing H2H against all remaining members of the big four, he was 1-2 against Nadal, 0-1 against Murray, and 2-3 against Federer.

The USO historically hasn't always been his favorite place to pick up the trophy, and he is often touted at the Lendl of this era at the USO. Lendl has similar kind of stats when it comes to finals.

But...can he actually turn it around to become the most successful there?

Djokovic needs at least two more USO wins to be included in that conversation, since Federer, Sampras and Connors all have five each and have incredible feats to go with it, Federer won five in a row, Sampras has the crazy longevity between first and last win, and Connors won it on three different surfaces...Djokovic, should he equal them could have his own claim...more overall finals. He has evened his H2H with Federer and Murray, but Nadal still holds a 2-1 H2H over him, that is still better than all three holding a winning H2H over him.

With the way the competition currently is, the level of Djokovic still very potent and finally taking into consideration that Ashe is now playing more to Novak's taste, with there being little to no wind and a much slowed down court, two more USOs are not improbable at the moment. Anything can happen, and he can drop off, but there is a strong possibility with the amount of times he will have a chance, he has a good chance.

If he manages to tie the five slams, where would you personally put him? Do you value his overall consistency of 10 straight years making semis, and more overall final appearances higher, lower, or the same level as the incredible feats of Sampras, Federer, and Connors. To me, it doesn't look like we have a true USO GOAT of the Open Era, and unless someone breaks the tie with six, it will stay that way.

How do you see his finally tally ending up there?
 
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#3
It is a pretty long shot, and he will have to win this year to have an opening.

:cool:
In a hypothetical scenario, he manages to win two more. Where does he stand for you? Of course anything less, and he is not in the conversation as three other players have more titles than him and McEnroe also has four.
 
#5
One never knows with Djokovic. So long as his tremendous physical fitness holds up and he can avoid anymore mental walkabouts (keeping Vajda by his side should help ensure that), I don't see what can stop him breaking records everywhere with the exception of Roland Garros (even super-fit, age-defying Djoko is highly unlikely to win 11 more Slams there).
 
#6
One never knows with Djokovic. So long as his tremendous physical fitness holds up and he can avoid anymore mental walkabouts (keeping Vajda by his side should help ensure that), I don't see what can stop him breaking records everywhere with the exception of Roland Garros (even super-fit, age-defying Djoko is highly unlikely to win 11 more Slams there).
I don't think he is breaking any records at Wimbledon. He missed his chances to surpass Federer there. But that is a conversation for another thread.
 
#7
Well, as difficult as it is for me to see him winning two more US Opens, I suppose it's possible. If he does, he will be the best at the US Open in my estimation.

And to anyone who called Federer the AO GOAT while he had the same number of AOs as Djokovic- they'd have to agree Djokovic would be the USO GOAT too. However, I don't begrudge anyone who likes to use the term co-GOAT, as I find that very fair.

So as it stands, he's clearly 4th 5th at the event. If he manages to win another two, he will have become #1 at the US Open in my book, because of his incredible consistency and number of finals. He'll only have a losing H2H to Nadal, and I feel like that alone isn't enough to discount his 5 titles and 5 extra finals.

How many do I see him getting, realistically? I don't think 1 more is too much to ask, given his form. But I think 4 is where he'll stop.
 
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#8
In a hypothetical scenario, he manages to win two more. Where does he stand for you? Of course anything less, and he is not in the conversation as three other players have more titles than him and McEnroe also has four.
It depends on who he beats, and how he does it, but, to be honest, it will be pretty difficult to supplant Connors as a first among equals.

I would probably go:

Connors
Djokovic
Federer
Sampras

:cool:
 
#9
It depends on who he beats, and how he does it, but, to be honest, it will be pretty difficult to supplant Connors as a first among equals.

I would probably go:

Connors
Djokovic
Federer
Sampras

:cool:
Do you put Connors first because he did it first? Or because of his titles over three surfaces? Or another criteria?
 
#12
Mehhh.. I'll always have Connors/Pete first. They both downed some awesome competition there and a very deep field. Sampras has taken down Safin, Roddick , Prime Agassi (multiple times), Lendl, Mac, Goran, Rafter, Chang, Hewitt over a 12 year period. Just a "who's who" of tennis. Then the "puke Fest" against Corretja in '96.... Stuff of legends.

Regardless of Fed, Nadal, Nole do at the USO (They could win 6 plus USO titles for all I care) until they retire. Its tough to top that
 
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#13
Well, as difficult as it is for me to see him winning two more US Opens, I suppose it's possible. If he does, he will be the best at the US Open in my estimation.

And to anyone who called Federer the AO GOAT while he had the same number of AOs as Djokovic- they'd have to agree Djokovic would be the USO GOAT too. However, I don't begrudge anyone who likes to use the term co-GOAT, as I find that very fair.

So as it stands, he's clearly 4th at the event. If he manages to win another two, he will have become #1 at the US Open in my book, because of his incredible consistency and number of finals. He'll only have a losing H2H to Nadal, and I feel like that alone isn't enough to discount his 5 titles and 5 extra finals.

How many do I see him getting, realistically? I don't think 1 more is too much to ask, given his form. But I think 4 is where he'll stop.
McEnroe is ahead of him there currently, he has four USO titles. So at best, he is fifth best there as it stands, but he has chance to climb up now.
 
#16
Well, as difficult as it is for me to see him winning two more US Opens, I suppose it's possible. If he does, he will be the best at the US Open in my estimation.

And to anyone who called Federer the AO GOAT while he had the same number of AOs as Djokovic- they'd have to agree Djokovic would be the USO GOAT too. However, I don't begrudge anyone who likes to use the term co-GOAT, as I find that very fair.

So as it stands, he's clearly 4th at the event. If he manages to win another two, he will have become #1 at the US Open in my book, because of his incredible consistency and number of finals. He'll only have a losing H2H to Nadal, and I feel like that alone isn't enough to discount his 5 titles and 5 extra finals.

How many do I see him getting, realistically? I don't think 1 more is too much to ask, given his form. But I think 4 is where he'll stop.
Didn't McEnroe win it 4 times? Surely he, Connors, Sampras and Federer are all ahead of Djokovic and possibly Lendl as well.
 
#17
I think he wasted too many chances, if one of those final losses went the other way I would have said he is in a good position.

Now, if he got to 5 titles I'd consider him as the greatest USO champion, as it would mean 10 finals there as well... Which would be stunning. But it's a pretty long shot now...
 
#18
Djokovic has exactly the same record as Lendl at USO, 3-5. However I feel he will win one more, just not enough to equal Connors, Sampras and Federer.

Reason: it is the one slam I feel were the NextGen will break through, plus Delpo’s best chance of winning another slam. So he may find it a little harder there, than say AO or Wimby, besides which he is not getting any younger.
 
#21
Too late now IMO. But winning one more would make up for his underachieving there somewhat.
6 is the target really . You don't get the GOAT award for managing to reach what someone else did like 40 years ago.
But it's ok to proclaim someone the GOAT of the event for matching somebody's total if the two of them are rivals?

Good thing all those Australia bragging rights lasted for just one year. It was pretty gross...
 
#22
I think he's got to defend the title this year to have a chance. Unlikely now if you ask me.

He'll always have Melbourne though. 7 Majors at one hard court Slam is a great achievement since a lot of other guys prefer that surface nowadays as well.
 
#23
Too late now IMO. But winning one more would make up for his underachieving there somewhat.

But it's ok to proclaim someone the GOAT of the event for matching somebody's total if the two of them are rivals?

Good thing all those Australia bragging rights lasted for just one year. It was pretty gross...
LOL

I wonder if the same thing was said about Federer at Wimbledon in 2012 by Fed fans. ;)
 
#24
Too late now IMO. But winning one more would make up for his underachieving there somewhat.

But it's ok to proclaim someone the GOAT of the event for matching somebody's total if the two of them are rivals?

Good thing all those Australia bragging rights lasted for just one year. It was pretty gross...
Fed won on rebound, plexi - more variety. Connors won on different surfaces .

Not a fair comparison.
 
#26
He missed too many opportunities to reach 5 wins at this point in his career. Also, the USO seems like the best slam for some new blood to breakthrough and no one has defended their title in over a decade. I think he can win one more, of course. If he did somehow reach five wins, I think he would still be behind Fed. Fed's five year run there produced some of the most dominant and magical tennis we'll ever see.
 
#28
LOL

I wonder if the same thing was said about Federer at Wimbledon in 2012 by Fed fans. ;)
I seem to remember extra final appearances were a pretty regular tiebreaker. Even when he missed out on some more titles, Fed never lacked those anywhere. Consistency n stuff...

Now just the fact that Connors won five USOs decades ago means Djokovic needs to do more than just matching that number. :unsure:
 
#29
sure he can...he's got to win 3 more titles and hope fed doesn't win another one...that will give him 6 titles at the us open which would be the record ahead of fed, sampras and connors all having 5 titles at the us open
 
#30
I seem to remember extra final appearances were a pretty regular tiebreaker. Even when he missed out on some more titles, Fed never lacked those anywhere. Consistency n stuff...

Now just the fact that Connors won five USOs decades ago means Djokovic needs to do more than just matching that number. :unsure:
That's how you spot a hater...when there is no consistency. :whistle:

Federer called Wimbledon GOAT after 2012, by virtue of the 2008 final...the 2014 and 2015 finals hadn't even happened at that point... ;)
 
#32
I seem to remember extra final appearances were a pretty regular tiebreaker. Even when he missed out on some more titles, Fed never lacked those anywhere. Consistency n stuff...

Now just the fact that Connors won five USOs decades ago means Djokovic needs to do more than just matching that number. :unsure:
I never seem to understand how math works with some Novak fans.

Some say Djoker needs just this FO to become GOAT - because the mere fact of 2 Nole Slams is enough for that. They called him AO GOAT at 6 titles even though Emerson had as many. Now it looks like 5 USO are sufficient for USO GOAT.

It is not even in one metric they want to wait until he "actually" does eclipse the prior record.
 
#33
There are equal chances of Djokovic equalling Sampras' 7 Wimbledon titles. In fact, it would be more important for Djokovic's legacy to tie Sampras' 7 Wimbledon titles than winning 6 USO.

Domination on 2 surfaces (hard and grass) >>> domination on 1 surface (hard).

*A Grand Slam is dominated with 7+ titles. Less than 7 is not true domination. Nadal has 11 RG and Court 11 AO, 5 is less than half of 11.
 
#36
There are equal chances of Djokovic equalling Sampras' 7 Wimbledon titles. In fact, it would be more important for Djokovic's legacy to tie Sampras' 7 Wimbledon titles than winning 6 USO.

Domination on 2 surfaces (hard and grass) >>> domination on 1 surface (hard).

*A Grand Slam is dominated with 7+ titles. Less than 7 is not true domination. Nadal has 11 RG and Court 11 AO, 5 is less than half of 11.
LOL - That is ridiculous. Are you telling me that Borg didn't dominate RG with 6 titles, or his five straight Wimbledon titles?
 
#37
I'd probably have him as one of the 'co-GOATs'. I personally think Connors and Sampras are both slightly ahead of Fed there but I'd say that given it's so close, the three are co-GOATs. If Djokovic wins 2 more, he could have the argument as the best given his 5 additional finals and all round consistency. However, you could still make good arguments for the others so calling them on a par sounds about right.

As it stands, I'd say it's unlikely he gets 2 more. I honestly doubt he can maintain this kind of form for the whole of this year, so I doubt he's grabbing the USO. But what do I know? These guys just keep proving everyone wrong. I say he probably gets one more, at some point in the next 3 years.

Incidentally, if he gets 3 more to have 6 in total, he's definitely the GOAT
 
#40
Djokovic has exactly the same record as Lendl at USO, 3-5. However I feel he will win one more, just not enough to equal Connors, Sampras and Federer.

Reason: it is the one slam I feel were the NextGen will break through, plus Delpo’s best chance of winning another slam. So he may find it a little harder there, than say AO or Wimby, besides which he is not getting any younger.
...and Rafa is still in play for the next year or two...I think.
 
#41
Djoker would pass Fed with two more USO titles. He would have a lot more finals than Fed there. Fed’s 5 straight titles makes it close. But Djoker would collect a lot more points in the rankings. Djoker with 5 titles beats Fed. Djoker vs Connors becomes more interesting. Djoker has more finals in this scenario. But Connors has titles on 3 surfaces and 12 straight semis. Djoker easily passes Sampras with 5.

1. Jimbo
2. Djoker with 5
3. Fed
4. sampras
5. McEnroe
6. Lendl

This is a good thread.
 
#42
I never seem to understand how math works with some Novak fans.

Some say Djoker needs just this FO to become GOAT - because the mere fact of 2 Nole Slams is enough for that. They called him AO GOAT at 6 titles even though Emerson had as many. Now it looks like 5 USO are sufficient for USO GOAT.

It is not even in one metric they want to wait until he "actually" does eclipse the prior record.
Good thing you'll be there again just in case to degrade four consecutive Slams and repetition of it because of whatever reason you come up with, all for the sake of balancing the forum I am sure. :whistle: Just like you are bringing up a guy from before Open Era right now, which is something that neither you or anyone else does in any other case, and something you didn't even think of when Fed was part of a three-way tie in AO. :whistle:

Why not set the target at eight US Open titles now while we are at it? There are guys who won seven, back when even Gore didn't watch tennis live...
 
#43
Pretty good, even-handed discussion.

Some of the discussion points remind me a little of the NFL QB discussions when Brady was "stuck" at 4 SB wins. Some valued Montana's 4-0 record in SBs, and others valued that Brady was 4-2 or 4-3 as he earned his way to more finals, which I agreed with. (Of course, it's a team sport, and no surface arguments in the NFL, but that aspect is similar.)

If Novak wins two more, and Fed stays at 5, I think I'd favor whoever got to more finals of the four of them tied at 5. Kudos to Jimmy for winning on HC, Har-Tru and grass, but to me, that's more of a quirk that others didn't have a chance to replicate.That would be my lean, though I'd want to factor in more overall results, W-L record, longevity of contention, etc.
 
#45
He has a negative H2H there in the finals 3-5, after USO 2013, Djokovic had a losing H2H against all remaining members of the big four, he was 1-2 against Nadal, 0-1 against Murray, and 2-3 against Federer.

The USO historically hasn't always been his favorite place to pick up the trophy, and he is often touted at the Lendl of this era at the USO. Lendl has similar kind of stats when it comes to finals.

But...can he actually turn it around to become the most successful there?

Djokovic needs at least two more USO wins to be included in that conversation, since Federer, Sampras and Connors all have five each and have incredible feats to go with it, Federer won five in a row, Sampras has the crazy longevity between first and last win, and Connors won it on three different surfaces...Djokovic, should he equal them could have his own claim...more overall finals. He has evened his H2H with Federer and Murray, but Nadal still holds a 2-1 H2H over him, that is still better than all three holding a winning H2H over him.

With the way the competition currently is, the level of Djokovic still very potent and finally taking into consideration that Ashe is now playing more to Novak's taste, with there being little to no wind and a much slowed down court, two more USOs are not improbable at the moment. Anything can happen, and he can drop off, but there is a strong possibility with the amount of times he will have a chance, he has a good chance.

If he manages to tie the five slams, where would you personally put him? Do you value his overall consistency of 10 straight years making semis, and more overall final appearances higher, lower, or the same level as the incredible feats of Sampras, Federer, and Connors. To me, it doesn't look like we have a true USO GOAT of the Open Era, and unless someone breaks the tie with six, it will stay that way.

How do you see his finally tally ending up there?
To me, being a runner up is not a negative. Slams are 7 matches not 1. Lendls 3 wins 5 runner ups is far far superior to a 3 time winner and zero runner ups
 
#48
He has a negative H2H there in the finals 3-5, after USO 2013, Djokovic had a losing H2H against all remaining members of the big four, he was 1-2 against Nadal, 0-1 against Murray, and 2-3 against Federer.

The USO historically hasn't always been his favorite place to pick up the trophy, and he is often touted at the Lendl of this era at the USO. Lendl has similar kind of stats when it comes to finals.

But...can he actually turn it around to become the most successful there?

Djokovic needs at least two more USO wins to be included in that conversation, since Federer, Sampras and Connors all have five each and have incredible feats to go with it, Federer won five in a row, Sampras has the crazy longevity between first and last win, and Connors won it on three different surfaces...Djokovic, should he equal them could have his own claim...more overall finals. He has evened his H2H with Federer and Murray, but Nadal still holds a 2-1 H2H over him, that is still better than all three holding a winning H2H over him.

With the way the competition currently is, the level of Djokovic still very potent and finally taking into consideration that Ashe is now playing more to Novak's taste, with there being little to no wind and a much slowed down court, two more USOs are not improbable at the moment. Anything can happen, and he can drop off, but there is a strong possibility with the amount of times he will have a chance, he has a good chance.

If he manages to tie the five slams, where would you personally put him? Do you value his overall consistency of 10 straight years making semis, and more overall final appearances higher, lower, or the same level as the incredible feats of Sampras, Federer, and Connors. To me, it doesn't look like we have a true USO GOAT of the Open Era, and unless someone breaks the tie with six, it will stay that way.

How do you see his finally tally ending up there?
Hitman, be patient. Novak won't leave ambiguity at USO by the time he retires.

How nice are these people praising consecutive championship and winning on multiple surface as if they were cheering for Novak's unprecedented 4 GS in a row on 3 surfaces.
 
#50
I think he wins one more but unsure about 2, but being that it is like Indian Wells in court speed these days 2 more may be in the cards for Novak. He is strongest in that type of conditions. I just hope they fix the ventilation problem on Ashe.
 
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