Novak Djokovic: "I support some best of three at slams... we need to save tennis from pickleball"

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
The title is my paraphrasing:

Q. You haven't had the situation in this tournament yet, but what do you make of five-set matches and the keys to thriving in them and the importance to the game?

NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Well, I mean, five-set matches, nowadays you can only see them in Grand Slams, right? That's what I guess excites both players and the crowd. Most of the people love to see it. We as players like to play it. Maybe not that often. I think at times, to see an exciting five-set match, like, for example, the one that I can highlight, it was one of the most exciting matches I've ever played in my life, the five-setter against Federer here in finals of Wimbledon 2019. I think that was the first year they introduced a 12-all tiebreak. We used it right away the first year in the final. So it was an incredible match with some match points saved. If that match was best-of-three, yes, I was two sets to one up, I think it would be quite different, because he was the better player. When you know, even if you're two sets to love or one down, like Rune was here today, who is my next opponent, he was two sets to love down, still he's not out, he can still win. I think if you're physically fitter I guess than your opponent or have more experience than your opponent in best-of-five, it still gives you a sense of confidence and tranquility, even though you're two sets to love down. Of course, there is a sense of urgency. You still feel like there's still quite a lot of time for me to kind of bounce back. Throughout my career, I've had quite a few matches where I was coming back from two sets to love or two sets to one down. Winning record mostly, positive score in a fifth setter. I enjoyed those throughout my career. I think they're an important aspect of the history and of the future, as well, of the sport. I would support it, particularly in the latter stages of the Grand Slam.

I've seen there's been quite a lot of debate on that. You guys have been asking a lot of players whether the best-of-five should be turned into best-of-three in the slams. I don't think so. I think they should stay best-of-five. The only thing that I'm maybe thinking it could be good to consider is the opening rounds that could go best-of-three, then you move into the hybrid of best-of-fives from the fourth rounds or quarters. I don't know. That's just me, my thinking. I think best-of-five, particularly in the last three or four rounds of a slam, you need to keep. But in terms of innovation in tennis, in our sport, I think it's necessary. I think we have to, other than slams, figure out how to attract young audience. I think tennis, from one hand, is in a good place, but at the same time when we look at Formula 1, for example, and what they have done in terms of marketing, in terms of growth of the sport, in terms of the races around the world and how popular they are, I think we need to do a better job on our respective tours. The Grand Slams are always going to do well. I think our tours need to do better. And we are lucky to be very historic and very global sport. But I think one of the studies that was done by PTPA three, four years ago, showed that tennis is the third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket. Number one is obviously football, or soccer as you call it in States. Second one is basketball. Then it's tennis and cricket. But tennis is number 9 or 10 on the list of all sports in terms of using its popularity, commercializing or capitalizing on that. I think there is a huge space for growth.

That we are quite fractioned as a sport. So there's quite a bit of things I think for us to really collectively look at and try to improve it. And we need to grow the number of players that live from this sport. Very rarely do I see in the media that you guys are writing about the fact that you have only 350 or 400 players, both men, women, singles, doubles, across the board who live from this sport on this planet. That's for me deeply concerning. Yes, we talk about the Grand Slam winner wins this or that. Then it's always the focus on the grand prize. But what about the base level? I think we are still doing a very poor job there, very poor job. Tennis is a very global sport and it's loved by millions of children that pick up a racquet and want to play. But we don't make it accessible. We don't make it so affordable. Especially in countries like mine that doesn't have a strong federation, that has Grand Slam or history or big budgets. I think collectively we all have to come together and understand how to maintain the sport's, let's say, foundation or create a new foundation, a cornerstone of really what tennis is about, which is the base level, right, the club level. Now we have the paddle or padel, as you call it in the States, that is growing and emerging.

People kind of have fun with it and say, Yeah, but tennis is tennis. Tennis is the king or queen of all the racquet sports, that's true. But on a club level, tennis is endangered. If we don't do something about it, as I said, globally or collectively, paddle, pickle ball in States, they're going to convert all the tennis clubs into paddle and pickle ball because it's just more economical. You have one tennis court. You can build three paddle courts on one tennis court. You do the simple math. It's just much more financially viable for an owner of a club to have those courts. Those are just some of the things I wanted to share. In the grand scheme of things, I feel like we need to address all of these, I feel like, challenges and issues for us really. They have been out there for a while but I don't think we have been addressing them in a proper way."
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Just want to say - overall some good thoughts from Djokovic. But the idea that tennis is the "third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket." is laughable. I have no idea how they are arriving at that conclusion or number but it is obviously not correct.
 

FRV4

Hall of Fame
Just want to say - overall some good thoughts from Djokovic. But the idea that tennis is the "third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket." is laughable. I have no idea how they are arriving at that conclusion or number but it is obviously not correct.
Nah it’s true probably. A lot of population dense countries watch tennis but not American sports for the most part. It’s like soccer then cricket if their soccer team is bad, and then tennis for them. Then you got the rich ppl who watch f1. But I get what you’re saying, tennis is really a dying sport cuz not many play anymore
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Nah it’s true probably. A lot of population dense countries watch tennis but not American sports for the most part. It’s like soccer then cricket if their soccer team is bad, and then tennis for them. Then you got the rich ppl who watch f1. But I get what you’re saying, tennis is really a dying sport cuz not many play anymore

It is definitely not true.

Has anyone ever calculated the total viewership of grand slam finals when you have all countries viewers totals in aggregate?
 

FRV4

Hall of Fame
It is definitely not true.

Has anyone ever calculated the total viewership of grand slam finals when you have all countries viewers totals in aggregate?
Idk but have you ever been to the more population dense countries in the world? I’ve been to the most population dense country sized country in the world and I can say it’s soccer cricket and tennis. And it’s not just cuz they like those sports they’re just the ones available.
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Idk but have you ever been to the more population dense countries in the world? I’ve been to the most population dense country sized country in the world and I can say it’s soccer cricket and tennis

I'm not denying that tennis is popular, but there is no way that the ATP is the third-to-most watched sports product, or league, in the world or even close to it. And if that isn't what we're talking about when we claim that tennis is the "third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket" - what exactly is that claim referencing? What tennis are people watching if not the ATP, and if it is so popular, where are people tuning in from? I'm supposed to believe that tens or hundreds of millions of people in India and Bangladesh are tuning into the Wimbledon Final?
 

FRV4

Hall of Fame
I'm not denying that tennis is popular, but there is no way that the ATP is the third-to-most watched sports product, or league, in the world or even close to it. And if that isn't what we're talking about when we claim that tennis is the "third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket" - what exactly is that claim referencing? What tennis are people watching if not the ATP, and if it is so popular, where are people tuning in from? I'm supposed to believe that tens or hundreds of millions of people in India and Bangladesh are tuning into the Wimbledon Final?
Ok I see ur point
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Just want to say - overall some good thoughts from Djokovic. But the idea that tennis is the "third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket." is laughable. I have no idea how they are arriving at that conclusion or number but it is obviously not correct.
Google is your friend.

 

RS

Bionic Poster
Just want to say - overall some good thoughts from Djokovic. But the idea that tennis is the "third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket." is laughable. I have no idea how they are arriving at that conclusion or number but it is obviously not correct.
Were would you rank tennis in the most popular sports? Excluding football of course which we know is easy top.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
The 1975-1978 USO had the first few rounds BO3 and the rest of the rounds were BO5 so it has been done before. Djokovic made great points about club tennis and how padel and pickeball are taking over, but I just don't know if that's the solution. He has to realize, that would make it easier for his records to be reached/surpassed. I guess he's thinking about the state of tennis as a whole though and not really thinking about that.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
I do think Tennis could be argued anywhere between 3 and lower end of the top 10.
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Were would you rank tennis in the most popular sports? Excluding football of course which we know is easy top.

It depends entirely on how we are measuring popularity. Because tennis on a very, very casual level is up there in popularity. But I'm talking about on a level so casual that the person does not even know Wimbledon is happening, let alone thinks about tuning into the final. The kind of popularity where someone says, "Oh yeah, I like tennis. Haven't played it in a while, maybe I should find my racket at the back of the garage." That is not monetizable popularity from the ATP's perspective. And so I'm not going to take the notion that tennis is more popular than American football seriously, because no one would rather have 1-2 billion "fans" who will never invest in your product over 300 million paying customers. And so Djokovic referencing THAT kind of tennis "popularity," is misleading. Because it can't be monetized as he suggests. Those are not ATP fans.

I would love to know the global viewership aggregate for grand slam finals. The data that is generally available, ie. host country plus USA, gives you something like 5-15 million viewers from what I've seen. How many people are watching around the rest of the world? I'm guessing not very many but I'd like to know for certain.
 

FRV4

Hall of Fame
Could’ve sworn f1 was the most popular what is going on. I mean it makes more sense to me that it’s not but the only reason I know of f1s existence is cuz I read it was the most popular
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
The 1975-1978 USO had the first few rounds BO3 and the rest of the rounds were BO5 so it has been done before. Djokovic made great points about club tennis and how padel and pickeball are taking over, but I just don't know if that's the solution. He has to realize, that would make it easier for his records to be reached/surpassed. I guess he's thinking about the state of tennis as a whole though and not really thinking about that.
Per your last point, I don't think he was taking that into consideration. But I disagree with your conclusion: it's easier to upset a top player in B of 3 than in B of 5.
 

thrust

Legend
I'm not denying that tennis is popular, but there is no way that the ATP is the third-to-most watched sports product, or league, in the world or even close to it. And if that isn't what we're talking about when we claim that tennis is the "third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket" - what exactly is that claim referencing? What tennis are people watching if not the ATP, and if it is so popular, where are people tuning in from? I'm supposed to believe that tens or hundreds of millions of people in India and Bangladesh are tuning into the Wimbledon Final?
Tennis may not have the fan numbers of a few other major sports, but it is popular, played and watched in many countries throughout the world.
 

a10best

Legend
The man is absolutely correct.
1. I agree 100% about slams from the 4th round to make it best of five for the men and the early rds best of 3. The NBA used to do best of 5 in the early rds too.
2. Tennis is in danger in the states with the rise of pickleball (so sad and embarrassing). The light blue short court lines for juniors was already an issue, now there's casual wiffle ballers.
 
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Apun94

Hall of Fame
Just want to say - overall some good thoughts from Djokovic. But the idea that tennis is the "third or fourth most popular sport in the world, most watched sport in the world, along with cricket." is laughable. I have no idea how they are arriving at that conclusion or number but it is obviously not correct.
What are your objections here?
 

ballamaz

Rookie
Why not just get rid of the US Open and replace it with the Pickleball open?

A true american sport can then be prioritised for the american people.
 
I agree with what he says about pickleball and we need to do more to promote tennis again especially for younger generations.

I disagree with the best of 5 issue though. I think every round should remain best of 5 as it more consistent then and it separates these events from others. The scheduling issue can be fixed with earlier starts for outer courts with no roof or get more roofs for even outer courts.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
Nah it’s true probably. A lot of population dense countries watch tennis but not American sports for the most part. It’s like soccer then cricket if their soccer team is bad, and then tennis for them. Then you got the rich ppl who watch f1. But I get what you’re saying, tennis is really a dying sport cuz not many play anymore
I'm from Europe (Germany) and I literally never heard anyone talk about watching cricket. Seriously, never. Of course football (soccer) is huge here, but the American sports also definitely have their fans (apart from Baseball which is far behind). Cricket on the other hand, I doubt more than half of the people would even narrowly know what you do in that sport.

F1 was huge here when Schumacher was active. He was a legend, but after him the boom was over. Even Vettel couldn't stop the decline. But I wouldn't say that WATCHING motor sports had anything to do with being rich. Of course rich people were usually interested in DRIVING expensive cars.
 
C

coolbh6

Guest
If 3 sets matches become the Norm I suppose Novaks' Slam record will never be touched - as lesser players have bigger chances in BO3 - as they need to win one set and get lucky in another - versus now where they have to win one and get lucky in two.
 

Zardoz7/12

Hall of Fame
Best of 3 for the Men and Women until the Quarter Finals where from then on best of 5.

Bring back best of 5 sets for Masters finals as the "happy medium" but that would require the ATP/WTA and the ITF/Slams to reach an agreement.
 

FRV4

Hall of Fame
I'm from Europe (Germany) and I literally never heard anyone talk about watching cricket. Seriously, never. Of course football (soccer) is huge here, but the American sports also definitely have their fans (apart from Baseball which is far behind). Cricket on the other hand, I doubt more than half of the people would even narrowly know what you do in that sport.

F1 was huge here when Schumacher was active. He was a legend, but after him the boom was over. Even Vettel couldn't stop the decline. But I wouldn't say that WATCHING motor sports had anything to do with being rich. Of course rich people were usually interested in DRIVING expensive cars.
I wasn’t talking about Germany. Is that known for being population dense? Oh I see the confusion. I was trying to be politically correct but I’ll just say it. Cricket is one of the most popular sports in the world because the teams that play represent countries that are poor and population dense. Not Germany dense, a lot more dense than that. Largely I am talking about countries like Pakistan Bangladesh India. My parents are from one of those countries so that’s why I’ve been there and know what they watch. There are more. There are a couple richer countries in cricket too I think.

I only bring up the fact that most of the countries are poor because it leads to greater popularity because there are less options
 
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Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
If 3 sets matches become the Norm I suppose Novaks' Slam record will never be touched - as lesser players have bigger chances in BO3 - as they need to win one set and get lucky in another - versus now where they have to win one and get lucky in two.

It works both ways. Would GOAT Djoker have 24 Slams with a 3 set format? As everyone knows Djoker has a penchant for losing early sets.
Was even down 2 sets to Tsitsipas at RG Finals.
:unsure:
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
I agree with what he says about pickleball and we need to do more to promote tennis again especially for younger generations.

I disagree with the best of 5 issue though. I think every round should remain best of 5 as it more consistent then and it separates these events from others. The scheduling issue can be fixed with earlier starts for outer courts with no roof or get more roofs for even outer courts.

Just playing devils advocate here - if it were best of 5 from only the 4th round on, that would still distinguish it from other events.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic is right. Make first 4 rounds bo3. This is crucial as climate change and really long matches will keep messing up schedules.

Only QF SF and F on men's so just 7 matches will become bo5.

The purists will cry but tennis won't lose much. It's the top heavy sport and we don't have time to keep watching non title contenders going five hrs.
 
Just playing devils advocate here - if it were best of 5 from only the 4th round on, that would still distinguish it from other events.
That is a good point. To be honest the 2nd week is the most important one where the best players face other. I could maybe accept the first week as best of 3 or even just say round 1 and round 2 then go to BO5. Maybe 2 BO3 and other 5 matches BO5. That still keeps it best of 5 overall but helps speed up the tournament with scheduling and also protects players a little physically.

I still prefer it as it is but maybe I could be on board with the first couple of rounds changing.
.
 
Djokovic is right. Make first 4 rounds bo3. This is crucial as climate change and really long matches will keep messing up schedules.

Only QF SF and F on men's so just 7 matches will become bo5.

The purists will cry but tennis won't lose much. It's the top heavy sport and we don't have time to keep watching non title contenders going five hrs.
Maybe the first couple of rounds. I’d prefer as many rounds staying BO5 as possible. It’s the beauty of the slams for me. It either stay as it is or just to go it for first 2 rounds.
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Realistically I could live with 1st week Bo3. I don't watch 90% of the matches being played anyway, and it would help a ton with the scheduling.

But I can't support it because I know that's how these things get away from us. Before you know it, it won't just be R1-3, it'll encroach to the 2nd week in R4. Soon after it'll become like the Masters/Olympics when they became Bo5 only for the finals. And then when it's only for the final the complaints start coming about how unfair and inconsistent it is to have different rules just for the finals, that the players shouldn't have to play their longest match once they're the most tired after 6 rounds.

And just like that Bo5 gets eliminated all together.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Per your last point, I don't think he was taking that into consideration. But I disagree with your conclusion: it's easier to upset a top player in B of 3 than in B of 5.
Yes it is but it's less work overall to win a Slam. Slams are very physically demanding when you play lots of 4 and 5 setters.
 

jeroenn

Professional
As far as I'm concerned, I'd like to see BO5 return to the masters, davis cup and tour finals and keep all slam matches BO5 as well.
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
Not really a sport in the first place.
Exactly. NASCAR races here in the States are viewed with the lowest of the low prestige, a congregation of rednecks getting drunk together, capturing the lowest social cache, and not at all a “sporting event”.

Then suddenly we put some pretty Euro boys in the seats and it’s a prestigious sport.

Hilarious.
 

FRV4

Hall of Fame
Changing tennis to have any bo3 at slams would be blasphemy if tennis were something holy, let’s be real. And switching to bo3 will not help it compete with pickleball. Unfortunately, it just can’t compete with pickleball because people are lazy. Key to beat pickleball is to make ppl want to play tennis not watch it.
 
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