One may point to the failures of the 2024 clay season. Djokovic no longer cares about the masters, and tore his meniscus at Roland Garros. We saw in the Olympics what Djokovic at 37 post meniscus surgery is still capable of on clay. With Sinner dominating hard courts and Alcaraz dominating grass, the 2025 Roland Garros is Djokovic's best chance at slam #25. Discuss.
Novak Djokovic is still the best player on clay
- Thread starter geromino
- Start date
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Retired
Regardless, still the best
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
So this is not a good thing to say but our guy is too old for RG.
He is NOT the best on clay anymore. It's raz and sinner.
Watching their match in rg semi, it was crushing to see both going 90+ mph on a dime on both backhand and forehand wing.
Clay needs POWER and speed. It's not for Nole anymore. Let him be 100% or even 120% at ao and wimby, abandon clay.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Even if djokers level is high I think both those guys and even Zverev would be favored. That said, could he even play safely and not injure hinself again? Wc has to be the number one tourney he is eyeing after maybe ao.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Yes skip clay.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
How is it Sinner
I think Zverev is better than Sinner on clay. Neither one could get Alcaraz but Zverev had a much tougher road and made it further
Zverev:
Nadal-Goffin-Griekspoor-Rune-Minaur-Ruud-Alcaraz
Sinner:
Eubanks-Gasquet-Kotov-Moutet-Dimitrov-Alcaraz
Rune and Ruud are tougher on clay than anyone Sinner played outside of Alcaraz...and that's to say nothing of Nadal in R1 compared to Eubanks on clay. Lmao
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
If by further you mean rounds, then ok. Otherwise it's just luck of draw that zverev was in other half.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
Tennfan123
Legend
He won zero atp clay titles in 2024.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
so did raz too!
roysid
Legend
While he was best in 2023 - alcaraz cramps and also best in 2024 OG - alcaraz fell short, difficult to say whether it will same in 2025. Age will have an effect, plus Sinner, alcaraz, zverev will be strong.
So let's see
so did Alcaraz and Sinner
GloW
Professional
I definitely agree, he will probably win RG if not, then Zverev GOAT will.
welcome2petrkordaland
Professional
Don’t agree that Djoko is the best on clay now, esp, in 3 of 5, but like jl809 said, slower clay gives him more time to make up for his slightly reduced speed. Look what he did to Carlos at Olympics. Overall, 100% agree with OP that Roland Garros 25 is his best chance at 25 due to hard court competition being too tough for the old geezer now. Djoko will be susceptible to losing in early rounds now on hard not unlike Rafa in 24. Clearly, though, Rafa’s physicality in 24 was much more diminished than Djoko’s will be in 25, Id imagine .
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
He can be a contender on grass and clay for a while IMO
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Not in Bo5. No way. It’s Alcaraz without a shadow of a doubt.
In best of 3 things get much more interesting.
Zverev I believe is the best in the world in Bo3 on clay, closely followed by Tsitsipas. Those two when they are at their best are basically unplayable in the shorter format of the game on clay.
It’s amazing to say this, but at 37 years young I think Novak is the third best in the world in Bo3 on clay (closely followed by Ruud) which is an insane achievement.
The X Factor in all this is Sinner. We haven’t seen a proper clay campaign from him since his transformation in 2023 autumn. We thought we would see it this year but injury and WADA politics stymied him. Given how freaky he has been this year he may have leapfrogged just about everyone.
In best of 3 things get much more interesting.
Zverev I believe is the best in the world in Bo3 on clay, closely followed by Tsitsipas. Those two when they are at their best are basically unplayable in the shorter format of the game on clay.
It’s amazing to say this, but at 37 years young I think Novak is the third best in the world in Bo3 on clay (closely followed by Ruud) which is an insane achievement.
The X Factor in all this is Sinner. We haven’t seen a proper clay campaign from him since his transformation in 2023 autumn. We thought we would see it this year but injury and WADA politics stymied him. Given how freaky he has been this year he may have leapfrogged just about everyone.
Pheasant
Legend
Djoker will be 38 at the 2025 FO. It’s going to be a tough road for him beat several good players in a row on that slow surface.
Odds at the FO, I’d probably go:
1. Alcaraz 31% chance
2. Sinner 30% chance
3. Zverev 18% chance
4. Djoker 16% chance
Rest of field: 5% chance.
A healthy Sinner with no hip issues might actually be the favorite. That’s tough to say. Sinner is healthy now and has improved since earlier this year. He’s serving better than ever. Alcaraz is always dangerous. But he can beat anybody beaten. Zverev is playing the best tennis of his life. He’s got a puncher’s chance. And of course, I can’t ever rule out Djoker, even though he’s 75 years old.
Odds at the FO, I’d probably go:
1. Alcaraz 31% chance
2. Sinner 30% chance
3. Zverev 18% chance
4. Djoker 16% chance
Rest of field: 5% chance.
A healthy Sinner with no hip issues might actually be the favorite. That’s tough to say. Sinner is healthy now and has improved since earlier this year. He’s serving better than ever. Alcaraz is always dangerous. But he can beat anybody beaten. Zverev is playing the best tennis of his life. He’s got a puncher’s chance. And of course, I can’t ever rule out Djoker, even though he’s 75 years old.
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Sadly nature dictates that the longer the match will go on the greater Nole’s age will be felt against the elite competition. Maybe he will skip IW and Miami to give him the best shot for RG?
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He can still vulture. Alcaraz isn’t a lock to win every time. We could just as well see a physically hampered Carlos lose to Ruud, hand in Djokovic a 4th RG title if he avoids Zverev too.
RaulRamirez
Legend
Unknown: Will a presumably healthier Novak be in better shape despite being a year older? Right now, I don't think he cares about the clay masters, and while he may be the best at RG, seven B of 5 matches is an awfully big ask at this stage.
I would certainly think at RG, I would favor Alcaraz, and slot Novak in a general tie for second with Z, Tsit if he shows up, and Sinner.
I would certainly think at RG, I would favor Alcaraz, and slot Novak in a general tie for second with Z, Tsit if he shows up, and Sinner.
nighthawkrr
Semi-Pro
I don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong of course, but Wimbledon seems more likely. He’s still top 4 there in 2025.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Who are 4 ahead of Djokovic in Melbourne? He beat fritz there this year as well as in Shanghai. Do you think zverev and medvedev are both ahead of him in Melbourne?
GloW
Professional
fixed it for you.
messiahrobins
Legend
Grass is too slow now for Novak thats why Alcaraz crushed him this year at W and baby Raz beat him last year.
Novak now needs super fast courts but the problem there is it seems Sinner is better in those conditions, but id say Novak has more chance where conditions are very fast and sadly none of the slams are that fast now.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
My take:
- Alcaraz 36% chance
- Sinner 34% chance
- Rest of field: 23% chance of some wild run (Maybe Casper can break thru finally)
- Zverev 5% chance (I think 2025 will be rough for him to defend)
- Djoker 2% chance
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It depends on which Djokovic you are talking about. A healthy one versus one who's movement is hampered. Honestly, I wasn't that impressed with the level of play at RG this year, especially the final. 36 year old Djokovic would have beaten both Alcaraz and Zverev if they played like that imo. But he's getting older by the day. His skills are better than them but the athleticism is declining and will be more declined by the time RG 2025 rolls around.
So that's the reason I wouldn't say he's "the best". If he's on though and healthy he could beat any of them on Chatrier as we saw in the Olympic final this year. With that said, I would say Alcaraz is the top guy on clay now but definitely wouldn't put Zverev over Djokovic considering his choking once he gets to the final dance.
So that's the reason I wouldn't say he's "the best". If he's on though and healthy he could beat any of them on Chatrier as we saw in the Olympic final this year. With that said, I would say Alcaraz is the top guy on clay now but definitely wouldn't put Zverev over Djokovic considering his choking once he gets to the final dance.
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Hitman
Bionic Poster
This is the ONLY thing that really matters. He can still beat them all on any given day. He has another slam in him.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Please remind me what has happened when they last time met in BO5 on clay.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea he can. He still looks like a young 37. I was watching him yesterday and I know he was mostly just playing around and taking it easy, but the fluidity in his game is still there. That what makes him so good. It's really all about the movement. I know you and I have discussed this before and I said because he hadn't had any real issues with his knees, ankles, etc. is the reason I felt he would dominate again, and he did that and won 12 more Slams. Never expected the number to be that high though. Now the issues with the legs has happened and it has slowed him down. If it weren't for that, he could still rule over them.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Untestable, therefore irrelevant.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Completely. I thought he was third or even fourth best behind sinneraz and Sascha.
NOW saying he would beat in 2023 form doesn't say much.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Well Djokovic is 2-0 vs Alcaraz on Chatrier. Testable enough.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yes, I remember that discussion and you were spot on about a lot of key observations regarding Nole's game as a whole, even I had overlooked one or two of things originally.
I was speaking to someone recently about Djokovic, and I loved how he was described. - Djokovic has all the fluidity and flexibility of Indiana Jones whip, but when it strikes, it leaves a mark.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
That's a pretty good description with the whip and Indiana Jones was the man. Lol.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Do not conflate the bo3 final to bo5 matches.
The 2 sets took 2 hr 55 mins to complete.
Yes Djokovic can be competitive vs all three but he would be at severe disadvantage on the slowest surface of them all.
The ball for Olympics was much different than RG as well. They used Wilson balls in Roland Garros while Dunlop balls in Olympics which was lighter and faster through the court. That helped Nole on serve a lot. And guy like Casper Ruud was knocked out by FAA?
So let's NOT equate both situations.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yep. LOL
Turning Pro
Hall of Fame
I think best of 3 Djoker has a MUCH better than best of 5 against ANYONE in 2025.
And in slams, especially against Raz and Sinner, the chances are relatively low imo, having said that i can still see going at the semis and finals at the Ao and Wimby.
Depends on the draw ofc too.
And in slams, especially against Raz and Sinner, the chances are relatively low imo, having said that i can still see going at the semis and finals at the Ao and Wimby.
Depends on the draw ofc too.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It was a 2 hour and 50 minute match, and despite the match being very close Djokovic won 11 more points. Add in the fact the he was hampered with a recent knee surgery and the difference in age, and that he was playing the new RG champ and you could see the significance of that win. I thought the players said the Dunlop balls were not good?
Severe disadvantage on clay? You have that backwards. It was the slowness of clay that hid his hampered movement and slowed everything down so it's skill vs skill, and Djokovic bested him point blank. It's because it was clay that allowed him to play that type of match considering he got destroyed on grass by him a couple of weeks before that. Completely disagree.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Ok then completely disagree as well. Faster court is where Nole will have chances vs Alcaraz more. Not slower courts. Sadly Wimbledon came even earlier and he had no idea how much the knee could hold.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Wimbledon isn't fast but medium at best now but it's still fast enough to expose his movement as we saw this year. Alcaraz isn't that great yet on faster courts but Sinner is so he would be the tougher challenge of the two, and again he would need to have great movement to actually beat him. I would rather Djokovic play Sinner on a slower court than a faster one.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Djokovic did NOT play sinner or zverev on clay at all this year. Untestable so irrelevant.
All we can talk about is Carlos.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Alcaraz is the toughest challenge on clay he could face and he passed the test. Zverev is great on clay but in Slam finals, he freezes up as he did again this year imo. Do I think either of them would beat 2023 Djokovic with what I saw in the final this year? No, but you're free to disagree.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Sinner is clay elo number 1 today. He barely lost vs Alcaraz in semis. The first set sinner totally strangled Carlos. I would say he is co favorite for RG.
Zverev is better today than in 2023 no brainer.
I can see 2024 raz beat 2023 Djokovic with what he showed in the final.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Sinner hasn't won anything important on clay yet and was 11-2 this year with no top 5 wins. Alcaraz was 10-1 and beat Sinner and Zverev. Why would Sinner be #1?
I just don't agree man, sorry. I wasn't that impressed with the level in the final this year. It wasn't terrible but not outstanding either. To look at it statistically, Alcaraz and Djokovic hit the same amount of winners in the 2023 final vs 2024 final (52 winners) despite it being 3 sets vs 5 sets, but Djokovic had 24 less errors.
