Novak Djokovic is the Ultimate Tennis Machine

#1
I’ve never seen anyone better at getting results and playing solid tennis.
Fedal are more spectacular but this guy is the most effective player of all time.

Congrats to Nole on another title today. I was rooting for Thiem yesterday but had to tip my hat to this guy.

Tsitsipas had no chance and Nadal 2019 version wouldn’t have been any better.

He’s going to be very hard to stop at RG. Co-favorite with Nadal (or maybe slightly ahead).

He really wants the Double Nole Slam and knows what it would mean for his legacy.
 

xFedal

Hall of Fame
#3
I’ve never seen anyone better at getting results and playing solid tennis.
Fedal are more spectacular but this guy is the most effective player of all time.

Congrats to Nole on another title today. I was rooting for Thiem yesterday but had to tip my hat to this guy.

Tsitsipas had no chance and Nadal 2019 version wouldn’t have been any better.

He’s going to be very hard to stop at RG. Co-favorite with Nadal (or maybe slightly ahead).

He really wants the Double Nole Slam and knows what it would mean for his legacy.
Lets see how he does at Rome.... something tells me he won't win Rome... will end up losing to ZVEREV/THIEM.... Or maybe Tsitsipas .
 
#9
Agreed. Watching him stand in the middle of the court and move Stefano back and forth and behind and back was masterful. I thought Agassi was the best there ever was at dominating from the middle of the baseline, but Nole is just as good.
Novak is a genius from the middle of the court. He is a great athlete and ball striker and all but people forgets his tennis IQ. His shots are from a tactical perspective from the highest order. He knows the strings to pull to be as effective as possible, this involves tiring the legs of his opponents by letting them chase the ball from side to side wich gives him an advantage in the long run. His game is well planned from top to bottom.

Watching Novak is like watching art. He is a master tactician.
 
#12
He has ZERO weaknesses.
Fed’s game is more versatile. Rafa’s is bigger. But Novak is ruthlessly efficient.
I'd say games with the big forehands like Roger & Rafa that can end points in 2 shots are much more efficient than Novak who likes to play with his food and work his opponents side to side.

But I suppose it's a matter of how you look at it.
 

acintya

Hall of Fame
#13
nextgen ken suk his dik

nole is like you said - the most effective player of all time
on top of that he is really smart

if he wants the trophy no one will stop him.

im searching for a new player who could fight with the ATGs but they are still not grown up enough. the mileage is not there.
maybe Thiem - but sometimes i think he is just like raw power and no touch at all - when he loses it balls fly in all directions.

cant wait for RG - it hasnt been so interesting for a while.
 
#20
Which is amazing. But still not my definition of efficient.

He's winning a higher percentage of his points because of that, but they're long points. Federer can play 3 points in the same amount of time and win 2 of them.
Valid point.
I guess what I mean by efficiency is that Novak hits his spots with ridiculous accuracy and can maintain a very high level throughout an entire match. Guys like Fed have more peaks and valleys. Even peak Fed had more peaks and valleys.
 

axlrose

Professional
#22
Hey hey,

Nole had to move more than Tsis, about 200m if I remember exactly.

On the other hand, he had 10 more winners, not bad for a boring pusher vs one of the most entertaining young star who possesses the shot for geniuses: the OHBH.
 
#23
Agreed. Watching him stand in the middle of the court and move Stefano back and forth and behind and back was masterful. I thought Agassi was the best there ever was at dominating from the middle of the baseline, but Nole is just as good.
My thoughts exactly.
After watching Thiem bully Fedal on baseline I thought Nole might be next victim, but he neutralized Thiem’s awesome power and spin with brilliant absorption and redirection. Minimal energy expenditure.
 
#24
My thoughts exactly.
After watching Thiem bully Fedal on baseline I thought Nole might be next victim, but he neutralized Thiem’s awesome power and spin with brilliant absorption and redirection. Minimal energy expenditure.
Thiem-Djokovic was a great match,7-6,7-6 came down to a few key moments. I still think he can beat Djokovic if they play over 5 sets at RG. Great 3 horse race in Paris shaping up...
 
#25
Thiem-Djokovic was a great match,7-6,7-6 came down to a few key moments. I still think he can beat Djokovic if they play over 5 sets at RG. Great 3 horse race in Paris shaping up...
As a Thiem fan, I’d love to believe you. I just fear that Djokovic is much steadier and much less likely to lose to a random guy in the draw.
 
#27
Novak is a genius from the middle of the court. He is a great athlete and ball striker and all but people forgets his tennis IQ. His shots are from a tactical perspective from the highest order. He knows the strings to pull to be as effective as possible, this involves tiring the legs of his opponents by letting them chase the ball from side to side wich gives him an advantage in the long run. His game is well planned from top to bottom.

Watching Novak is like watching art. He is a master tactician.
How many times I've seen Roger hit the ball back to his opponent's side of the court while Joker has clearly hit every shot aimed at making opponent hit on the run....Hit the damn ball where your opponent isn't......No charge for the ultimate tennis truth...thank you
 
#28
How many times I've seen Roger hit the ball back to his opponent's side of the court while Joker has clearly hit every shot aimed at making opponent hit on the run....Hit the damn ball where your opponent isn't......No charge for the ultimate tennis truth...thank you
Well said. He also has unreal ability to time shots and redirect balls deep in the court.
 
#29
I'd say Novak is arguably more effective and ruthless than a Peak Federer or peak Nadal. If he wins the CYGS, Novak could go down as the GOAT in the Open Era and cement his place in history over Fed/Nadal/Pete.

The French Open 2019 is critically important for Novak. It could mean the difference between an ATG Co-GOAT vs undisputed GOAT.
 
#30
Novak is a genius from the middle of the court. He is a great athlete and ball striker and all but people forgets his tennis IQ. His shots are from a tactical perspective from the highest order. He knows the strings to pull to be as effective as possible, this involves tiring the legs of his opponents by letting them chase the ball from side to side wich gives him an advantage in the long run. His game is well planned from top to bottom.

Watching Novak is like watching paint dry. He is an immmovable object.
FTFY

xD

He has ZERO weaknesses.
Fed’s game is more versatile. Rafa’s is bigger. But Novak is ruthlessly efficient.
Wrong...
His net skills and smash
 
#31
What makes him click is those heavy shots near the baseline ball after ball ,point after point..

You could see,thiem and tsipsipas,both excellent shoemakers but standing more than 2 metres in the baseline.You cannot just cope with that all the time..

Add to that his excellent serve..He is ruthless..
 
#32
How many times I've seen Roger hit the ball back to his opponent's side of the court while Joker has clearly hit every shot aimed at making opponent hit on the run....Hit the damn ball where your opponent isn't......No charge for the ultimate tennis truth...thank you
Novak plays percentage tennis by the books and doesn't try to put on a show. He's the modern day Lendl. It's just business. It could be partly due to him being coached by a woman growing up. WTA mentality, the point doesn't always need to end within a few shots.
 

Enga

Professional
#33
Hes like the only guy on tour who plain relaxes and focuses. That used to be Federer. It comes and goes though. He sometimes has lapses that make him look like a zombie.
 

Enga

Professional
#34
How many times I've seen Roger hit the ball back to his opponent's side of the court while Joker has clearly hit every shot aimed at making opponent hit on the run....Hit the damn ball where your opponent isn't......No charge for the ultimate tennis truth...thank you
Federer would do the same if he had better flexibility. Djokovic can redirect it anywhere.
 
#35
Novak plays percentage tennis by the books and doesn't try to put on a show. He's the modern day Lendl. It's just business. It could be partly due to him being coached by a woman growing up. WTA mentality, the point doesn't always need to end within a few shots.
He has been like this since 2015..He was more swashbuckling before..Between 2012 and 2014 he had some bad losses in GS finals...Since then he has devised this method,play around about 70 80 percent in earlier rounds and just be basically untouchable in latter rounds.. Playing percentage,efficient tennis might be part of that.

Also he doesn't need to be swashbuckling..Look what he did to Pouille and Nadal in AO.. Nobody is @ level that he needs to play like that.
 
#39
Novak is a genius from the middle of the court. He is a great athlete and ball striker and all but people forgets his tennis IQ. His shots are from a tactical perspective from the highest order. He knows the strings to pull to be as effective as possible, this involves tiring the legs of his opponents by letting them chase the ball from side to side wich gives him an advantage in the long run. His game is well planned from top to bottom.

Watching Novak is like watching art. He is a master tactician.
For me it's a nightmare. It's like watching the Terminator play tennis. I've never like his game, and I always root against him unless he's playing someone I dislike personally.

I don't like watching Novak play tennis. I've never enjoyed it, and the ball bouncing makes me insane.

BUT: IF you like his style of play, it's utterly amazing, and if you don't, you have to give him 100% credit for being a magnificent athlete. When I say these things I get hate replies from Fed fans, especially when I go further and suggest that if he had treated his gluten problem from the time he was a teen, he'd probably be at least tied right now in the slam race.

Let me go one step further. We both know that no one has been near Nadal's peak on clay. He's still standing on an average of about 63.5% of games on clay for his career, and he'd have to go on an epic decline for years to pull that down much. The only guy who won the same way on clay was Borg.

So beside Nadal, it's between Fed and Novak on clay. And here is something everyone misses.

These are points on clay, career, up to the last time I updated. I guarantee it is hardly changed:

Career points on clay:

Djokovic 54.04%
Fed: 53.58%

There is not much difference there, right?

Here is what you can reasonably expect. Take points over 50, double, add to 50. It's a bit higher on clay, but this is ball park.

Expect 58% of games for Joker, 57% for Fed. And I think it is fair to handicap Fed as a much older player. Game% always comes down in later years.

Instead, we see this:
59.07% Joker
56.72% Fed

This is patience, and it is choice of shots. There is a simple formula you can use to show efficiency of points, and there you see it. Anything over 2 is good, and close to 2.2 on clay is where the best are. This ratio does not work for players who started before 1991 because the ATP stats are all screwed up, but for later players it's very consistent.

These guys are between 2.1 and 2.2:

Djokovic
Ferrer
Thiem
Nalbandian
Coria
Kuerten
Ferrero
Murray
Nadal
Medvedev
Moya

The most important stat is about games, and Djokovic is 2nd only to Nadal in this era on clay. But the points story shows why Fed is 3rd instead of clearly tied for 2nd. He doesn't have the same surgical tactical ability on clay, and never has had it.

Federer: 1.88
 
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axlrose

Professional
#40
Novak plays percentage tennis by the books and doesn't try to put on a show. He's the modern day Lendl. It's just business. It could be partly due to him being coached by a woman growing up. WTA mentality, the point doesn't always need to end within a few shots.
Match stats shows that Djo won more under-5-shot rallies.

He also had 10 more winners.

It seems that he has nothing special, he's no different than thousands other players out there.

Actually, he's very special, so special that there's no other player is identical.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#41
Let's be real. We are at almost mid season and Djokovic has 2 titles (albeit the biggest one and one of the other big).

If he doesn't produce excellent results until after Wimbledon we are looking at a 2013 type of season for him.

:cool:
 
#42
Let's be real. We are at almost mid season and Djokovic has 2 titles (albeit the biggest one and one of the other big).

If he doesn't produce excellent results until after Wimbledon we are looking at a 2013 type of season for him.

:cool:
I think to be "real" we have to keep an eye on the last 52 weeks and see how thing develop. I admit it has been a strange year, but until RG evades him I will assume he is pointing towards majors, which is exactly what his biggest detractors used to say he was not good at. Do you remember GrannyB? ;)
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
#43
I think to be "real" we have to keep an eye on the last 52 weeks and see how thing develop. I admit it has been a strange year, but until RG evades him I will assume he is pointing towards majors, which is exactly what his biggest detractors used to say he was not good at. Do you remember GrannyB? ;)
I am not sure.

I think that (starting from Wimbledon where his recovery of form started) he was a bit lucky to manage to return to form just in time for the most important matches at SW19.

At the US Open he had in

R1 Fucsovic
R2 Sandgren
R3 Gasquet
R4 Sousa
QF Millman
SF Nishikori
F Del Potro

Apart from the R1 where Fucsovic was very tricky, and the final, where he just didn't allow Del Potro to play like he can, I would say that his opponents were underwhelming.

We know what happened at the WTF.

AO he was again unconvincing until the SF when he returned to his best current form and it is also his pet Major. Still impressive work against Nadal.

All in all, while the results were impressive, the impressive victories were not that many.


:cool:
 
#44
For me it's a nightmare. It's like watching the Terminator play tennis. I've never like his game, and I always root against him unless he's playing someone I dislike personally.

I don't like watching Novak play tennis. I've never enjoyed it, and the ball bouncing makes me insane.

BUT: IF you like his style of play, it's utterly amazing, and if you don't, you have to give him 100% credit for being a magnificent athlete. When I say these things I get hate replies from Fed fans, especially when I go further and suggest that if he had treated his gluten problem from the time he was a teen, he'd probably be at least tied right now in the slam race.

Let me go one step further. We both know that no one has been near Nadal's peak on clay. He's still standing on an average of about 63.5% of games on clay for his career, and he'd have to go on an epic decline for years to pull that down much. The only guy who won the same way on clay was Borg.

So beside Nadal, it's between Fed and Novak on clay. And here is something everyone misses.

These are points on clay, career, up to the last time I updated. I guarantee it is hardly changed:

Career points on clay:

Djokovic 54.04%
Fed: 53.58%

There is not much difference there, right?

Here is what you can reasonably expect. Take points over 50, double, add to 50. It's a bit higher on clay, but this is ball park.

Expect 58% of games for Joker, 57% for Fed. And I think it is fair to handicap Fed as a much older player. Game% always comes down in later years.

Instead, we see this:
59.07% Joker
56.72% Fed

This is patience, and it is choice of shots. There is a simple formula you can use to show efficiency of points, and there you see it. Anything over 2 is good, and close to 2.2 on clay is where the best are. This ratio does not work for players who started before 1991 because the ATP stats are all screwed up, but for later players it's very consistent.

These guys are between 2.1 and 2.2:

Djokovic
Ferrer
Thiem
Nalbandian
Coria
Kuerten
Ferrero
Murray
Nadal
Medvedev
Moya

The most important stat is about games, and Djokovic is 2nd only to Nadal in this era on clay. But the points story shows why Fed is 3rd instead of clearly tied for 2nd. He doesn't have the same surgical tactical ability on clay, and never has had it.

Federer: 1.88
Novak is great to watch. I get the ball bouncing is frustrating but he is a fascinating player in my eyes. Aside from the other fantastic things about his game, the strategical side of him should be brought up more. The guy is a genius on the court.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
#45
Novak is great to watch. I get the ball bouncing is frustrating but he is a fascinating player in my eyes. Aside from the other fantastic things about his game, the strategical side of him should be brought up more. The guy is a genius on the court.
Djokovic is typically boring and ugly to watch when he wins.
 
#46
Djokovic is typically boring and ugly to watch when he wins.
Is watching any player win easily again and again interesting to watch over time? I was bored out of my mind with Fed for 2004-2007, and the only time there was interest was from Nadal.

Madrid this year was very interesting because nothing was a foregone conclusion. I expect the clay season to continue to be full of drama this year. There is no clear front runner, although at the moment Novak has to be considered the favorite.
 
#48
I am not sure.

I think that (starting from Wimbledon where his recovery of form started) he was a bit lucky to manage to return to form just in time for the most important matches at SW19.

At the US Open he had in

R1 Fucsovic
R2 Sandgren
R3 Gasquet
R4 Sousa
QF Millman
SF Nishikori
F Del Potro

Apart from the R1 where Fucsovic was very tricky, and the final, where he just didn't allow Del Potro to play like he can, I would say that his opponents were underwhelming.

We know what happened at the WTF.

AO he was again unconvincing until the SF when he returned to his best current form and it is also his pet Major. Still impressive work against Nadal.

All in all, while the results were impressive, the impressive victories were not that many.


:cool:
Peak Djokovic playing the tour (especially at AO) is like the smartest guy in your HS taking an easy class. He doesn’t have to study or try hard to get an A.
 
#49
Novak plays percentage tennis by the books and doesn't try to put on a show. He's the modern day Lendl. It's just business. It could be partly due to him being coached by a woman growing up. WTA mentality, the point doesn't always need to end within a few shots.
WTA Mentality ?? Double faults and hit the ball as hard as possible down the middle of the court ??
 
#50
Agreed. Watching him stand in the middle of the court and move Stefano back and forth and behind and back was masterful. I thought Agassi was the best there ever was at dominating from the middle of the baseline, but Nole is just as good.
I had to think of Andre in yesterday's final. It was so eerily similar to how Andre played, though Andre took the ball earlier and had the greater FH. But Djoker's ROS is as good and his ability to redirect the ball is just jaw dropping. I've always said the greatest ball striker in tennis history is Andre, but Novak may be his equal, if not superior at this point.
 
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