Novak Djokovic legacy tarnished inflated by multiple Australian Open titles.

A

Amelie Mauresmo

Banned
If Novak Djokovic does NOT win a slam outside of the Australian Open next year then I feel his legacy will be tarnished. Djokovic has 4 AO titles yet he's only won Wimbledon once and US OPEN once.

Novak isn't even close to being in Rafa's category and to Nadal's credit he has won FIVE slams outside of the French Open.

So, next year is a VERY IMPORTANT one for Novak Djokovic he must prove his 2011 season was no fluke. If Novak doesn't win the French Open next year I fear he is NEVER going to win it.

People on this board keep on saying how mentally tough Novak is BUT I am not so sure. The choke job against Nadal at the French Open, the mental collapse against Murray not putting up a good fight at Wimbledon.

The 1-4 record in US OPEN finals is disgraceful for a champion like Novak.

Next, year Novak MUST find a way to grab a slam outside of Australia or his legacy will be ruined. He will only prove he can win the least important of the four slams the Australian Open which doesn't make him a great legend.

Even Boris Becker and Stefan Edberg they both won six slams like Novak but Becker won Wimbledon twice, and Edberg won the US OPEN twice.

Maybe Novak isn't so great after all?
 
In the end, it's all about the Total number of Slams imo!
If he keeps on adding AO's but no other slams, still his Slam count will keep on increasing. And that's cool too.
 
Maybe he isn't... guess we'll see.

I've talked about what his exploits at the AO mean to me time and time again. The court surface change was a beautiful thing for him, no doubt.


Colour me cynical and maybe I'm being unfair, but the feeling is real.


Eking out further Majors outside of the AO would probably be beneficial for his legacy.
 
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Rafa won 4 FO before he won any other major. It is not that Novak has lost in early rounds in other majors. He is in the finals of every major. His consistency is Federerian.
 
LazyNinja19 said:
In the end, it's all about the Total number of Slams imo!
If he keeps on adding AO's but no other slams, still his Slam count will keep on increasing. And that's cool too.
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I disagree it is about QUALITY not just QUANTITY. Look at Margaret Court she has 24 slams the most out of anybody YET she isn't considered GOAT because she won 11 Australian Opens. The Australian Open is the basement of the grand slams and people on this board KNOW IT.

Federer is RESPECTED because he won Wimbledon SEVEN TIMES the most of any man he has tied his idol Pete Sampras. Since Wimbledon is the MOST IMPORTANT slam it only shows Federer's greatness. Federer has also won the US OPEN FIVE TIMES. This shows how special a player Roger is.

The other three slams have MORE GREATNESS. When Nadal BROKE Borg's record at the French Open winning it more than SIX TIMES it was considered an incredible achievement. If Novak wins EIGHT Australian Open it is not equal. People will shrug their shoulders if Novak gets to six or seven Australian Open titles it won't matter. The reason is, people will NOTICE Novak has NEVER won the French Open and he's only won Wimbledon and the US OPEN once.

So QUALITY of winning slams is just as important as the overall number.
 
Nadal was the one who choked vs Novak at the French. That match never should have come close to a 5th set. Novak meanwhile did incredibly well (with the assistance of Nadal choking) to even be close to winning the match, despite being totally outplayed.

Wimbledon and the U.S Open he lost to people who were either better on the surface (Murray at Wimbledon) or in better form at the time and in the tournament (Nadal). You cant accurately say he should have won either of those finals either.
 
Not really. Is Nadal's legacy tarnished by his disproportionate amount of RG titles?

I agree that Novak's USO finals record is a big blemish on his resume.
 
Right now he is the male Hingis. She was 3-1-1 and he is 4-1-1 with both winning most of their slams at the AO. Next year he will be 27 and as we have seen, most players win the majority of their slams before 27.
 
Incognito said:
To djokovic defense, he has won the Serbian open..
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Excellent point.

You're_winner.gif
 
Tenez101 said:
Not really. Is Nadal's legacy tarnished by his disproportionate amount of RG titles?

I agree that Novak's USO finals record is a big blemish on his resume.
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No it isn't because the French Open is the TOUGHEST slam to win. You've got to have SERIOUS TALENT to compete on the clay. The French Open is the most important slam to most Europeans besides the British.

The Australian Open is the least important of the four slams.

All I am saying is Novak doesn't deserve to be put in the same category as Federer and Nadal he just isn't good enough.

The horrible record Novak has at the US OPEN despite being a great hardcourt player is shocking 1-4.
 
NatF said:
Yes Djokovic should skip the Australian Open from now, winning there will only make him worse.
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Sounds like your brethren, who declare RG a worthless tournament because Nadal wins it too much for them. Afterall, 8 RG titles is worth less than winning one WTF, and is played on a "peasant's surface". What a dumb mug this Nadal is for having won such a lousy title so many times. He's only tarnishing his legacy for having it won it so much.
 
Amelie Mauresmo said:
No it isn't because the French Open is the TOUGHEST slam to win. You've got to have SERIOUS TALENT to compete on the clay. The French Open is the most important slam to most Europeans besides the British.

The Australian Open is the least important of the four slams.

All I am saying is Novak doesn't deserve to be put in the same category as Federer and Nadal he just isn't good enough.

The horrible record Novak has at the US OPEN despite being a great hardcourt player is shocking 1-4.
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It's harder in some aspects but easier in other aspects. Otherwise players who win French Open would win everything else easily if the French was truly more difficult to win.
 
Clarky21 said:
Sounds like your brethren, who declare RG a worthless tournament because Nadal wins it too much for them. Afterall, 8 RG titles is worth less than winning one WTF, and is played on a "peasant's surface". What a dumb mug this Nadal is for having won such a lousy title so many times. He's only tarnishing his legacy for having it won it so much.
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lol I don't know what it is today Nadal fans keep pinning what other fans of Federer have said onto me. Infact I knew you would be saying exactly this when I saw you had responded to the thread...

Personally I think winning the FO would add less to Nadal's legacy than another Wimbledon for example (especially after those 2 bad losses). But if he gets to 9 or even 10 FO's that would be an incredible achievement and something really unique. Any big title win whether it be the Australian the French adds to a resume.

In future it would nice if you responded to my points rather than just directing anger (justified or otherwise) incurred by other Federer fans onto me.
 
I think it's rubbish to detract from a player's legacy because he is particularly successful at a certain venue. The only thing one might say is "tarnishing" his legacy is his RG record and he's faced some inspired opposition to deny him that title.

Similarly, I believe Nadal's failings at the WTF and in terms of all-year-dominance have tarnished his legacy rather than his stupendous record at RG.
 
winning more slams on other surfaces of course helps him but his multiple AO titles give him a chance to become the GOAT in a single major (AO). 2 more AO wins and he probably is the undisputed AO GOAT which would be a huge achievement. doesn't make him the GOAT but puts him in an elite company as there are only 4 slam GOATs.
 
Chico said:
The OP knows nothing about tennis. That is all that needs to be said here.
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Most casual tennis fans don't even know or care about the Australian Open. Nobody cares about the Australian Open EXCEPT hard core tennis fans. Ask ten people on the street if they ever heard of the Australian Open or care for it most would say NO.

Most people know about Wimbledon, US OPEN, and the French Open. The Australian Open is the least important of the four slams it isn't equal to the other three. So Novak being dominant in Australia doesn't improve his legacy and it only proves 2011 was a fluke. Novak MUST win grand slams outside of Australia to improve his legacy.
 
I am Djokovic big fan ,and I want one more AO to be true AO goat. That would be his greatest achievement, greater then career slam. Only one player is slam goat and that is nadal in FO. USO and W are questionable
 
Amelie Mauresmo said:
The Australian Open is the basement of the grand slams...
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So the AO is the 'bottom' of the grand slams? While I would normally defer to your 'bottom' expertise, I do think the relative worth of a tournament shouldn't only be measured by its standing vs. other tourneys but by the strength of the draw, that is, how many of the big guns are in the draw.

Anyway, "bottoms up" Amelie! Hope you enjoyed Thanksgiving, eating the big bird while enjoying the stuffing.



;-)
 
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Why people keep thinking that THEIR opinion is the right and the only one ? Seriously this is so lame ...

Other people outside the tennis fans dont count AO as an important one !!!!!!!! After this kind of sentence I really want to slap you hard , you dont deserve other answer.

I came here to this Forum to talk about tennis and 90% of the new threads are crap like this - Peak that , Peak dad , GOAT me , GOAT SHEEP .The threads about Novak, Nadal and Federer should have some kind of limit ................
 
dominikk1985 said:
winning more slams on other surfaces of course helps him but his multiple AO titles give him a chance to become the GOAT in a single major (AO). 2 more AO wins and he probably is the undisputed AO GOAT which would be a huge achievement. doesn't make him the GOAT but puts him in an elite company as there are only 4 slam GOATs.
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1 more AO would make him the undisputed AO GOAT, as much as I cant stand Djokovic. He is already arguably-probably the AO GOAT even today, but not undisputed until his 5th title.
 
Amelie Mauresmo said:
If Novak Djokovic does NOT win a slam outside of the Australian Open next year then I feel his legacy will be tarnished. Djokovic has 4 AO titles yet he's only won Wimbledon once and US OPEN once.

Novak isn't even close to being in Rafa's category and to Nadal's credit he has won FIVE slams outside of the French Open.

So, next year is a VERY IMPORTANT one for Novak Djokovic he must prove his 2011 season was no fluke. If Novak doesn't win the French Open next year I fear he is NEVER going to win it.

People on this board keep on saying how mentally tough Novak is BUT I am not so sure. The choke job against Nadal at the French Open, the mental collapse against Murray not putting up a good fight at Wimbledon.

The 1-4 record in US OPEN finals is disgraceful for a champion like Novak.

Next, year Novak MUST find a way to grab a slam outside of Australia or his legacy will be ruined. He will only prove he can win the least important of the four slams the Australian Open which doesn't make him a great legend.

Even Boris Becker and Stefan Edberg they both won six slams like Novak but Becker won Wimbledon twice, and Edberg won the US OPEN twice.

Maybe Novak isn't so great after all?
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Besides the AO inflation, I find most troubling that Djoker has only won any slam outside the Australian Open in 2011. The slam H2H vs Rafa is 3-0 in Rafa's favor after AO 2012 also, which is bad after having gained the psychological upper hand.
 
Amelie Mauresmo said:
If Novak Djokovic does NOT win a slam outside of the Australian Open next year then I feel his legacy will be tarnished. Djokovic has 4 AO titles yet he's only won Wimbledon once and US OPEN once.

Novak isn't even close to being in Rafa's category and to Nadal's credit he has won FIVE slams outside of the French Open.
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Are you saying Djokovic's legacy will be tarnished if he never reaches Nadal's category? He was never in the running anyway, so the fact he's won 6 slams is all positive. Djokovic's legacy is what its supposed to be - better than everyone on the tour except for Nadal/Federer. Hard to see where the tarnish is. Its a miracle that he beat Nadal 3 times out of 11 slam meetings. Ok, 3 of 11 isn't that miraculous, but it is considering Djokovic was known for quitting big matches but ended up winning 3 slam finals vs the master of mental toughness. Djokovic has far exceeded the expectations people had for him in 2010.
 
Forehand Of Doom said:
Besides the AO inflation, I find most troubling that Djoker has only won any slam outside the Australian Open in 2011. The slam H2H vs Rafa is 3-0 in Rafa's favor after AO 2012 also, which is bad after having gained the psychological upper hand.
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not really. it's not Novak fault Rafa chickened out 2W + AO + USO since
 
vladap said:
not really. it's not Novak fault Rafa chickened out 2W + AO + USO since
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Chickened out? He was out of the tour recuperating from injury.

Besides, what did Djokovic do in slams during Nadal's absence but win a paltry AO? Djokovic blew it in my book. He had a great chance to add up to his resume and he failed.
 
Forehand Of Doom said:
Chickened out? He was out of the tour recuperating from injury.

Besides, what did Djokovic do in slams during Nadal's absence but win a paltry AO? Djokovic blew it in my book. He had a great chance to add up to his resume and he failed.
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Blew it? I think you're forgetting that there are other players in the world that can beat Djokovic. Or wear him down until he eventually loses.
 
Forehand Of Doom said:
Chickened out? He was out of the tour recuperating from injury.

Besides, what did Djokovic do in slams during Nadal's absence but win a paltry AO? Djokovic blew it in my book. He had a great chance to add up to his resume and he failed.
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he managed to be in most major finals. that should be enough for a non glory-haunting tennis admirer
 
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