Novak Djokovic's Chances at Surpassing Nadal?

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Who dominates clay like Rafa? What's your point?

The point is that the domination is on account of weaker competition. Novak does not enjoy the same benefit.

It does not need an Einstein to know that the only top player to have clay as their best surface other than Nadal is his lap dog, Ferrer.

It is an irony he loses to him in hard court majors after crushing him left and right on clay.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Exactly. Even if Nadal retires today, Novak will not catch his Slam count. Dimitrov or Murray however might go on to surpass Novak.

Like I said before, Novak doesn't have to catch Nadal's Slam count to be considered greater than him. And if you think Dimitrov may surpass Nole, why can't Nole surpass Nadal?
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Exactly. Even if Nadal retires today, Novak will not catch his Slam count. Dimitrov or Murray however might go on to surpass Novak.

Forget Dimitrov. What has he done at 23? But Murray surpassing Novak is more likely than Novak surpassing Nadal and I don't think Murray surpassing Novak is likely at all.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Guys, I'm not sure what they're smoking tonight, but I'm done. I can't wait till some of the regulars wake up and see some of this shi.... :lol: wow.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
What are you crying about ? Nobody here is discrediting Novak
The only ones discrediting a player here are you and tennisaddict and Chico of course

I have not discredited Nadal. What he has accomplished on clay is insane.

What you need appreciation is that Nadal has been fortunate to have clay as his dominant surface. If he had hard courts as his favorite, he would have probably been wherever Novak is today.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
The constant FO hate here is absolutely stunning. Physically it's the hardest slam to win, the man is 66-1 there and people act like he hasn't accomplished a damn thing. Straight-up embarrassing.

Tennis is much better when it rewards talent and brain more than physicality. No wonder many find Nadal's game ugly even as on date.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
I have not discredited Nadal. What he has accomplished on clay is insane.

What you need appreciation is that Nadal has been fortunate to have clay as his dominant surface. If he had hard courts as his favorite, he would have probably been wherever Novak is today.

Nadal has stopped Federer winning about another 5 French Opens. So Federer would have the same number of French Opens as Borg if Nadal hadn't been in his way, not to mention the Monte Carlos and Romes. If that had happened, he'd be talked of as the clay GOAT or very close to it. Instead, Federer has 1 French Open and you downplay Federer on clay because that's where Nadal has dominated so utterly.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
Like I said before, Novak doesn't have to catch Nadal's Slam count to be considered greater than him. And if you think Dimitrov may surpass Nole, why can't Nole surpass Nadal?

Winning 7 or 8 Slams for a 23 year old is easier and more realistic than for a 27 year old soon to be daddy Djokovic.
 

LazyNinja19

Banned
LOL.
2 weeks back Djoko fans were crying how he won't win more Slams. And now Djoko beats a 33 year old player in 5 sets in Wimbledon, and suddenly he'll surpass Nadal? :lol:

Remember, "Wawrinka will win CYGS 2014" after he won AO? :lol:
This place is totally nuts!

Chico, again with his classless post, showing why he's the most subjective poster ever. And I thought he might have improved. Something's never change!
 

BringBackSV

Hall of Fame
The point is that the domination is on account of weaker competition. Novak does not enjoy the same benefit.

It does not need an Einstein to know that the only top player to have clay as their best surface other than Nadal is his lap dog, Ferrer.

It is an irony he loses to him in hard court majors after crushing him left and right on clay.

Novak is an excellent clay court player (quite a bit better than on grass) and so was Fed was also excellent so that's 7 of his 9. Yeah, not buying it.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Nadal has stopped Federer winning about another 5 French Opens. So Federer would have the same number of French Opens as Borg if Nadal hadn't been in his way, not to mention the Monte Carlos and Romes. If that had happened, he'd be talked of as the clay GOAT or very close to it. Instead, Federer has 1 French Open and you downplay Federer on clay because that's where Nadal has dominated so utterly.

Whichever way you spin it, you cannot deny that 3 of the top 4 have clay as their weakest surface. Do you agree or not ?
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Tell that to Mustard. He tries to discredit Novak at any given opportunity. It's really sad to see.

No, I'm not discrediting him. He deserves full credit for what he has achieved. What I don't like is how Nadal's big wins over Djokovic are brushed aside as if they're unimportant. Before the French Open final last month, some people were placing greater importance on Beijing/WTF/Miami/Rome than on the French Open/US Open. That was utterly absurd and deserved to be pointed out.

Even now, a month later, it's happening again. Some people are acting like Djokovic had no chance in the French Open, as if he never seriously had a hope in hell. Before the match, some people were singing a different tune. It has echoes of the Nadal vs. Federer French Open finals when Federer would be talked up before the matches, but then they would act like Federer was always going to lose once it was over.

Now that Djokovic has won Wimbledon, he's going to dominate everything now in these people's minds. Hell, he could even surpass Nadal's career achievements in their minds.
 
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tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Novak is an excellent clay court player (quite a bit better than on grass) and so was Fed was also excellent so that's 7 of his 9. Yeah, not buying it.

On clay,

Novak - who has 0 FO and 2 finals. Both times did not win more than 1 set.

Federer - never won more than 1 set in any of the final. Thrashed every time.

Sorry, let us move on..

Then you have the 4th player, Andy Murray, who is yet to win a ATP 250.

So, there you go about the clay competition.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
arton37737-300x386.jpg

Baghdatis played ridiculous tennis in that 2006 AO. A much similar to Wawrinka high level in 2014 AO who beat both Nole and Nadal.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
No, I'm not discrediting him. He deserves full credit for what he has achieved. What I don't like is how Nadal's big wins over Djokovic are brushed aside as if they're unimportant. Before the French Open final last month, some people were placing greater importance on Beijing/WTF/Miami/Rome than on the French Open/US Open. That was utterly absurd and deserved to be pointed out.

Even now, a month later, it's happening again. Some people are acting like Djokovic had no chance in the French Open, as if he was never seriously had a hope in hell. Before the match, some people were singing a different tune. It has echoes of the Nadal vs. Federer French Open finals when Federer would be talked up before the matches, but then they would act like Federer was always going to lose once it was over.

Now that Djokovic has won Wimbledon, he's going to dominate everything now in these people's minds. Hell, he could even surpass Nadal's career achievements in their minds.

At least you can't say that Novak is only able to win Masters tournaments now. Sunday's victory was sweet mate. :wink:
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
Novak's weakest surface is grass (2 Wimby titles notwithstanding). Clay is his second best surface. The reason he only has 2 French finals and no wins is because he's been stopped by the greatest clay court player in history 6 times. Without Nadal, Novak has way more French finals and probably 3 French Open titles.
 

BringBackSV

Hall of Fame
On clay,

Novak - who has 0 FO and 2 finals. Both times did not win more than 1 set.

Federer - never won more than 1 set in any of the final. Thrashed every time.

Sorry, let us move on..

Then you have the 4th player, Andy Murray, who is yet to win a ATP 250.

So, there you go about the clay competition.

The fact that they can't beat Nadal on clay doesn't make it their weakest surface. Murray yes but why does he matter here?
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Seriously people. Djokovic has surpassed Nadal already.

Simply:
Hard + Grass >>>>>>>>>>>>> Clay. End of story.

Not to list all the intangibles that are all way way in Novak's favor.

I thought they are tie on grass.

Unless Nadal fans can proved that Nadal had a superior competition, then he's greater than Nole on grass.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
If you don't think it takes talent to win the FO, you don't know tennis.

If you look at history, you would see people with accomplishments on hard / grass are rated higher than those who got the same level on clay.

Grass / Wimbledon is always the pinnacle of sport. Hard is very popular. Clay is at the bottom of the pit.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
But isn't Novak your 8th favourite player Backspin? :confused:

His fans make it hard for me to like him. And he denied Federer a historic 8th Wimbledon! I believed this was Fed's best chance to add another Slam. I'm sure most Nadal fans supported Novak because they think too much about the Slam record. But Federer needed this win more than Djokovic.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
LOL.
2 weeks back Djoko fans were crying how he won't win more Slams. And now Djoko beats a 33 year old player in 5 sets in Wimbledon, and suddenly he'll surpass Nadal? :lol:

Remember, "Wawrinka will win CYGS 2014" after he won AO? :lol:
This place is totally nuts!

Chico, again with his classless post, showing why he's the most subjective poster ever. And I thought he might have improved. Something's never change!



No, I'm not discrediting him. He deserves full credit for what he has achieved. What I don't like is how Nadal's big wins over Djokovic are brushed aside as if they're unimportant. Before the French Open final last month, some people were placing greater importance on Beijing/WTF/Miami/Rome than on the French Open/US Open. That was utterly absurd and deserved to be pointed out.

Even now, a month later, it's happening again. Some people are acting like Djokovic had no chance in the French Open, as if he never seriously had a hope in hell. Before the match, some people were singing a different tune. It has echoes of the Nadal vs. Federer French Open finals when Federer would be talked up before the matches, but then they would act like Federer was always going to lose once it was over.

Now that Djokovic has won Wimbledon, he's going to dominate everything now in these people's minds. Hell, he could even surpass Nadal's career achievements in their minds.

If you don't think it takes talent to win the FO, you don't know tennis.

Novak's weakest surface is grass (2 Wimby titles notwithstanding). Clay is his second best surface. The reason he only has 2 French finals and no wins is because he's been stopped by the greatest clay court player in history 6 times. Without Nadal, Novak has way more French finals and probably 3 French Open titles.

The fact that they can't beat Nadal on clay doesn't make it their weakest surface. Murray yes but why does he matter here?

Huge-Academy-Award-Worthy-Clapping-MRW-Gif.gif
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
If you look at history, you would see people with accomplishments on hard / grass are rated higher than those who got the same level on clay.

Grass / Wimbledon is always the pinnacle of sport. Hard is very popular. Clay is at the bottom of the pit.

Clay is the most popular surface for tennis in mainland Europe and Central/South America. Hardcourt tournaments were rare before the mid 1970s.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I thought they are tie on grass.

Unless Nadal fans can proved that Nadal had a superior competition, then he's greater than Nole on grass.

I had no idea that I watched Novak come out of the tunnel 5 times on the final Sunday at Wimbledon or beat prime Federer and almost damn near do it in 2007.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
If you look at history, you would see people with accomplishments on hard / grass are rated higher than those who got the same level on clay.

Grass / Wimbledon is always the pinnacle of sport. Hard is very popular. Clay is at the bottom of the pit.

And yet Agassi, McEnroe and some other tennis experts already have Nadal ahead of Federer in the GOAT list. This Nadal guy changes everything, no?
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
The fact that they can't beat Nadal on clay doesn't make it their weakest surface. Murray yes but why does he matter here?

They have won majors everywhere else. They have not won a set in a final at FO. That shows beyond doubt that it is their least favorite surface.

Isnt Murray not top 4 ? Hasnt he won 2 non clay majors ? Isnt he a competition that Novak has to contend with ?

Stan and Delpo won hard court. No one has been able to make such breakthroughs on clay because they dont know to play clay.

when you have the 4th ranked player not winning a ATP 250, it tells it all.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
His fans make it hard for me to like him. And he denied Federer a historic 8th Wimbledon! I believed this was Fed's best chance to add another Slam. I'm sure most Nadal fans supported Novak because they think too much about the Slam record. But Federer needed this win more than Djokovic.

How do his fans make it difficult for you to like him? Novak isn't responsible for his fans' behaviour! And I think the Djokovic fans on this forum are really good but that's just my opinion.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
How do his fans make it difficult for you to like him? Novak isn't responsible for his fans' behaviour! And I think the Djokovic fans on this forum are really good but that's just my opinion.

1. Read this forum objectively.
2. Ever heard of Chico?
3. There's less arrogance in a room full of bodybuilding competitors than Novak's "fans" here, who think he's better than someone with twice his achievements already.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
I had no idea that I watched Novak come out of the tunnel 5 times on the final Sunday at Wimbledon or beat prime Federer and almost damn near do it in 2007.

I know Nole has only 3 finals, but Chico will have something to counter your point.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
I had no idea that I watched Novak come out of the tunnel 5 times on the final Sunday at Wimbledon or beat prime Federer and almost damn near do it in 2007.

True, but Novak also has some things in his favour like a better win/loss % at both Wimbledon and grass overall plus he hasn't crashed out to triple digit ranked players at the world's most prestigious tournament for three years running.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Clay is the most popular surface for tennis in mainland Europe and Central/South America. Hardcourt tournaments were rare before the mid 1970s.

We are in 2014. So, let us talk of the present.

I can give you several examples where people dont even remember clay winners.

Especially in America it is literally a 'dirt slam'.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
How do his fans make it difficult for you to like him? Novak isn't responsible for his fans' behaviour! And I think the Djokovic fans on this forum are really good but that's just my opinion.

Djokovic2011, don't take everything I said on this thread too seriously. I didn't take your posts very seriously either ;-) I can't tell if you're just messing with Rafa fans or being serious. I find this whole Novak to surpass Rafa thing too absurd to discuss at this moment. Novak has a lot more to do before we can discuss it with some seriousness. Just my opinion. And hey I don't dislike Djokovic or any player. I follow several sports and can appreciate the strengths of each player.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
They have won majors everywhere else. They have not won a set in a final at FO. That shows beyond doubt that it is their least favorite surface.

It shows how dominant Nadal is at the French Open. Trying to beat Nadal at Roland Garros is the ultimate challenge in tennis. Federer has had 5 goes, and won 4 sets in total. Djokovic has had 6 goes, and has also won 4 sets in total. Murray has failed to win a set in 2 goes. Even the one man who has managed to beat Nadal at Roland Garros (Soderling), has been beaten 3 times by Nadal at the same event.
 

BringBackSV

Hall of Fame
If you look at history, you would see people with accomplishments on hard / grass are rated higher than those who got the same level on clay.

Grass / Wimbledon is always the pinnacle of sport. Hard is very popular. Clay is at the bottom of the pit.

Grass has become the most obscure surface in the sport and while history is nice, clay is much more prevalent now. Wimbledon is held in high regard and has a lot of history but it does not have more value. Surely neither does AO or the USO. They all have their merit and complaining about clay being too tough is only a reflection of the inadequacies of whatever player you think you are defending.
 
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