Novak Djokovic's weeks at No. 1 could cause a rankings controversy

irishnadalfan1983

Hall of Fame
The season was only 3 months in before everything got halted. And Djokovic didn't look anything close to invincible at ATP Cup, Melbourne nor Dubai. He's looking like an aging player as compared to prior seasons.
Agreed - Nole has looked great last 3 months but Rafa looked like number one previous 3/4 months.....Rafa has finished year end number 2 out of last 3 years - to suggest it would have being automatic Nole hangs onto number 1 until end of year is a bit presumptuous....There are other players too.....

Not really sure what fairest solution is.....
 

PeoplesChamp

Hall of Fame
Fed wins either way.

One can assume all day long that Djokovic would have held on to the top spot, but there's no way of absolutely knowing that. Not with his recent record at IW/Miami and Nadal not having a go on clay. I'd say it's pretty arrogant in fact.
 
IMO, Djokovic is the biggest loser with this extended break.
He already had 500p. more than Nadal after Dubaï and had pretty much nothing to defend in Indian Wells, Miami and Monte Carlo. Nadal had 2 SF in IW and MC. He was 99% sure to stay #1 until Madrid minumum. With his undefeated start of season (and knowing Nadal wasn't going to play Miami anyway) something tells me the gap between Djokovic and Nadal would have majorly increased until Madrid, and his #1 ranking was safe until Wimbledon.
Now the ranking will be frozen. His #1 weeks won't be added and who knows when tennis will be back. Let's admit no tennis and ranking frozen until January 2021. He will be forced to achieve the same start of season if he wants to stay #1.
If Wimbledon is cancelled whereas the French Open is played in September, Djokovic will be the biggest loser as well.
I guess we'll never know what WOULD have happened but seeing the current dynamic in the ATP cup, AO and Dubaï, to me it's clear Djokovic is the one who's losing the most.
 
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RaulRamirez

Hall of Fame
There's probably no perfectly fair way (to everyone) to do this, or at least, I haven't heard it or thought of it.

Obviously, Roger, Novak and Pete are in the same vicinity as far as weeks are concerned, and Roger and Novak are tied, of course, for years at #1.

As I've always..for a couple years, anyway ...thought and said, the careers of each of The Big 3 are different, but very comparable in their overall mastery. A minor difference, or one prevailing on one stat (perhaps, on a technicality, one way or another) really doesn't change that overall dynamic.

Most importantly, I (and we, I presume) miss both watching and playing tennis now...and lots of other things...
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
The same way federer gains advantage in slam count by not having Djokovic or Nadal play further slams due to this Corona Virus. It can't work both ways.

Let's say if we are to miss grandslams and next gen start winning next year, it's an year lost for both Nadal and Djokovic as they are aging with no opportunity given to them to win slams while they still have a chance at it.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
The same way federer gains advantage in slam count by not having Djokovic or Nadal play further slams due to this Corona Virus. It can't work both ways.

Let's say if we are to miss grandslams and next gen start winning next year, it's an year lost for both Nadal and Djokovic as they are aging with no opportunity given to them to win slams while they still have a chance at it.
Federer is still an active player so he lost chances too, therefore it evens out.
 

The Guru

Professional
Federer is still an active player so he lost chances too, therefore it evens out.
That's like saying Coric missed out in his chances too. Obviously, Nadal and Djokovic would have been much more likely to win slam(s) this year should they all be cancelled. Fed only really had/has a small shot at Wimbledon. He's got basically no shot at the USO or FO
 
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KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
That's like saying Coric missed out in his chances too. Obviously, Nadal and Djokovic would have been much more likely to win slam(s) this year should they all be cancelled. Fed only really had/has a small shot at Wimbledon. He's got basically no shot at the USO or FO
Djokovic and Nadal were objectively a lot more likely to win a slam this year than Federer though.
More favoured but all still due to compete so it’s an even playing field.
 

BGod

Legend
It would appear the weight of the controversy is predicated on time the rankings un-freeze.

Right now it seems the whole season is wiped, let's say it starts again with the AO next year and Novak loses enough points to where Nadal takes over. One could legitimately argue Novak was likely to get a bunch of weeks from IW-WMB and now Nadal would be piling them up. On the flip-side if the season returned with the FO but clay masters points were dropped and Nadal defended the French, neither won Wimbledon but Novak remained #1 and carried the year through because he didn't lose as many points from un-played tournaments.

I just don't see any rosy way this goes UNLESS we coincidentally happen to start up the 2021 season with IW.
 

Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
Federer is still an active player so he lost chances too, therefore it evens out.
But roger doesn't really stand a chance when Djokovic and Nadal are kicking the field at this rate. Do you agree? You really think he has a fair chance to win RG, Wimbledon and USopen ?
 

SpaceAce42

Banned
But roger doesn't really stand a chance when Djokovic and Nadal are kicking the field at this rate. Do you agree? You really think he has a fair chance to win RG, Wimbledon and USopen ?
yes ALL of the big 3 always have a chance in every tourney they're in, that's why they're GOATS.
 

Kozzy

Semi-Pro
who cares? I just hope there's a pro tennis tour around after all this is done. Djokovic can have his weeks at No. 1 if that happens.
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
"some will still bristle at the idea of Djokovic getting credit for remaining No. 1 at a time when nobody can challenge him."

The other players are also retaining their rankings unchallenged. There's a curious anti-Djokovic angle to the article. He's going to be singled out because he has a 1 by his name I guess.
 

fox

Rookie
How can you count him these weeks while nobody loses points and gains points or anything? So we freeze the rankings just with small exception of counting Djokovic weeks as no 1 nobody knows why?
 
They were. Novak Djokovic remains on 282 weeks, behind Sampras (286) and Federer (310).
Right on both accounts:
1. Djokovic must stay on 282 weeks and not gain more during the freeze.
2. He must be credited with 282, not 281. He was on 281 on the week before Indian Wells began. He was guaranteed the spot on the Monday during Indian Wells. The 282nd week must count - some wiki pages aren’t counting it, which is unfair.
 
???

How does he not deserve it in that scenario? He could become number 1 again by sweeping Wimbledon , Cincy, USO, Shanghai, YEC.

we only have 33-34 year olds as number 1 because no one aged 18-30 can challenge them.
Federer is not yet retired so this virus is costing him chances too.
18! Bah. 32 > 18.
 

Wander

Professional
Here's the thing. If they do it so that the current points will only start to drop over the 12 months that follow after play restarts and the rankings are unfrozen, Djokovic will continue to pile on those weeks at #1 as he would have. Where's the problem?

The only "unfairness" is that Djokovic right now was in dominant form and might not be when play continues but that is a separate issue and applies to the players closest to him in the rankings. Roger, Rafa are not getting any younger.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Here's the thing. If they do it so that the current points will only start to drop over the 12 months that follow after play restarts and the rankings are unfrozen, Djokovic will continue to pile on those weeks at #1 as he would have. Where's the problem?

The only "unfairness" is that Djokovic right now was in dominant form and might not be when play continues but that is a separate issue and applies to the players closest to him in the rankings. Roger, Rafa are not getting any younger.
LOL at dominant form. Dude was never dominant. He was scraping by the skin of his teeth in many matches. He's nothing close to the dominance of 2011. He's just been lucky with the clown era.
 

Wander

Professional
LOL at dominant form. Dude was never dominant. He was scraping by the skin of his teeth in many matches. He's nothing close to the dominance of 2011. He's just been lucky with the clown era.
Well yeah it is the worst era of all time, but that's besides the point. By dominant I mean that he was probably a favourite to at least get to the final at both Indian Wells and Miami and then to hold on to the #1 ranking at least until Wimbledon.

Point is that he will hold on to the ranking just the same when play does continue.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Well yeah it is the worst era of all time, but that's besides the point. By dominant I mean that he was probably a favourite to at least get to the final at both Indian Wells and Miami and then to hold on to the #1 ranking at least until Wimbledon.

Point is that he will hold on to the ranking just the same when play does continue.
Djokovic got lucky as hell in many matches in every tournament he's played this season. ATP Cup, Melbourne and Dubai. He was staring defeat in the face in all three tournaments. I doubt he was a sure bet to win either of Indian Wells or Miami. Especially when you look at last season where he went completely flat during the Spring hardcourts. People are acting like he's still 25. He's relying on his experience and guile to get him through but his youth is gone. He's not the same player he used to be. He's getting old.
 

vex

Hall of Fame
First off none of that is gonna matter because Djokovic is just gonna smash Fed’s record next year. The only thing that denying Djoker the freeze weeks does is keep the record from being completely obliterated like it was going to be.

If by some Fed miracle Djokovic gets hit by a bus and doesn’t break next year, Fed’s record will just have an asterisk bc Djoker was clearly steaming towards breaking it.

The same goes for the slam count. I don’t get why any Fed fan is celebrating the cancellation of RG’19. You should be rooting for it to be played in the fall and Rafa to be upset. Any other outcome means a big old asterisk on 20.
 

zep

Hall of Fame
I think now if Federer gets to keep the record it should always come with a *. Djokovic was going to cross him without corona. He should still be able to do it though.
 
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PeoplesChamp

Hall of Fame
Rumor has it that Djokovic wants to call off the season while Fedal wants to play it by ear. If that's the case, there will be no room for crying over spilled milk for Djokovic fans and Fed haters.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
First off none of that is gonna matter because Djokovic is just gonna smash Fed’s record next year. The only thing that denying Djoker the freeze weeks does is keep the record from being completely obliterated like it was going to be.

If by some Fed miracle Djokovic gets hit by a bus and doesn’t break next year, Fed’s record will just have an asterisk bc Djoker was clearly steaming towards breaking it.

The same goes for the slam count. I don’t get why any Fed fan is celebrating the cancellation of RG’19. You should be rooting for it to be played in the fall and Rafa to be upset. Any other outcome means a big old asterisk on 20.
You sure love your asteriks, vex!!! :-D :-D
 
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Mike Sams

Legend
I think now if Federer gets to keep the record it should always come with a *. Djokovic was going to cross him without corona. He should still be able to do it though.
I'm sure Djokovic will get the weeks at #1 record. What matters most of all is the Slam record.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Rumor has it that Djokovic wants to call off the season while Fedal wants to play it by ear. If that's the case, there will be no room for crying over spilled milk for Djokovic fans and Fed haters.
That's interesting. Seems like Djokovic has fully gone into family-mode now since the pandemic started and he doesn't have the fire or passion to get back into hard training. Surprising attitude for a guy who's on the hunt. He might've relaxed a bit too much during this off-time.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Your ignorance is cute. This is just delaying the inevitable. Once tennis resumes, Federer will lose both his slam and weeks at No. 1 records.
That seems likely. But by the time tennis resumes we are looking at a Djokodal being nearly 34-35 years old... “smashing” the records in declined form.
 

PeoplesChamp

Hall of Fame
That's interesting. Seems like Djokovic has fully gone into family-mode now since the pandemic started and he doesn't have the fire or passion to get back into hard training. Surprising attitude for a guy who's on the hunt. He might've relaxed a bit too much during this off-time.
Yes it is interesting. You'd think Djokovic would want to play with the momentum he supposedly had. Devastating news for Djokfan/ Fed hater asterisk seekers. Kind of kills their plans lol.
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, a rumor will manage to paint 18-0 as something different from momentum. :D
That's interesting. Seems like Djokovic has fully gone into family-mode now since the pandemic started and he doesn't have the fire or passion to get back into hard training. Surprising attitude for a guy who's on the hunt. He might've relaxed a bit too much during this off-time.
So from a couple of social media posts of a well known family man spending time with his family when plenty are being isolated at home, you concluded that he lost fire for hard training? More of a wish from your part than anything else.
 

PeoplesChamp

Hall of Fame
According to several sources, there is not the same agreement among the top male players. Novak Djokovic, president of the ATP's Player Council, is said to be in favour of a more decisive lockdown for the season.

Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer — whose Laver Cup project is likely to have to find a new date due to the abrupt French Open switch to September — are counselling a more wait-and-see approach.


 
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ScottleeSV

Professional
If you're getting 'weeks' added on for inactive weeks on tour you're basically getting something for nothing, an unfair advantage.

What next? Give Novak his 6th Wimbledon because he's defending champion?

The rankings will likely stay frozen and rightly so.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Right on both accounts:
1. Djokovic must stay on 282 weeks and not gain more during the freeze.
2. He must be credited with 282, not 281. He was on 281 on the week before Indian Wells began. He was guaranteed the spot on the Monday during Indian Wells. The 282nd week must count - some wiki pages aren’t counting it, which is unfair.
I understand your concerns, but Wikipedia must be based on realiable sources, it is part of its internal policy. Without official confirmation from the ATP no Wikipedia page could list Djokovic as having 282 weeks as #1. It has nothing to do with it being fair or unfair, it is just Wikipedia's internal policy of being based on reliable sources. As soon as Djokovic got his 282th week confirmed by the ATP, Wikipedia listed Djokovic as having 282 weeks as #1.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Well tennis is boring as sh*t with Djokovic at the top in this mug era of weaklings and clowns all playing on slow identical surfaces.
If it's boring with one baseliner, it'll be just as boring with Nadal flailing away mindlessly! :sneaky:
 
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Mike Sams

Legend
Tennis with Djokovic at the top is spectacular, while slow surfaces are more fun than fast ones. :whistle:

He couldn't win USO until they slowed the surfaces and fattened up the balls so gazelles like him could chase everything down. It's what killed the likes of Del Potro and Berdych while the baseline clowns could have a field day retrieving everything. Good to see tennis appeals to 65+ crowds as they're the only ones with the attention span to watch it.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
How will history judge Djokovic if the season is wiped and he finishes his career 1 slam and a few weeks short of Federer?
He's got at least 1 or 2 years left to set the Slam record. Although looking at his last 3-4 Slam outings, he's looked nothing close to unbeatable and has been close to losing. The only thing helping him is the weak gen and pretenders who aren't producing big tennis in the Slams. But that could change in the next season. Who do you think will retire with the Slam record and what do you estimate the count to be when all is done among the big 3?
 

weakera

Legend
He's got at least 1 or 2 years left to set the Slam record. Although looking at his last 3-4 Slam outings, he's looked nothing close to unbeatable and has been close to losing. The only thing helping him is the weak gen and pretenders who aren't producing big tennis in the Slams. But that could change in the next season. Who do you think will retire with the Slam record and what do you estimate the count to be when all is done among the big 3?
I have no idea what will happen. I'm just wondering how history would judge Djokovic in that scenario.

Unfortunately for Djokovic in that scenario, history *usually* forgets the context and looks at the numbers.
 

Mike Sams

Legend
I have no idea what will happen. I'm just wondering how history would judge Djokovic in that scenario.

Unfortunately for Djokovic in that scenario, history *usually* forgets the context and looks at the numbers.
Yup. That's how it will be. The final number is all that anyone pays attention to. Especially 10-20 years from now.
 
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