Novak ia 7 match wins away from becoming GOAT

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
People, Nadal is K2 and Mount Everest above anyone on clay. It's 99.9999 percent inevitable. I know it sucks but that's it.
Yup, I can't see Djoko winning RG 2021 if Nadal is healthy. Djoko does very well at AO because it's fast and he likes it that way. Nadal is the opposite and likes RG because it's slow and bouncy. Each surface compliments their game perfectly. Djoko does very well at AO, but Nadal does extremely well at RG.
 

Krish872007

G.O.A.T.
I would think 3 more Slam wins makes him the widely accepted greatest of this era. Will be difficult to get other fanbases to acknowledge it but even they would most likely at that point (assuming the other 2 stay exactly where they are right now and don't add any more).

To occupy a completely unique "GOAT" platform - these 3 extra Slam wins would probably need to be RG 2021, Wimbledon 2021 and US 2021
 

clout

Hall of Fame
Tbh I don’t know if Djokovic can win RG anymore unless the draw blows open.

Nadal clearly has the edge over him there and even Thiem has now become a matchup problem for him on the dirt. Not to mention Stefanos who also plays very well on clay
 

CYGS

Legend
The only way I see that happening is Thiem taking out Nadal before the final.

But I would like him and his team to work on this possibility.
 
The only way I see that happening is Thiem taking out Nadal before the final.

But I would like him and his team to work on this possibility.
I feel Novak should be a fox here. Sort of weigh up the clay season depending how things are going. If Rafa is 100% fit and in unstoppable form then just bow out earlier and save yourself for Wimbledon, olympics and us open.

However, if Rafa was to suffer an injury, lose form or face a tough FO draw then maybe he can reassess and go all out. I just don’t want him wasting unnecessary energy by grinding through just to lose to nadal in the final and maybe risk injury or burnt out for the upcoming majors he has bigger chances to win.
 

CYGS

Legend
I feel Novak should be a fox here. Sort of weigh up the clay season depending how things are going. If Rafa is 100% fit and in unstoppable form then just bow out earlier and save yourself for Wimbledon, olympics and us open.

However, if Rafa was to suffer an injury, lose form or face a tough FO draw then maybe he can reassess and go all out. I just don’t want him wasting unnecessary energy by grinding through just to lose to nadal in the final and maybe risk injury or burnt out for the upcoming majors he has bigger chances to win.
I actually prefer him to focus on majors and olympics this year, everything else is optional. Not a fan of skipping a slam for the other, though it might seem it had worked for Federer.
 
I actually prefer him to focus on majors and olympics this year, everything else is optional. Not a fan of skipping a slam for the other, though it might seem it had worked for Federer.
True I agree with you. As you never know what can happen. Something could happen to Rafa and Novak would kick himself if he wasn’t there to try take advantage. I think he needs to cut down his schedule of the masters tournaments then but still go all out for majors and olympics but the french can be more see how things go type thing. We will see.
 

Krish872007

G.O.A.T.
I feel Novak should be a fox here. Sort of weigh up the clay season depending how things are going. If Rafa is 100% fit and in unstoppable form then just bow out earlier and save yourself for Wimbledon, olympics and us open.

However, if Rafa was to suffer an injury, lose form or face a tough FO draw then maybe he can reassess and go all out. I just don’t want him wasting unnecessary energy by grinding through just to lose to nadal in the final and maybe risk injury or burnt out for the upcoming majors he has bigger chances to win.
I don't know if makes sense to use the rest of the clay season as a barometer for the French - when it comes to Nadal, events like Rome have no relevance so there's no way of telling how he'll play during the Slam. Also waiting until the draw comes out leaves it too late.

Decision should ideally be taken up front by looking at the clay season and the entire field as a whole. What are the chances of doing well? Does he need to play to keep ranking? How many people could realistically beat him at RG (outside of Nadal)?
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
No he doesn't. The facts is if he gets within a slam of either one and has all those other things in favour such as leading h2h's, most weeks and years as No1 and more Masters titles that more than compensates.
No it does not. For years Slams were the determining factor. Nobody will say the guy 3rd on list of slams is GOAT. No chance. Plus Nadal and Federer have more titles as well overall.
 

Zebrev

Hall of Fame
People, Nadal is K2 and Mount Everest above anyone on clay. It's 99.9999 percent inevitable. I know it sucks but that's it.
He played well in the final, but I wouldn't go that far.

Problem is, Nadal and Thiem are uncannily always placed in opposite halves of the draw. If Rafa had to play Novak and Thiem back 2 back, then it really would test him, but it'll never happe in a million years.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
He played well in the final, but I wouldn't go that far.

Problem is, Nadal and Thiem are uncannily always placed in opposite halves of the draw. If Rafa had to play Novak and Thiem back 2 back, then it really would test him, but it'll never happe in a million years.
Thiem was in same half as Nadal last year!!
 

Rafa4LifeEver

Professional
He played well in the final, but I wouldn't go that far.

Problem is, Nadal and Thiem are uncannily always placed in opposite halves of the draw. If Rafa had to play Novak and Thiem back 2 back, then it really would test him, but it'll never happe in a million years.
It could have happened last year, sir. But Diego Schwartzman had other ideas.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
At night, it'd be even more difficult for thiem to hit past Nadal's defense and consistency.
If a player can get sets off Nadal that would be a start. Djokovic needs to avoid bagels against Nadal on clay.
Thiem routinely gets butchered by Nadal.
Federer has been the most competitive v Nadal in recent years at RG!! He actually challenged Rafa for three sets last time they played.
 

Krish872007

G.O.A.T.
No it does not. For years Slams were the determining factor. Nobody will say the guy 3rd on list of slams is GOAT. No chance. Plus Nadal and Federer have more titles as well overall.
Graf won the Grand Slam on the women's side (in fact the "Golden" Grand Slam) and there are plenty of people making the case for her as well.
In fact her Grand Slam is the reason she occupies such an elevated platform. Though of course Margaret Court did it as well, so that puts her ahead.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
Graf won the Grand Slam on the women's side (in fact the "Golden" Grand Slam) and there are plenty of people making the case for her as well.
In fact her Grand Slam is the reason she occupies such an elevated platform
Yes nobody in the open era has done that on the mens side.
 

Rafa4LifeEver

Professional
If a player can get sets off Nadal that would be a start. Djokovic needs to avoid bagels against Nadal on clay.
Thiem routinely gets butchered by Nadal.
Federer has been the most competitive v Nadal in recent years at RG!! He actually challenged Rafa for three sets last time they played.
In recent years, I think David Goffin and Diego Schwartzman were more competitive with the warrior than anyone, Diego with a real chance to upset the Nadal in 2018 (it was a scary first half of the match for us, rafa fans).
About roger, I believe he'd not have taken more than a set in 2019 RG SF even if the conditions weren't so windy; yes he'd have made the score much closer; but Rafa would've ultimately prevailed in 4 sets 7-5 6-7 6-4 6-3 something
 

Hitman

Legend
Big IF that Novak wins RG, since I put Nadal, Thiem and maybe a few others above him on clay now, but IF he does it, then the discussion about him being GOAT will certainly catch momentum.
 

Checkmate

Hall of Fame
He played well in the final, but I wouldn't go that far.

Problem is, Nadal and Thiem are uncannily always placed in opposite halves of the draw. If Rafa had to play Novak and Thiem back 2 back, then it really would test him, but it'll never happe in a million years.
One thing I have realised with last year's FO and this year's AO is that these guys have a couple of gears they don't show till the final.

They have much more up their sleeves which the conversations and the predictions don't take it into account, IMO
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
Djokovic has NCYGS and in this case DCGS and weeks at number 1 (as Graf over Serena) so yes he’s arguably GOAT, but agreed he needs to reach 20 to win the argument.
NCYGS is less impressive than The Nadal Surface Slam in 2010. Graf 1988 is the greatest achievement in tennis. Nothing comes close.
Weeks at no.1 is irrelevant as nobody remembers that. I have no clue how many weeks Graf was no.1 for or Serena or Navratilova or Evert. Without u looking it up i bet u dont. I know their major counts.
FO2020 was hyped up as thE GOAT Decider. When Nadal won the pundits went quiet and still are. New metrics are being invented.
Slams are the ultimate test. Whoever ends top of slam leaderboard is GOAT.
 
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