Novak is more dominant against Nadal on hard than Nadal is dominant against him on clay

beard

Legend
Clay... Nadal is 19:8... 70%
Hard... Novak is 20:7... 74%

:unsure:


Is Novak that good at hard, or Nadal is not that good on clay? Or is Nadal actually that bad on hard and Novak that good on clay?


Anyway, another great stat for The Goat...
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Clay... Nadal is 19:8... 70%
Hard... Novak is 20:7... 74%

:unsure:


Is Novak that good at hard, or Nadal is not that good on clay? Or is Nadal actually that bad on hard and Novak that good on clay?


Anyway, another great stat for The Goat...

Here you go OP. Kick back and enjoy this thread!

 
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Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Clay... Nadal is 19:8... 70%
Hard... Novak is 20:7... 74%

:unsure:


Is Novak that good at hard, or Nadal is not that good on clay? Or is Nadal actually that bad on hard and Novak that good on clay?


Anyway, another great stat for The Goat...
Djokovic underperforms his average win% by 10% on HC and 50% on clay.

Nadal underperforms his average win% by 21% on clay and by 52% on HC.

In my opinion it's a combination of

1. Djokovic is that good on clay
2. The matchup does favor Djokovic on relatively speaking
3. Nadal is not that great on HC.
 

El_Yotamo

Hall of Fame
Djokovic is a very good clay courter and has always been the most difficult player for Nadal to beat on HC since 2007. I think 2015-16 definitely has a hand in the way the stats look but it is well deserved by Novak. There's no point trying to make this an anti-Nadal point though, we're talking about a 1-match difference over a nearly 15 year long rivalry...
 

pj80

Hall of Fame
Clay... Nadal is 19:8... 70%
Hard... Novak is 20:7... 74%

:unsure:


Is Novak that good at hard, or Nadal is not that good on clay? Or is Nadal actually that bad on hard and Novak that good on clay?


Anyway, another great stat for The Goat...
more interesting, they played on each others surface 27 times
 

Rago

Hall of Fame
Just shows what a joke the H2H statistic is. The hard court season is more than twice as long compared to clay and yet, the number of meetings on both surfaces between these guys is the same.
 

stray_cat

New User
On clay (Rafa - Novak):
2006-2010: 9-0, 3-0 RG
2011-2015: 5-6, 3-1 RG
2016-2021: 5-2, 1-1 RG

On hard (Novak - Rafa):
2006-2010: 7-5, 0-1 US open
2011-2015: 9-2, 2-1 AO, US open
2016-2021: 4-0, 1-0 AO

Last time Rafa won Novak on hard was summer 8 years ago.

Last time Novak won Rafa on clay was two weeks ago.
 
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Whisper

Rookie
Anyway, another great stat for The Goat...
Nadal has beaten Djoker in 2 USO finals in routine 4 setters. Not only has Nadal never lost in his 13 FO finals, he has never been extended to 5 sets. Nadal has no competition when discussing surface dominance, he’s in a tier all by himself. Novak has some nice stats too, but nothing that will stand forever like Rafa’s FO record.
 

beard

Legend
Nadal has beaten Djoker in 2 USO finals in routine 4 setters. Not only has Nadal never lost in his 13 FO finals, he has never been extended to 5 sets. Nadal has no competition when discussing surface dominance, he’s in a tier all by himself. Novak has some nice stats too, but nothing that will stand forever like Rafa’s FO record.
So, 70%>74% :unsure:
 
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Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
1. Nadal has really been a punching bag on HC for any genuinely good player on that surface for years now, minus maybe the US Open where they’ve not met since 2013. He’s simply not that good there anymore.

2. The matchup favors Djokovic a little, both in terms of rally dynamics and timing (less so the latter).

3. Djokovic is just great on clay as a whole and these numbers really speak to that.
 

Tennisfan339

Professional
Nobody talks about ATP finals, but I think it's a huge hole in Nadal's career. It's the 5th most important tournament and many consider it as a 5th Major. Federer and Djokovic have each won it 5 or 6 times, Nadal 0.
He has also never won 3 important HC Masters1000... Miami, Bercy and Shanghaï (although he got Madrid on HC in 2005) and only 1 Cincinnati, whereas Djokovic already won all 3 clay Masters1000 twice or more.

I also agree that the H2H between them is quite biased if we look at the surfaces. The HC season is thrice longer than the clay season but they now have 27 matchs on each surface. They didn't even meet on HC between IW 2016 and AO2019, and outside of the ATP cup match, they haven't met since that AO final 3 years ago. They already played 6x on clay in the same time period. Are they ever gonna meet again in a big HC Slam or M1000 final?
 

Jai

Professional
Nobody talks about ATP finals, but I think it's a huge hole in Nadal's career. It's the 5th most important tournament and many consider it as a 5th Major. Federer and Djokovic have each won it 5 or 6 times, Nadal 0.
He has also never won 3 important HC Masters1000... Miami, Bercy and Shanghaï (although he got Madrid on HC in 2005) and only 1 Cincinnati, whereas Djokovic already won all 3 clay Masters1000 twice or more.

I also agree that the H2H between them is quite biased if we look at the surfaces. The HC season is thrice longer than the clay season but they now have 27 matchs on each surface. They didn't even meet on HC between IW 2016 and AO2019, and outside of the ATP cup match, they haven't met since that AO final 3 years ago. They already played 6x on clay in the same time period. Are they ever gonna meet again in a big HC Slam or M1000 final?
Very true. The pity is that discussions on TTW get so partisan, they encourage a few noted, notorious trolls instead of a civil discussion. I mean, as a fan of BOTH Rafa and Novak , though I will ofc admit I root more for the latter, I get really taken aback by the through intellectual dishonesty on display by some "fans". Their focus seems more to hate Novak than to root for their champ.

One Olympic gold medal is often cited as being more valuable than all tour final titles. This is nuts. I mean, I can even understand claims that a single gold is worth more than ONE year end tournament title (even that is debatable). But to claim it outweighs 5 titles, is crazy.

Another random statement thrown about is claiming a slam h2h record of 10--7 is "dominating" or "owning" the slams. This is bunkum. There is a very clear skew, 7--2 in Rafa's favour in Just one slam, 5--3 in the others in Novak's favour. This just does not qualify as a lopsided "dominance" by Rafa at the slams at all.

And as you have rightly pointed out above, the results do show that Novak is to Rafa on hard courts what Rafa is to Novak on clay. And it could be said, relatively more successful on that surface, too!
 
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StannisTheMannis

Hall of Fame
I think it’s due to Nadal being a more fluctuating player in terms of his level. Novak is the steadiest guy through 5 sets and 6-7 matches I’ve ever seen.
 
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beard

Legend
I’m talking about stats that are so dominant they will last forever. Not only have I already forgotten what this 74% > 70% thread is about about, I don’t think I ever knew or cared?
So you don't care about topic but post what you want? Can you give us something about your childhood?
 
I think 2 USO's going through Novak vs 1 RG going through Nadal makes it more favorable to Nadal I guess.

But Novak on clay >> Nadal on grass
 
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ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
I think 2 USO's going through Novak vs 1 RG going through Nadal makes it more favorable to Nadal I guess.

But Novak on clay >> Nadal on grass
That's a good point.Both have 2 titles at the slams on the respective surfaces, but Novak hasn't lost at RG before QF since the end of Cretaceous lol, plus he also has more SF and F than Nadal at Wimbledon.
 

InsideOut900

Hall of Fame
Just shows what a joke the H2H statistic is. The hard court season is more than twice as long compared to clay and yet, the number of meetings on both surfaces between these guys is the same.
Nadal actually has 26 clay Masters, as many as Djokovic has on HCs. And has 13 RGs, while Djoko has 12 HC Slams.

So Nadal has double the consistency on clay, so it's justfied they have 27 meetings on clay and 27 on HCs.

Conversely, Djokovic has 18 clay Masters finals with 10 titles, while Nadal has 17 HC Masters finals with 10 wins, so on the lower spectrum their are the same too.

Nadal is twice as good on clay compared to Djokovic on HCs and twice as bad on HCs compared to Djokovic on clay so the H2H is evened out by that, with the H2H only being separated by the recent win by Novak. The numbers may not be perfect if we start branching into QFs and SFs, but grossly speaking they are where they should be.
 
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Rafa4LifeEver

Hall of Fame
Clay... Nadal is 19:8... 70%
Hard... Novak is 20:7... 74%

:unsure:


Is Novak that good at hard, or Nadal is not that good on clay? Or is Nadal actually that bad on hard and Novak that good on clay?


Anyway, another great stat for The Goat...
Nole had 2015-16 to claim 3 clay victories over rafa, otoh Rafa never had such time in nole's bad years to do so.
 
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