Novak's Greatness

GhostOfNKDM

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
Everyone marvels at his mental resilience during matches.

To me it's his improvements and overcoming adversity over the years. I haven't witnessed any other player in my lifetime undergo so many changes and come out stronger.

Early losses at the slams, diet, racket change, coaching, marital issues (alleged), Pepe, injury, change in service motion, Adria tour, PTPA drama, Covid, US open default, RG loss...

and I'm sure I missed a few...

Any one of these alone could have sunk another player's career

Stefanki messed with Roddick's FH motion and it was done. Marty Fish tried some low carb weight loss **** and incurred arrhythmia... I mean the examples are countless.

What do you think? Am I exaggerating?
 
Ironically this came up as I was contemplating what Roger could've done better in another thread and the most popular answer was change racquet sooner.

If that one change alone was so hard, it struck me how much Novak has had happen in his career

Grudging respect from this Fed fan.
 
GhostOfNKDM said:
Early losses at the slams, diet, racket change, coaching, marital issues (alleged), Pepe, injury, change in service motion, Adria tour, PTPA drama, Covid, US open default, RG loss...
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Wow just by reading this paragraph makes me want to root against him even more… lol
 
GhostOfNKDM said:
Everyone marvels at his mental resilience during matches.

To me it's his improvements and overcoming adversity over the years. I haven't witnessed any other player in my lifetime undergo so many changes and come out stronger.

Early losses at the slams, diet, racket change, coaching, marital issues (alleged), Pepe, injury, change in service motion, Adria tour, PTPA drama, Covid, US open default, RG loss...

and I'm sure I missed a few...

Any one of these alone could have sunk another player's career

Stefanki messed with Roddick's FH motion and it was done. Marty Fish tried some low carb weight loss **** and incurred arrhythmia... I mean the examples are countless.

What do you think? Am I exaggerating?
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It wasn't Stefanski that ruined Roddick's FH. It was Dean Goldfine.
 
https://www.****************.com/attachments/pete-sampras-and-tim-gullikson-jpg.79885/

b64c48d4e520249ff4ff90e3e8b0e7f2
 
tonylg said:
pete-sampras-and-tim-gullikson-jpg.79885


b64c48d4e520249ff4ff90e3e8b0e7f2
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Not saying other players haven't been through tough situations.

Donno if Roger would be the man today without the unfortunate passing of Peter Carter.

Just the number if things that can throw off a tennis player - especially when it come to things like strokes, equipment and such - it seems Djokovic has had more than his share of eventful things.
 
GhostOfNKDM said:
Not saying other players haven't been through tough situations.

Donno if Roger would be the man today without the unfortunate passing of Peter Carter.

Just the number if things that can throw off a tennis player - especially when it come to things like strokes, equipment and such - it seems Djokovic has had more than his share of eventful things.
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Most of ********'s issues have been a product of his own actions. Both Sampras and Federer had health issues, Sampras in particular. It's their choice that Pete and Rog weren't cheating on their wives (F*** me, why would Sampras?). Sampras sticking to the PS85 and gut probably hurt him more than many realise. And they all suffered heart breaking losses and had some luck too.
 
tonylg said:
Most of ********'s issues have been a product of his own actions. Both Sampras and Federer had health issues, Sampras in particular. It's their choice that Pete and Rog weren't cheating on their wives (F*** me, why would Sampras?). Sampras sticking to the PS85 and gut probably hurt him more than many realise. And they all suffered heart breaking losses and had some luck too.
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Not whitewashing his issues here. You can check my post history as to what I think of his shenanigans.

Looking at it here purely from the perspective of overcoming negative situations, self wrought or otherwise.
 
We laugh at his new age posturing about energy pyramids and the anti vax/Adria tour stuff but I seriously think he wouldn’t be half the player without the hard headedness. To do truly great things you must be at least a little bit irrational.

What kind of kid believes he will actually be #1 in the world at anything? What 20 year old faces World #1 Federer who has won 11 of the past 15 slams and has the nerve to dictate rallies and win a TB with the match on the line? There is an inner craziness to Djokovic that crosses the path from the logical, sensible dialogue of most people to the truly absurd. After a point, the most helpful mindset is not the most truthful one, it is the one that convinces you that you will succeed. It was pure defiance to hit the 2010 USO return he did on match point and he’s done it over and over again in his career. Djokovic may say and do unexplainable or dumb things but the irrationality and stubbornness is an integral part of his success, not a detriment.

This is of course why Michael Jordan is known as a bad human being and many top athletes are known as miserable people with family issues. Djokovic is certainly the most psychotic at his core about winning and it’s helped him.
 
Kralingen said:
We laugh at his new age posturing about energy pyramids and the anti vax/Adria tour stuff but I seriously think he wouldn’t be half the player without the hard headedness. To do truly great things you must be at least a little bit irrational.

What kind of kid believes he will actually be #1 in the world at anything? What 20 year old faces World #1 Federer who has won 11 of the past 15 slams and has the nerve to dictate rallies and win a TB with the match on the line? There is an inner craziness to Djokovic that crosses the path from the logical, sensible dialogue of most people to the truly absurd. After a point, the most helpful mindset is not the most truthful one, it is the one that convinces you that you will succeed. It was pure defiance to hit the 2010 USO return he did on match point and he’s done it over and over again in his career. Djokovic may say and do unexplainable or dumb things but the irrationality and stubbornness is an integral part of his success, not a detriment.

This is of course why Michael Jordan is known as a bad human being and many top athletes are known as miserable people with family issues. Djokovic is certainly the most psychotic at his core about winning and it’s helped him.
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Correct. His victim mentality is also enhanced by exaggerating or just plain imagining challenges. It inflates the "me against the world" outlook that seems to fuel him. As much as he so dearly wants to be loved, it probably would have been very detrimental to his career.
 
Kralingen said:
We laugh at his new age posturing about energy pyramids and the anti vax/Adria tour stuff but I seriously think he wouldn’t be half the player without the hard headedness. To do truly great things you must be at least a little bit irrational.

What kind of kid believes he will actually be #1 in the world at anything? What 20 year old faces World #1 Federer who has won 11 of the past 15 slams and has the nerve to dictate rallies and win a TB with the match on the line? There is an inner craziness to Djokovic that crosses the path from the logical, sensible dialogue of most people to the truly absurd. After a point, the most helpful mindset is not the most truthful one, it is the one that convinces you that you will succeed. It was pure defiance to hit the 2010 USO return he did on match point and he’s done it over and over again in his career. Djokovic may say and do unexplainable or dumb things but the irrationality and stubbornness is an integral part of his success, not a detriment.

This is of course why Michael Jordan is known as a bad human being and many top athletes are known as miserable people with family issues. Djokovic is certainly the most psychotic at his core about winning and it’s helped him.
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This mental angle is true, 'fake it till you make it'has been a mantra for many successful people.

But I also think it sells his talent, intelligence and humility (!) short.

Especially looking at technical changes to the game.

He's obviously not averse to listening to good advice - an aspect many narcissists who 'believe' in their innate greatness - don't

He was able to execute these changes - which shows talent

And he has managed to keep the process of improvment going across various areas of his game - fitness, technique, coaching etc, which shows a highly intelligent player.
 
tonylg said:
Correct. His victim mentality is also enhanced by exaggerating or just plain imagining challenges. It inflates the "me against the world" outlook that seems to fuel him. As much as he so dearly wants to be loved, it probably would have been very detrimental to his career.
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Not gonna argue this.

But you also have to accept there's more to it than that.

Hewitt had a pretty fiesty attitude. Marcelo Rios couldn't give a **** what people thought of him.

That by itself doesn't translate into the kind of achievements Novak has in his career.
 
GhostOfNKDM said:
Not gonna argue this.

But you also have to accept there's more to it than that.

Hewitt had a pretty fiesty attitude. Marcelo Rios couldn't give a **** what people thought of him.

That by itself doesn't translate into the kind of achievements Novak has in his career.
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Oh, Hewitt was a complete @rse when he was young. He then had terrible problems with injury.

I agree that it's to ********'s credit that he sought out Becker and obviously got so much from his coaching.

This applies to all 3 .. I think gaps in testing for PEDs has helped even more.
 
GhostOfNKDM said:
He's obviously not averse to listening to good advice - an aspect many narcissists who 'believe' in their innate greatness - don't

He was able to execute these changes - which shows talent

And he has managed to keep the process of improvment going across various areas of his game - fitness, technique, coaching etc, which shows a highly intelligent player.
Click to expand...
This is definitely true. All the Big 3 are extremely, extremely dedicated and hard workers but Djokovic probably the most so as his returning and flexibility is the least “innate” of their talents. The most honest if you will, you cannot fake or cut corners in being an elite returner.

What I mean is that mentally he is utterly convinced he will be the greatest tennis player ever and never wavers or falters from this goal. He will do and try anything to get an edge. That in itself is a crazy belief to base your life around and he has done it since age 7.

My uncle has worked in DC in political circles for 40 years and summed it up the best for me: the smartest and most thoughtful people would never run for president. It’s not that all politicians are awful people, it’s that the kind of person who can convince themselves that they of all people deserve to be leader of the free world is inherently a bit of an egomaniac and definitely a lunatic.
 
GhostOfNKDM said:
Everyone marvels at his mental resilience during matches.

To me it's his improvements and overcoming adversity over the years. I haven't witnessed any other player in my lifetime undergo so many changes and come out stronger.

Early losses at the slams, diet, racket change, coaching, marital issues (alleged), Pepe, injury, change in service motion, Adria tour, PTPA drama, Covid, US open default, RG loss...

and I'm sure I missed a few...

Any one of these alone could have sunk another player's career

Stefanki messed with Roddick's FH motion and it was done. Marty Fish tried some low carb weight loss **** and incurred arrhythmia... I mean the examples are countless.

What do you think? Am I exaggerating?
Click to expand...
Djoker makes me so angry because I don't understand how he overcomes it all.
 
That's true for every ATG, including Fedal. That's why they're ATGs.

MichaelNadal said:
Rafa has basically been healthy since 2016 besides the back this year :D
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I guess that's why he withdrew at USO 18 and skipped the rest of the season.
 
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