Now that Nadal has announced his retirement, does this change anything in Djokovic's psyche?

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Not that there were many doubts, but with Nadal's retirement there is now absolute certainty that Djokovic will end his career as the holder of the greatest number of slams won. Will this factor affect the Serbian's psyche?
In this regard, I tried to hypothesize two scenarios;

1) Djokovic in 2025, having that certainty and having also taken away the weight of the Olympic gold, will face the season with a state of inner serenity which will allow him to return to performing at his best, countering the Sinneraz hegemony without any extra pressure.

2) Djokovic in 2025, having that certainty and having also taken away the weight of the Olympic gold, will face the season without any more stimuli, and this could accelerate his retirement.

How do you see it.
In essence, could Nadal's withdrawal affect this last phase of Djokovic's career in some way, or will the Serbian simply continue to go his own way without being influenced by others in his timetable?
 

platypus50

Semi-Pro
Very good question OP. I'm leaning more towards Scenario 1 - I think the biggest motivation left for Djoker is to try and stop Alcaraz and Sinner from winning majors in 2025, that would be another feather in his cap.

IF he wins 5 more singles titles, he will win title #104 to break another Federer record but let's start with him winning title #100 first.

Djoker himself would most likely want to try and equal Federer's 8 Wimbledons and 5 US Opens, I personally think the odds are low of him winning another major (would love to eat my own words later).

From how I see it, 2023 ATP Finals (particularly the SF vs Alcaraz and F vs Sinner) was the last of Djoker's best level. Djoker losing the Davis Cup SF vs Sinner (just 5 days after routing Sinner 3 and 3 to win his 7th ATP Finals title) despite having 3 MPs (albeit on Sinner's serve) was the start of his downfall and outside of the Olympics F vs Alcaraz, his 2024 season has been quite abysmal (by Djoker's lofty standards).
 

BVSlam

Professional
I don't think it changes that much or even at all. Nadal has barely played for two years anyway. If it's about the slam record, I don't think anything changes now in terms of motivation to keep it. I highly doubt that what kept him going so far is the idea that Nadal would actually come back and rack up slams to overtake him again. And let's be honest; as relatively weak as this year was, he still reached a slam final AND semifinal, played great to win the Olympics and still seems to have a high level in him.

I think what will weigh more is whether's he's able to keep enjoying life on tour (including staying fit) vs focusing fully on family. And that will always move in the direction of the latter, especially at his age, no matter what Nadal does.

I think people here sometimes romanticize the idea that the only motivation for Federer, Nadal and Djokovic is each other. I'm sure it helped them reach the enormous heights they reached, but in the end they are individual careers with individual challenges. Regarding Djokovic; he's the most accomplished player of all time and doesn't need to base his career decisions on what Fedal do.
 

Bastion

Semi-Pro
Respect to Henman for acknowledging the greatness of Rafa, but finally telling it as it is, the numbers shows that Novak is the goat among the big three.

Let all the silly debates stop about who is the goat, we all know now who it is: 24>22>20 settled it finally, and we can now therefore still enjoy all great players achievements, each with their own unique strengths and other records, whether it is Rafa or Fed or the Goat himself:

 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
I don't think so. It was 99,9% done after Djokovic won the US Open in 2023 and 100% done after Djokovic saw Nadal lose against Zverev at the FO in straight sets.
 

ballamaz

Rookie
If Alcaraz & Sinner are the future as Djoko has said, then Nadal must be part of the past.

It is Djoko who has been living rent free in Nadal's head. Not the other way round.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
main character on clay, side character in tennis as a whole, there's three surfaces on clay.

Man was a clay merchant
By that logic, Novak is a side character on clay.

With 14 RG, Nadal can't be considered a side character in tennis as a whole. His RG record will stand the test of time longer than any other tennis record. Who will be longer remembered, a man who got the Slam record a few decades or a man whose RG record stands the test of time for centuries if not millenials?
 
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By that logic, Novak is a side character on clay.

With 14 RG, Nadal can't be considered a side character in tennis as a whole. His RG record will stand the test of time longer than any other tennis record. Who will be longer remembered, a man who got the Slam record a few decades or a man whose RG record stands the test of time for centuries if not millenials?

Yes but main character on grass, hard and indoor

Feddie main character on grass, NPC on clay and side char on hard
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Nole did all the damage to Fed resume. He excelled Fed.

Nadal has completely different resume and Nole can't damage it much at this pt.

But when someone like nole says that we all have different destinies, it's all good to hear but dude you totally eclipsed Fed in every area. Didn't even leave the OG. Beat Rafa 2 times in RG that Fed couldn't. More atp finals, more longevity. More peak. More everything.
 
The only thing that will change in Djokovic's psyche is a major injury or drop of his form, otherwise he will play until 2028 Olympics.
He will stick around and have an opportunistic approach (i.e. Alcaraz or Sinner losing early or being out of form).
Federer played until 40 years. If it wasn't that major injury, Nadal would still be playing. They way Djokovic takes care of his body and picks the tournaments he wants to play, be ready to see him until 2028.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
The only thing that will change in Djokovic's psyche is a major injury or drop of his form, otherwise he will play until 2028 Olympics.
He will stick around and have an opportunistic approach (i.e. Alcaraz or Sinner losing early or being out of form).
Federer played until 40 years. If it wasn't that major injury, Nadal would still be playing. They way Djokovic takes care of his body and picks the tournaments he wants to play, be ready to see him until 2028.
Yes. If Fed can Nole can.
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
The only thing that will change in Djokovic's psyche is a major injury or drop of his form, otherwise he will play until 2028 Olympics.
He will stick around and have an opportunistic approach (i.e. Alcaraz or Sinner losing early or being out of form).
Federer played until 40 years. If it wasn't that major injury, Nadal would still be playing. They way Djokovic takes care of his body and picks the tournaments he wants to play, be ready to see him until 2028.
Yes, but with this hypothetical scenario he would practically deny what he declared after the last final at the ATP Finals, where he said that he would continue to play until he was aware of being able to aspire to win the most important tournaments, adding until the various Sinner and Alcaraz (Rune also mentioned) wouldn't have started kicking his ass. Well I think that this moment has already arrived, the watershed moment was a few days later in the match with Sinner in Davis, on that occasion he definitively lost his invincible aura, and now he no longer even has the physical means to hold the their rhythms. I mean, does anyone really think that if they were to meet here in the final in Shanghai Djokovic could have a real chance of beating Sinner?
For me it's bordering on utopia, and in best-of-5-set matches it's utopian and that's it.
 
Nadal was done after Wimbledon 2022 getting that final injury. So I doubt it. Djoker is just looking for one slam next year. Maybe 2 if he can and then ride off into the sunset with all his records that will probably last 100 years or more unless they introduce a fifth slam. That’s the only way I see his records ever getting broke
 
Yes, but with this hypothetical scenario he would practically deny what he declared after the last final at the ATP Finals, where he said that he would continue to play until he was aware of being able to aspire to win the most important tournaments, adding until the various Sinner and Alcaraz (Rune also mentioned) wouldn't have started kicking his ass. Well I think that this moment has already arrived, the watershed moment was a few days later in the match with Sinner in Davis, on that occasion he definitively lost his invincible aura, and now he no longer even has the physical means to hold the their rhythms. I mean, does anyone really think that if they were to meet here in the final in Shanghai Djokovic could have a real chance of beating Sinner?
For me it's bordering on utopia, and in best-of-5-set matches it's utopian and that's it.
Utopia for someone who played 1 slam final and 1 semi final? And won Olympic gold?
That's why I talked about the opportunistic approach (sticking around and take any good opportunity that comes). He is not having a season like the last 3 years of Stonga, or Berdych, or Delpotro, or Cilic etc.
Federer had match point against Djokovic when he was 38 years. Sinner beat him at Davis cup and robin roun of ATP Finals, but he beat the same Sinner in the final and Alcaraz in Semi.
The margin between Djokovic and the tour got definitely smaller but he has the level to make Slams finals as much as Zverev, Medvedev, Fritz did in 2024. All he needs, it's Sinner or Alcaraz loosing early or be out of form (imagime Alcaraz has lost before final at Wimbledon as he did at AO and USO, we would be having a different story)
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Utopia for someone who played 1 slam final and 1 semi final? And won Olympic gold?
That's why I talked about the opportunistic approach (sticking around and take any good opportunity that comes). He is not having a season like the last 3 years of Stonga, or Berdych, or Delpotro, or Cilic etc.
Federer had match point against Djokovic when he was 38 years. Sinner beat him at Davis cup and robin roun of ATP Finals, but he beat the same Sinner in the final and Alcaraz in Semi.
The margin between Djokovic and the tour got definitely smaller but he has the level to make Slams finals as much as Zverev, Medvedev, Fritz did in 2024. All he needs, it's Sinner or Alcaraz loosing early or be out of form (imagime Alcaraz has lost before final at Wimbledon as he did at AO and USO, we would be having a different story)
I understood your point of view, but I repeat that it goes against the trend with the statements he made after the 2023 ATP Finals, in fact he did not say that he intended to play until he could compete in major tournaments by taking advantage of some favorable circumstances, but he said he would continue as long as he knew he could aspire to win big tournaments, they are two different things. Taking advantage of any possible defailances of Sinner and Alcaraz means no longer having the fate of destiny in one's own hands, precisely what those declarations in Turin wanted to avoid. As for the comparison with Federer at 38, the Swiss that year in the 4 majors proved to be competitive for victory only at Wimbledon, but Federer relied less than Djokovic on his excessive physical power to emerge, in addition to the fact that with that serve and that variety had an easier time containing the passage of time with more or less the same physical decline. Furthermore, I would add that next year Djokovic will not become younger than he is now, while on the contrary players like Sinner and Alcaraz who have already overtaken him can further evolve their current level, ergo, the gap is destined to increasingly widen more.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Rafa has merely made the end of his great career finally official. We all knew he had reached the end. Of the former Big 3/4, Djokovic is, unsurprisingly, the last man standing.
 

Tensky1

New User
Yes, but with this hypothetical scenario he would practically deny what he declared after the last final at the ATP Finals, where he said that he would continue to play until he was aware of being able to aspire to win the most important tournaments, adding until the various Sinner and Alcaraz (Rune also mentioned) wouldn't have started kicking his ass. Well I think that this moment has already arrived, the watershed moment was a few days later in the match with Sinner in Davis, on that occasion he definitively lost his invincible aura, and now he no longer even has the physical means to hold the their rhythms. I mean, does anyone really think that if they were to meet here in the final in Shanghai Djokovic could have a real chance of beating Sinner?
For me it's bordering on utopia, and in best-of-5-set matches it's utopian and that's it.
Sinner fans have to be the most delusional people out there right now.
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Sinner fans have to be the most delusional people out there right now.
Where would the delirium of opinion be?
Why did I say that thinking that this Djokovic could beat this Sinner if they were to face each other in the final here in Shanghai borders on utopia?
Well if so, wait about 48 hours and then we'll see if my predictions are delusional, or if your objections are delusional. Just be patient, sooner or later things always come home to roost and father time doesn't forgive.
 
Don
I understood your point of view, but I repeat that it goes against the trend with the statements he made after the 2023 ATP Finals, in fact he did not say that he intended to play until he could compete in major tournaments by taking advantage of some favorable circumstances, but he said he would continue as long as he knew he could aspire to win big tournaments, they are two different things. Taking advantage of any possible defailances of Sinner and Alcaraz means no longer having the fate of destiny in one's own hands, precisely what those declarations in Turin wanted to avoid. As for the comparison with Federer at 38, the Swiss that year in the 4 majors proved to be competitive for victory only at Wimbledon, but Federer relied less than Djokovic on his excessive physical power to emerge, in addition to the fact that with that serve and that variety had an easier time containing the passage of time with more or less the same physical decline. Furthermore, I would add that next year Djokovic will not become younger than he is now, while on the contrary players like Sinner and Alcaraz who have already overtaken him can further evolve their current level, ergo, the gap is destined to increasingly widen more.
Don't worry about what players say.
Why would they disclose all their cards?
Tennis can be very volatile sometimes.
- Nadal won AO in 2009 and 2022. 13 years apppart.
- Djokovic never reach Olympics final before 2024. 13 years after his amazing 2011 season.
- Alcaraz cramped at RG 2023.
- Etc.
It's not about Djokovic becoming younger but about his ability to take advantage of any opportunity. And he knows it.
When he was younger and at his peak, he was not expecting a favorable draw, healthy week for him, bad week of his opponents, weather conditions, court conditions, etc to be competitive. But going forward he will adjust his schedule and style of play accordingly. It's for the same reasons why Nadal decided to skip OA, Wimbledon and USO in 2024 but played RG and Olympics.
For example, Djokovic is playing Shangai Masters semi final and Alcaraz is not. Imagine Sinner losing tomorrow to Machac. We can have a scenario where Djokovic win a big title without having to play neither Alcaraz nor Sinner.
 
One mat
Where would the delirium of opinion be?
Why did I say that thinking that this Djokovic could beat this Sinner if they were to face each other in the final here in Shanghai borders on utopia?
Well if so, wait about 48 hours and then we'll see if my predictions are delusional, or if your objections are delusional. Just be patient, sooner or later things always come home to roost and father time doesn't forgive.
One match will not say much about these players future. We are discussing here about their future seasons and especially about Djokovic potential retirement after Nadal.
Alcaraz just lost to Machac. Is that the end for him?
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
Don

Don't worry about what players say.
Why would they disclose all their cards?
Tennis can be very volatile sometimes.
- Nadal won AO in 2009 and 2022. 13 years apppart.
- Djokovic never reach Olympics final before 2024. 13 years after his amazing 2011 season.
- Alcaraz cramped at RG 2023.
- Etc.
It's not about Djokovic becoming younger but about his ability to take advantage of any opportunity. And he knows it.
When he was younger and at his peak, he was not expecting a favorable draw, healthy week for him, bad week of his opponents, weather conditions, court conditions, etc to be competitive. But going forward he will adjust his schedule and style of play accordingly. It's for the same reasons why Nadal decided to skip OA, Wimbledon and USO in 2024 but played RG and Olympics.
For example, Djokovic is playing Shangai Masters semi final and Alcaraz is not. Imagine Sinner losing tomorrow to Machac. We can have a scenario where Djokovic win a big title without having to play neither Alcaraz nor Sinner.
I'm not worried about those statements of his, I simply said that if the scenario is equivalent to your reconstruction it would basically contradict what he said that time, that's all. He said it openly, he will seriously consider retiring when young people like Sinner, Alcaraz or Rune start kicking my ass. That Djokovic wants to continue playing is his right which I not only respect but which I ideally share, after all he is not a player who drags on. The only thing I repeat is that in your reconstruction of Djokovic's future in the short term, if that is actually the trend it would contradict the truth of the Turin 2023 press conference, I am simply underlining this without judging whether in his current position it makes little sense continue.
 

Tano

Hall of Fame
Very good question OP. I'm leaning more towards Scenario 1 - I think the biggest motivation left for Djoker is to try and stop Alcaraz and Sinner from winning majors in 2025, that would be another feather in his cap.

IF he wins 5 more singles titles, he will win title #104 to break another Federer record but let's start with him winning title #100 first.

Djoker himself would most likely want to try and equal Federer's 8 Wimbledons and 5 US Opens, I personally think the odds are low of him winning another major (would love to eat my own words later).

From how I see it, 2023 ATP Finals (particularly the SF vs Alcaraz and F vs Sinner) was the last of Djoker's best level. Djoker losing the Davis Cup SF vs Sinner (just 5 days after routing Sinner 3 and 3 to win his 7th ATP Finals title) despite having 3 MPs (albeit on Sinner's serve) was the start of his downfall and outside of the Olympics F vs Alcaraz, his 2024 season has been quite abysmal (by Djoker's lofty standards).
The record for most titles in the Open Era belongs to Connors, so even if he were to surpass Federer's titles, he would not have that record in his favor.
 

Tano

Hall of Fame
The only thing that will change in Djokovic's psyche is a major injury or drop of his form, otherwise he will play until 2028 Olympics.
He will stick around and have an opportunistic approach (i.e. Alcaraz or Sinner losing early or being out of form).
Federer played until 40 years. If it wasn't that major injury, Nadal would still be playing. They way Djokovic takes care of his body and picks the tournaments he wants to play, be ready to see him until 2028.
He will not continue playing until that age if he continues to suffer humiliating defeats against lower-ranked players like Popyrin in Major tournaments.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Nadal has only played a handful of matches and had no impact on the sport since mid 2022, so he's already been effectively retired since then. His announcement now changes nothing for Djokovic.
Nadal barely made any impact in 2024.

Djokovic would be foolish to be affected by Nadal retirement when he had already promised he would retire before 31st December 2024 and not a day later.
 

Winner Sinner

Hall of Fame
One mat

One match will not say much about these players future. We are discussing here about their future seasons and especially about Djokovic potential retirement after Nadal.
Alcaraz just lost to Machac. Is that the end for him?
I replied to the user who had implicitly labeled my delusional comment, I suppose when I spoke of utopia aimed at the possible match here in Shanghai. I think there is too much confusion, I am not going off topic of a thread that I myself opened, I simply underlined how your hypothetical reconstruction of the Djokovic that will be could contradict his declarations of some time ago on the priorities in this last stage of career. Always having to add based on those statements that the moment in which Djokovic can no longer compete with the most highly rated young scions has already arrived. Even in my opinion, the possible final in Shanghai will prove nothing other than confirming that Djokovic can no longer compete with the current Sinner, and the more time passes, the more the gap will widen. This is my opinion. And I don't feel like I'm saying or predicting some strange thing.
 
Novak will continue provided he can make deep runs in tournaments, avoids serious injury and still has the passion. I mean even making the SF of Shanghai will encourage him. He’s had a bad year apart from the Olympics this year. However, the fact he can still make a masters SF with his patchy form, after his meniscus injury shows he can still do it.

He needs a lot more luck to try win a major as he’s no longer the favourite anywhere. I have him 3rd/4th behind alcaraz and Sinner. However, if he maintains this he might still win some smaller titles and an opportunity might arise to snatch a slam next year. I don’t expect it but the fact he’s still very competitive and only 2 players are ahead of him will encourage him. When he plays them he knows he’s the underdog but he might relish that with nothing to lose.

He might also try to work out where he might try go all out. A bit like Fed did in Wimbledon 2019, if he catches form, alcaraz/sinner are off form or struggling physically the door could open 1 last time. He might calculate where to invest more energy in trying to win a slam depending on his form, rivals form, his draw, etc. He has the luxury of being a crafty old fox and just pick what he goes for whereas sinner/alcarax are young, in their primes and have it all to prove/win will go for everything

If he plays Sinner here I don’t see Djokovic winning but at same time you can’t right him off. I don’t think Nadal retiring does much. As he practically played without Nadal for like 2 years anyway so I don’t see much changing on that score.
 
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Mustard

Bionic Poster
Respect to Henman for acknowledging the greatness of Rafa, but finally telling it as it is, the numbers shows that Novak is the goat among the big three.
Paralysis through analysis. Nadal at his best is the greatest player.

Henman is always a "gentleman", but that video and his support for a strict shot clock speak volumes to my mind as to his real opinions, i.e. one of those pro-Federer, anti-Nadal types of 2004-2009.
 
Paralysis through analysis. Nadal at his best is the greatest player.

Henman is always a "gentleman", but that video and his support for a strict shot clock speak volumes to my mind as to his real opinions, i.e. one of those pro-Federer, anti-Nadal types of 2004-2009.
Nadal at his best is the greatest clay player ever! :)
 
Paralysis through analysis. Nadal at his best is the greatest player.

Henman is always a "gentleman", but that video and his support for a strict shot clock speak volumes to my mind as to his real opinions, i.e. one of those pro-Federer, anti-Nadal types of 2004-2009.
I actually through what i do for work know Henman's father and a few people who are close to Tim. Tim is a good guy but he is a traditionalist and privately he never liked Nadal's on court persona or style of game or clothing (the pirate shorts sleeveless top), while he adored everything about the grace and charm of Federer. He isnt the only one in the British media with those views and they would never, and never did, acknowledge Nadal as GOAT because they had a long held dislike to Nadal's style, albeit they all like him personally off court.
When Nadal had the slam record Henman refused to call him GOAT, so when he now says its about the numbers obviously he comes across a bit bitter and hypocritical. You will note that people like Henman use the slam count to justify Djokovic ahead of Nadal but when it comes to Federer v Nadal then all of a sudden slam count isnt the only measuring stick. It is a real conundrum for the traditionalists really as they cant now actually seriously say who is GOAT with a consistent argument.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Very good question OP. I'm leaning more towards Scenario 1 - I think the biggest motivation left for Djoker is to try and stop Alcaraz and Sinner from winning majors in 2025, that would be another feather in his cap.

IF he wins 5 more singles titles, he will win title #104 to break another Federer record but let's start with him winning title #100 first.

Djoker himself would most likely want to try and equal Federer's 8 Wimbledons and 5 US Opens, I personally think the odds are low of him winning another major (would love to eat my own words later).

From how I see it, 2023 ATP Finals (particularly the SF vs Alcaraz and F vs Sinner) was the last of Djoker's best level. Djoker losing the Davis Cup SF vs Sinner (just 5 days after routing Sinner 3 and 3 to win his 7th ATP Finals title) despite having 3 MPs (albeit on Sinner's serve) was the start of his downfall and outside of the Olympics F vs Alcaraz, his 2024 season has been quite abysmal (by Djoker's lofty standards).

Forget Fed, Novak is aiming at Connors' titles record. 109 right?
 
He will win more Slams, that is for certain.
Id like him to , rivalries now are over, but i personally cannot see it as at his age best of 5 sets over 2 weeks is a real grind. a day off between matches close to 40 isnt really a day off in the same way as for guys in their 20s.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Id like him to , rivalries now are over, but i personally cannot see it as at his age best of 5 sets over 2 weeks is a real grind. a day off between matches close to 40 isnt really a day off in the same way as for guys in their 20s.

If not for Jannik and Carlos, he wins 2 slams to go with his gold medal in 2024
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Yes but main character on grass, hard and indoor

Feddie main character on grass, NPC on clay and side char on hard

Congratulations on being one of the fastest to ignore list of mine, fresh new green troll.

Djokovic isn't even top 3 of all time. Federer, Laver, Gonzales.

giga Vulturing and being mega luckiest of all time does not make one greater.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I hope Djokovic gets slammed again and again for another year or so just like 2024. Alcaraz in Wimbledon final and Sinner in AO semi.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Nole did all the damage to Fed resume. He excelled Fed.

Nadal has completely different resume and Nole can't damage it much at this pt.

But when someone like nole says that we all have different destinies, it's all good to hear but dude you totally eclipsed Fed in every area. Didn't even leave the OG. Beat Rafa 2 times in RG that Fed couldn't. More atp finals, more longevity. More peak. More everything.

Djokovic could never eclipse Federer in Popularity and Money, too bad, that's what people (even the billionaires... ask them..they want more) crave for in life, not stats alone.
 

Bastion

Semi-Pro
Paralysis through analysis. Nadal at his best is the greatest player.

Henman is always a "gentleman", but that video and his support for a strict shot clock speak volumes to my mind as to his real opinions, i.e. one of those pro-Federer, anti-Nadal types of 2004-2009
You another tennis flat earther denying tennis reality, stats and facts?

What is next, IF my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle?

The silly 'what if' game helps no one but some bitter fans of some players. One can do the what if with any player, then Borg, Sampras or Fed or Rafa or Novak could have won much more, maybe Novak on 30 GS already... what if...

Fact is, we had the big three, each a great legend goat in his own way. Fed was the founder of all goat debates, Rafa definitely the Clay King Goat, and, Novak definitely the Overall Goat of goats, 24>22>20 settled it once and for all.

Just make peace with it, if not, you not going to enjoy any and all tennis after big three, also not a possible future goat of goats, Sinner or Carlos, etc.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Djokovic is going to go down in the eyes of most as the greatest of all time, its all about what he wants to do with his career from this point on. I don't think Nadal going would change that, it was clear for a while that Nadal was done winning slams and big titles in general.
 
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