Now TTW give Dominic Thiem his due: He deserved the USO And He is here to stay at the very top.

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
WTF F ,AO F, USO W, WTF F.

This man has done better than all in the important HC events

He beat Rafa AND Djokovic here. And he should have straight setted them both.

And yes Novak wasn't himself but he wasn't himself even in Cincinnati. No way he is 100% to beat Thiem.

Nadal played as well as he can on HC and lost in straights.

Thiem also beat the the Defending WTF Champ for good measure.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
better than anyone else in the fail gen or new gen (atleast so far). A pretty good season. But level of play is nothing special - not approaching ATG level. Should've closed out Djokovic in 2 sets today.
 

Lew II

Legend
better than anyone else in the fail gen or new gen (atleast so far). A pretty good season. But level of play is nothing special - not approaching ATG level. Should've closed out Djokovic in 2 sets today.
Thiem combines the speed of Hewitt, the power of Roddick and the shotmaking of Safin.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
I don't think anybody thought Zverev deserved the US Open more than Thiem.
And I've always said Djokovic deserved to be punished for many years of poor behavior.
 

weakera

Legend
I wouldn't really say he deserved a USO, he deserved "this" USO but it's hard to call it a legitimate title when the top two contenders basically didn't play.

And last year he beat Djokovic at WTF too, and had a better result at RG.

So... yes, he's a top player, but IMO his status was the same last season - a top player, a tier below Nadalovic.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Thiem combines the speed of Hewitt, the power of Roddick and the shotmaking of Safin.
What next? Dimitrov is the next Federer, Nishikori the next Djokovic? :-D :-D

Thiem is a step slower than prime Hewitt, doesn't come close to Roddick's serve and doesn't come close to shotmaking of Safin.

prime Hewitt, Roddick, Safin would've wiped the floor with today's Novak.
Heck Safin on his worst surface thrashed him in Wim 08 (Djokovic was better in 08 than current). Roddick beat him many times and leads h2h 5-4.

But then again, Djokovic&Nadal been so lucky since the WorstGen (Raonic, Nishikori, Dimitrov) and with this new gen who aren't even on the level of Hewitt/Roddick/Safin/Murray/Wawrinka so far, let alone ATG level of Edberg/Becker/Wilander.

That has never happened. Such a big gap without a younger ATG.
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
WTF F ,AO F, USO W, WTF F.

This man has done better than all in the important HC events

He beat Rafa AND Djokovic here. And he should have straight setted them both.

And yes Novak wasn't himself but he wasn't himself even in Cincinnati. No way he is 100% to beat Thiem.

Nadal played as well as he can on HC and lost in straights.

Thiem also beat the the Defending WTF Champ for good measure.
Wait he beat Djokovic at a Slam now?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
But how can you measure this ATG level? It's very subjective
Its subjective and yet can be seen easily. An ATG level guy doesn't play that poorly in a slam final vs a first time slammer for nearly 2 sets and then cramp towards the end/hit only bh slices. I'm giving Thiem leeway for 2017 RG semi vs Nadal, but he played below par in 18 final and didn't do anywhere near enough after 2 sets in RG 2019 final.
Also an ATG level guy would've probably wrestled that AO 2020 final from djokovic after being up 2 sets to 1.
 
WTF F ,AO F, USO W, WTF F.

This man has done better than all in the important HC events

He beat Rafa AND Djokovic here. And he should have straight setted them both.

And yes Novak wasn't himself but he wasn't himself even in Cincinnati. No way he is 100% to beat Thiem.

Nadal played as well as he can on HC and lost in straights.

Thiem also beat the the Defending WTF Champ for good measure.
The Rafa match could easily have gone in 3 sets. Rafa was up 5-2 in the 1st tie-break.
 

RS

Legend
Its subjective and yet can be seen easily. An ATG level guy doesn't play that poorly in a slam final vs a first time slammer for nearly 2 sets and then cramp towards the end/hit only bh slices. I'm giving Thiem leeway for 2017 RG semi vs Nadal, but he played below par in 18 final and didn't do anywhere near enough after 2 sets in RG 2019 final.
Also an ATG level guy would've probably wrestled that AO 2020 final from djokovic after being up 2 sets to 1.
You keep talking about ATG level when many many of Federer slam wins were not against ATGs or "playing like ATG" and he was the only ATG in his gen.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
WTF F ,AO F, USO W, WTF F.

This man has done better than all in the important HC events

He beat Rafa AND Djokovic here. And he should have straight setted them both.

And yes Novak wasn't himself but he wasn't himself even in Cincinnati. No way he is 100% to beat Thiem.

Nadal played as well as he can on HC and lost in straights.

Thiem also beat the the Defending WTF Champ for good measure.
He has one more match to win.
 
Its subjective and yet can be seen easily. An ATG level guy doesn't play that poorly in a slam final vs a first time slammer for nearly 2 sets and then cramp towards the end/hit only bh slices. I'm giving Thiem leeway for 2017 RG semi vs Nadal, but he played below par in 18 final and didn't do anywhere near enough after 2 sets in RG 2019 final.
Also an ATG level guy would've probably wrestled that AO 2020 final from djokovic after being up 2 sets to 1.
Yeah I got it, honestly I don't really care I just want Thiem to win slams soon , ATG or not
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
You keep talking about ATG level when many many of Federer slams wins were not against ATGs or "playing like ATG" and he was the only ATG in his gen.
Read where it started from, especially the bold part.

What next? Dimitrov is the next Federer, Nishikori the next Djokovic? :-D :-D

Thiem is a step slower than prime Hewitt, doesn't come close to Roddick's serve and doesn't come close to shotmaking of Safin.

prime Hewitt, Roddick, Safin would've wiped the floor with today's Novak.
Heck Safin on his worst surface thrashed him in Wim 08 (Djokovic was better in 08 than current). Roddick beat him many times and leads h2h 5-4.

But then again, Djokovic&Nadal been so lucky since the WorstGen (Raonic, Nishikori, Dimitrov) and with this new gen who aren't even on the level of Hewitt/Roddick/Safin/Murray/Wawrinka so far, let alone ATG level of Edberg/Becker/Wilander.

That has never happened. Such a big gap without a younger ATG.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
Damn, Sascha looks DAPPER there.
Indeed. Maybe a bit too dapper.

It was hilarious. When I logged on here for the first time in a while, I had messages from Meles. That Zverev image was the first one I saw. lol Wrong time for me to be drinking anything cause I spat it all out. . It was my own fault. I should have known Meles would make me laugh. :p
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
I saw your comment but it was just another reminder. Your first comment blew up ATG stuff out of nowhere too.
He asked what's ATG level and how it can be determined. So I explained. Stop making mountain out of a molehill.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
What next? Dimitrov is the next Federer, Nishikori the next Djokovic? :-D :-D

Thiem is a step slower than prime Hewitt, doesn't come close to Roddick's serve and doesn't come close to shotmaking of Safin.

prime Hewitt, Roddick, Safin would've wiped the floor with today's Novak.
Heck Safin on his worst surface thrashed him in Wim 08 (Djokovic was better in 08 than current). Roddick beat him many times and leads h2h 5-4.

But then again, Djokovic&Nadal been so lucky since the WorstGen (Raonic, Nishikori, Dimitrov) and with this new gen who aren't even on the level of Hewitt/Roddick/Safin/Murray/Wawrinka so far, let alone ATG level of Edberg/Becker/Wilander.

That has never happened. Such a big gap without a younger ATG.
I think Thiem should be in the Hewitt/Roddick/Safin/Stan/Murray tier, but the weakest of the lot for now.
 

RS

Legend
He asked what's ATG level and how it can be determined. So I explained. Stop making mountain out of a molehill.
That comment came after you made your first one. Not exactly making some big something small when its already big on this forum......
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
Sure, he played at by far the lowest level to win a slam among those guys, but I prefer to look at the bigger picture.
I'm talking about what has happened till now. What he does in the future remains to be seen.
I mean Safin, Hewitt, Roddick were lightning in their 1st slam finals. Thiem couldn't play well in his 4th frickin slam final vs a 1st time finalist in Z?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I'm talking about what has happened till now. What he does in the future remains to be seen.
I mean Safin, Hewitt, Roddick were lightning in their 1st slam finals. Thiem couldn't play well in his 4th frickin slam final vs a 1st time finalist in Z?
I agree. That's why he is the weakest of that group right now.
 

3loudboys

Hall of Fame
Just a few stats about Thiem in comparison to Safin, Hewitt, Roddick and Wawrinka. I'll let you make up your own mind but to me he is ahead in some categories already aged 27. With another 5-10 years left in him he will surpass these guys IMO.

PlayerMarat SafinAndy RoddickLleyton HewittStan WawrinkaDominic Thiem
Career record422–267 (61.3%)612–213 (74.2%)616–262 70.2%530–306 (63.4%) 300–156 (65.8%)
Career titles1532301617
Highest rankingNo. 1 - 20/11/200No. 1 - 03/11/2003No. 1 - 19/11/2001No. 3 - 27/01/2014No. 3 - 02/03/2020
Slam Finals4, (2 wins)5, (1 win)4, (2 wins)4, (3 wins)4, (1 win)
Australian OpenW (2005)SF (2003, 2005, 2007, 2009)F (2005)W (2014)F (2020)
French OpenSF (2002)4R (2009)QF (2001, 2004)W (2015)F (2018, 2019)
WimbledonSF (2008)F (2004, 2005, 2009)W (2002)QF (2014, 2015)4R (2017)
US OpenW (2000)W (2003)W (2001)W (2016)W (2020)
Tour FinalsSF (2000, 2004)SF (2003, 2004, 2007)W (2001, 2002)SF (2013, 2014, 2015)F (2019, 2020)
Olympic Games2R (2004)3R (2004)3R (2012)2R (2008)N/A
Masters 1000 Finals8, (5 wins)9, (5 wins)7, (2 wins)4, (1 win)3, (1 win)
Masters 500 Finals4, (1 win)8, (5 wins)2, (2 wins)6, (3 wins)6, (5 wins)
Masters 250 Finals11 (7 wins)30, (21 wins)30, (22 wins)16, (9 wins)13, (10 wins)
 

RS

Legend
Just a few stats about Thiem in comparison to Safin, Hewitt, Roddick and Wawrinka. I'll let you make up your own mind but to me he is ahead in some categories already aged 27. With another 5-10 years left in him he will surpass these guys IMO.

PlayerMarat SafinAndy RoddickLleyton HewittStan WawrinkaDominic Thiem
Career record422–267 (61.3%)612–213 (74.2%)616–262 70.2%530–306 (63.4%)300–156 (65.8%)
Career titles1532301617
Highest rankingNo. 1 - 20/11/200No. 1 - 03/11/2003No. 1 - 19/11/2001No. 3 - 27/01/2014No. 3 - 02/03/2020
Slam Finals4, (2 wins)5, (1 win)4, (2 wins)4, (3 wins)4, (1 win)
Australian OpenW (2005)SF (2003, 2005, 2007, 2009)F (2005)W (2014)F (2020)
French OpenSF (2002)4R (2009)QF (2001, 2004)W (2015)F (2018, 2019)
WimbledonSF (2008)F (2004, 2005, 2009)W (2002)QF (2014, 2015)4R (2017)
US OpenW (2000)W (2003)W (2001)W (2016)W (2020)
Tour FinalsSF (2000, 2004)SF (2003, 2004, 2007)W (2001, 2002)SF (2013, 2014, 2015)F (2019, 2020)
Olympic Games2R (2004)3R (2004)3R (2012)2R (2008)N/A
Masters 1000 Finals8, (5 wins)9, (5 wins)7, (2 wins)4, (1 win)3, (1 win)
Masters 500 Finals4, (1 win)8, (5 wins)2, (2 wins)6, (3 wins)6, (5 wins)
Masters 250 Finals11 (7 wins)30, (21 wins)30, (22 wins)16, (9 wins)13, (10 wins)
Yeah for all that talk of the super beast like first 3 in many stats they are not even towering over even though they are better as of now.
 

3loudboys

Hall of Fame
Yeah for all that talk of the super beast like first 3 in many stats they are not even towering over even though they are better as of now.
Thiem already has a better win ratio than Safin and Wawrinka and more titles. The slam count will increase as well if he continues on his upward trend and with it a real chance of moving to the top of the rankings.
 
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