NTRP is marketing hype designed to inflate egos...

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Deleted member 23235

Guest
...like the clothing industry has done with women's sizes...

Recently got an email from UTR... updating my rating.
lol a solid "7+"... which by some charts is equiv to 3.5 NTRP.
curious, i perused a dozen or so players (players i've lost to, beaten, and play equal too)...
in general it seems like UTR is much much better at establishing relative ratings (especially compared to much better players (pros, juniors, college, etc...)

on these boards we spend alot of time debating 3.0 vs. 4.0 vs. 5.0... when, to me it just seems like a way for USTA to arbitrarily make their leagues more inclusive (ie. more $$$).
eg. too many folks at "4.0", let's even the distribution curve, and bump folks up... which also now creates a "5.0" league where one did not exist before.

seems like utr's beta of including usta matches in their ratings is becoming more and more accurate.

anywho, from now on we should be comparing utr ratings, which is more realistic (albeit humbling)

discuss!
 

OrangePower

Legend
You're probably right, in terms of comparing relative ratings.

But I don't see that as the main purpose of NTRP. I think of it more as a way of banding together players who can have competitive matches with each other. To meet that goal, you need to have the band be 'narrow' enough so that a player at the top and one at the bottom are not too far apart in skill, but at the same time you need to have the band be 'wide' enough to have a viable number of players included. But not too wide that the band gets crowded!

So both rating scales have their purpose, it's just different tools for different jobs.
 

MisterP

Hall of Fame
Just looked at the UTR site. Weird how only some of my matches are showing up as UTR eligible. I played 11 USTA matches this fall and only 3 are showing, 2 from the 40+ league and 1 from 18+.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
...like the clothing industry has done with women's sizes...

Recently got an email from UTR... updating my rating.
lol a solid "7+"... which by some charts is equiv to 3.5 NTRP.
curious, i perused a dozen or so players (players i've lost to, beaten, and play equal too)...
in general it seems like UTR is much much better at establishing relative ratings (especially compared to much better players (pros, juniors, college, etc...)

on these boards we spend alot of time debating 3.0 vs. 4.0 vs. 5.0... when, to me it just seems like a way for USTA to arbitrarily make their leagues more inclusive (ie. more $$$).
eg. too many folks at "4.0", let's even the distribution curve, and bump folks up... which also now creates a "5.0" league where one did not exist before.

seems like utr's beta of including usta matches in their ratings is becoming more and more accurate.

anywho, from now on we should be comparing utr ratings, which is more realistic (albeit humbling)

discuss!
Wait, so you're saying a completely arbitrary rating system created by the USTA for the sole purpose creating competitive internal leagues and tournaments is actually a tool of the USTA to make their leagues and tournaments more inclusive? You don't say...

The folly of this is usually trying to discuss the NTRP of non-USTA players because NTRP actually wasn't created for this purpose at all, but rather to place people playing in leagues and tournaments at the appropriate competitive level. So, to that extent, it definitely would be far more appropriate to discuss UTR of non-USTA players than NTRP, but that's not really an indictment of the NTRP system. Using something for a purpose that it was never intended for does not invalidate it for its intended purpose.
 

atp2015

Hall of Fame
The ratings are relative and the absolute skills/ability varies even within large cities let alone across regions and nations. UTR is utterly meaningless as marketed directly to players- because universal rating does not exist in reality and UTR does not organize events to come up with ratings. I don't know how long the UTR has been up, but I'm surprised they are in business. ATP rankings are good enough for top 1000 or so players in the world.

UTR could provide their calculation service(if it's better than what USTA has) to USTA and other event organizers and update ratings for them within the player base of individual organizers.
 
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OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
I don't think UTR is currently worthwhile at least as a 3.5C rated woman who plays mostly league.
1. Hasn't updated a match since early October. I have more than a dozen league matches that are not listed (both singles and doubles)
2. For women, their UTR # is ridiculous. They have me as a 2 in singles and a 3 in doubles. Other people at 2 in singles have NTRP ratings as high as 4.0C and as low as a 2.5C ... that is not competitive as a ranking. In Doubles a 3 has people in it as low as a 3.0C and as high as a 4.5C ... again ridiculous

Yes, ratings are a way to assist our egos (or destroy them) but they are designed to give us a space in which to play competitive matches. If we keep that in perspective, then NTRP is just fine and works 90% of the time. You don't want me playing against a 4.5 ... that would be an un-fun match for everyone. UTR ratings are currently set up to create a whole bunch of un-fun matches.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
NTRP is a pretty good guideline. I've never played USTA and call myself a 3.5 based on the rough guidelines. I've always had fair matches when playing other USTA-rated 3.5's down in the desert.

I've never viewed it as a social ranking scale like some apparently do. It's just a way to find some people to play against that won't become farcical. And honestly I think for most people: beginner A & B/intermediate A & B/advanced A & B would cover 90% of league players and been less confusing than the number system.

Seriously, why is there even 1.0-2.0 in the NTRP system? Those people don't compete and don't care about NTRP. Stupid place to start what is supposed to be a ranking system for competitive players.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
While NTRP has its problems, so will any system. In any rating system, there is going to be someone at the top of each level who gets accused of sandbagging and someone at the bottom accusing everyone else of cheating.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
NTRP is a pretty good guideline. I've never played USTA and call myself a 3.5 based on the rough guidelines. I've always had fair matches when playing other USTA-rated 3.5's down in the desert.

I've never viewed it as a social ranking scale like some apparently do. It's just a way to find some people to play against that won't become farcical. And honestly I think for most people: beginner A & B/intermediate A & B/advanced A & B would cover 90% of league players and been less confusing than the number system.

Seriously, why is there even 1.0-2.0 in the NTRP system? Those people don't compete and don't care about NTRP. Stupid place to start what is supposed to be a ranking system for competitive players.
Both ends of the system are totally unnecessary. Pros are 7.0 if they're top 400 or 6.5 below 400? Who on tour (or anyone over 5.0 for that matter) cares what their NTRP rating is?
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
...like the clothing industry has done with women's sizes...

Psst - they've also done it to men's sizes. A 35 here in Europe is way different than a 35 there, I noticed.

Anywho, I love tennis ratings. It's a lot like the class system. The only people that care are the ones in the middle. At the top? Whatever. At the bottom, fine. Somewhere in the middle - it's all struggle.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Created and account. Apparently my comparative level is D3 women, boy’s 14’s and girls 16’s? Whisky tango foxtrot?


Probably posting from the court between sets.
 

norcal

Legend
Psst - they've also done it to men's sizes. A 35 here in Europe is way different than a 35 there, I noticed.

In America we are 7.0 in obesity!

And @nytennisaddict - this thread is just a veiled attempt to get bumped to 5.0, isn't it?
finger2.gif
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
this sounds pretty promising... [fyi: on tapatalk this comment is cut off]

Universal Tennis Builds Momentum for UTR – Announces New CEO, Ownership and Partners
Universal Tennis announces new CEO Mark Leschly, seasoned and experienced partners group and strategic partnership with Tennis Channel

(January 3, 2018) Universal Tennis announced a series of strategic moves today that sets the stage for Universal Tennis Rating (UTR) to continue its positive impact on the sport by providing tennis players worldwide with a single, unifying language and standard:



  • Universal Tennis announced Mark Leschly, Founder and Managing Partner of Iconica Partners, has come on as principal owner, Chairman and CEO.
  • A new partners group has purchased control of the Company led by seasoned investors, advisors and operators in tennis, sports, technology and media.
  • Universal Tennis is announcing a major strategic media partnership with Tennis Channel making UTR an integrated part of on-air broadcasts throughout 2018.


Universal Tennis Rating (UTR) is a system for providing tennis players across age, geography, gender and economics with a common language and standard. As the leading algorithm-based system for competitive tennis players, UTR has already experienced rapid grassroots adoption across college and junior levels worldwide. Now, together with heavyweights in Tennis with deep knowledge of the landscape in both technology and media, UTR is making tennis more accessible than ever before.

“Our vision with UTR is to unify tennis and improve the experience for players worldwide,” said Leschly, CEO of Universal Tennis. “We want to create a level playing field and platform where any player can get a rating, track their progress and find competitive matches at their level, regardless of where they live. Together with our partners, we’re not only making the game more accessible, but also less costly and more enjoyable for players to both find more play and improve their tennis.”

As CEO, Mark Leschly combines both an in depth knowledge and experience in sports and tennis with nearly 25 years of entrepreneurial management and investment in technology-led businesses as a venture capitalist and startup CEO. He is a former ATP ranked player selected to the Danish Davis Cup team, two-time Captain and #1 player for Harvard Men’s Tennis and a member of the USTA Foundation Advisory Board and USTA Player Development Council. Mark is the Founder and Managing Partner of Iconica Partners (www.iconicapartners.com), a principal firm investing at the interface of sports, media and technology; and the Managing Partner of Rho Capital Partners, a leading technology focused venture capital and private equity firm with over $2.5B under management (www.rho.com). He is an owner in several sports teams and leagues including the Los Angeles Football Club (Major League Soccer team in LA), Professional Fighters League (a new MMA league), Team Liquid (esports) and Oklahoma City Dodgers (AAA Minor League baseball team).

Joining the new ownership group are seasoned investors, advisors and operators in tennis, sports, technology and media including:



  • Mark Hurd, CEO of Oracle
  • Ken Solomon, President of Tennis Channel
  • Ken Hao, Managing Partner, Silver Lake Partners
  • Jan Leschly, former CEO of SmithKline Beecham, Top 10 ATP player and former Chairman of Tennis Hall of Fame
  • The Tennis Media Company
  • Major League Baseball
  • LA Dodgers investment group


Together with its investors and partners, Universal Tennis is working to foster the growth of tennis at all levels. UTR is supported and actively used by hundreds and thousands of players in more than 200 countries, as well as leading coaches and tennis programs from around the world.

To further build on this momentum, Tennis Channel will be using the UTR system on-air immediately in live coverage, sharing the UTR Power Index, a daily snapshot of top tennis player matchups, potential upsets and trends.

“UTR is building a powerful global tennis standard and language by which all players everywhere can measure, track, develop and interact,” said Tennis Channel President Ken Solomon. “The opportunity for this powerful tool to help us make the game even more accessible to an ever-widening universe is unprecedented.”

Universal Tennis is committed to bringing the best of technology to supporting, enhancing and growing the game of tennis for everyone to make it more enjoyable and engaging. Just as every golfer carries a handicap that’s applicable on any course, any tennis player can sign up for free for their UTR at www.MyUTR.com to see how their level of play compares to others.

About Universal Tennis:
Universal Tennis is the company behind UTR, a revolutionary system that provides a single, unifying language and standard for tennis players across ages, geographies and genders. The company’s vision is to unify tennis for everyone by bringing cutting edge analytics and community based technology to tennis players worldwide independent of level. UTR is a unique, algorithm-based system for tennis that allows anyone to measure, identify and track their level relative to other players, while also providing tools for coaches and organizers to run UTR Powered Events that are level based rather than age or gender driven. Today the UTR system is powered by over 6 million match results, across 600 thousand players in nearly 200 countries. To sign up for UTR, please visit www.MyUTR.com.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
In America we are 7.0 in obesity!

And @nytennisaddict - this thread is just a veiled attempt to get bumped to 5.0, isn't it?
finger2.gif
well that's the issue i have,... if i got bumped up to 5.0 due to NTRP-inflation... much like currency inflation, the bump wouldn't be a valuable/significant (ie. from a personal achievement standpoint)
(eg. who cares about breaking, say the 2h marathon mark, if they shorten the marathon by a mile)

UTR (imo) attempts to get an absolute rating (regardless of age, gender, etc...)
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Then they are failing miserably, at least for adult women ....
just looked up some of the 4.5 women on my 9.0 team... their UTR seem in line...

me:
* UTR: 7
* ntrp: 4.5
* tennisrecord/tls: 4.25

female teammate
* UTR: 5
* ntrp: 4.5
* tennisrecord: 4.0x (ie. very low 4.5)

Notes:
* many of my teammates have many matches in usta (and registered in utr)... so they are "Rated" vs. "Projected Rated" (not enough matches)
* utr does take a while to update (from a software engineering standpoint, i can see why it takes a while)

my guess is you either:
a) don't have enough matches recorded in utr
b) your matches are against opponents with similarly incomplete rating data

UTR might not be perfect now (they only recently (lsat year or so) started add usta scores i think, and it takes a while to compute these ratings)... but they are moving in the right direction IMO
 

OrangePower

Legend
well that's the issue i have,... if i got bumped up to 5.0 due to NTRP-inflation... much like currency inflation, the bump wouldn't be a valuable/significant (ie. from a personal achievement standpoint)
(eg. who cares about breaking, say the 2h marathon mark, if they shorten the marathon by a mile)

UTR (imo) attempts to get an absolute rating (regardless of age, gender, etc...)
Yeah, but from USTA perspective the point of bumping you to 5.0 is not to reward you for your personal achievement, but rather to group you with others with whom you will have competitive matches. It doesn't even necessarily mean that you got any better (e.g., they could be trying to increase the size of the 5.0 pool).

I get that getting to 5.0 can be seen as a personal goal, and that's fine as long as it's taken with a pinch of salt because NTRP is not a perfect measure of skill. To be a true measure it would need to be more sophisticated (e.g. differentiate between singles and doubles, etc).
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Yeah, but from USTA perspective the point of bumping you to 5.0 is not to reward you for your personal achievement, but rather to group you with others with whom you will have competitive matches. It doesn't even necessarily mean that you got any better (e.g., they could be trying to increase the size of the 5.0 pool).

I get that getting to 5.0 can be seen as a personal goal, and that's fine as long as it's taken with a pinch of salt because NTRP is not a perfect measure of skill. To be a true measure it would need to be more sophisticated (e.g. differentiate between singles and doubles, etc).
100% agree... and an err on my part to consider NTRP bumps as a sign of improvement... which is partly why i think using UTR should be the only way we compare skill levels.
 

schmke

Legend
100% agree... and an err on my part to consider NTRP bumps as a sign of improvement... which is partly why i think using UTR should be the only way we compare skill levels.
I wouldn't say NTRP bumps have zero correlation with improvement, but yes, due to adjustments the USTA may choose to make for other reasons, it isn't perfect correlation.

Similarly, UTR may have a higher correlation as a sign of improvement, but that is still subject to the details of how the rating is calculated and from what results and if those are representative for the player and whether or not tweaks or changes are made to the UTR calculation.
 

5sets

Hall of Fame
this sounds pretty promising... [fyi: on tapatalk this comment is cut off]

Universal Tennis Builds Momentum for UTR – Announces New CEO, Ownership and Partners
Universal Tennis announces new CEO Mark Leschly, seasoned and experienced partners group and strategic partnership with Tennis Channel

(January 3, 2018) Universal Tennis announced a series of strategic moves today that sets the stage for Universal Tennis Rating (UTR) to continue its positive impact on the sport by providing tennis players worldwide with a single, unifying language and standard:



  • Universal Tennis announced Mark Leschly, Founder and Managing Partner of Iconica Partners, has come on as principal owner, Chairman and CEO.
  • A new partners group has purchased control of the Company led by seasoned investors, advisors and operators in tennis, sports, technology and media.
  • Universal Tennis is announcing a major strategic media partnership with Tennis Channel making UTR an integrated part of on-air broadcasts throughout 2018.


Universal Tennis Rating (UTR) is a system for providing tennis players across age, geography, gender and economics with a common language and standard. As the leading algorithm-based system for competitive tennis players, UTR has already experienced rapid grassroots adoption across college and junior levels worldwide. Now, together with heavyweights in Tennis with deep knowledge of the landscape in both technology and media, UTR is making tennis more accessible than ever before.

“Our vision with UTR is to unify tennis and improve the experience for players worldwide,” said Leschly, CEO of Universal Tennis. “We want to create a level playing field and platform where any player can get a rating, track their progress and find competitive matches at their level, regardless of where they live. Together with our partners, we’re not only making the game more accessible, but also less costly and more enjoyable for players to both find more play and improve their tennis.”

As CEO, Mark Leschly combines both an in depth knowledge and experience in sports and tennis with nearly 25 years of entrepreneurial management and investment in technology-led businesses as a venture capitalist and startup CEO. He is a former ATP ranked player selected to the Danish Davis Cup team, two-time Captain and #1 player for Harvard Men’s Tennis and a member of the USTA Foundation Advisory Board and USTA Player Development Council. Mark is the Founder and Managing Partner of Iconica Partners (www.iconicapartners.com), a principal firm investing at the interface of sports, media and technology; and the Managing Partner of Rho Capital Partners, a leading technology focused venture capital and private equity firm with over $2.5B under management (www.rho.com). He is an owner in several sports teams and leagues including the Los Angeles Football Club (Major League Soccer team in LA), Professional Fighters League (a new MMA league), Team Liquid (esports) and Oklahoma City Dodgers (AAA Minor League baseball team).

Joining the new ownership group are seasoned investors, advisors and operators in tennis, sports, technology and media including:



  • Mark Hurd, CEO of Oracle
  • Ken Solomon, President of Tennis Channel
  • Ken Hao, Managing Partner, Silver Lake Partners
  • Jan Leschly, former CEO of SmithKline Beecham, Top 10 ATP player and former Chairman of Tennis Hall of Fame
  • The Tennis Media Company
  • Major League Baseball
  • LA Dodgers investment group


Together with its investors and partners, Universal Tennis is working to foster the growth of tennis at all levels. UTR is supported and actively used by hundreds and thousands of players in more than 200 countries, as well as leading coaches and tennis programs from around the world.

To further build on this momentum, Tennis Channel will be using the UTR system on-air immediately in live coverage, sharing the UTR Power Index, a daily snapshot of top tennis player matchups, potential upsets and trends.

“UTR is building a powerful global tennis standard and language by which all players everywhere can measure, track, develop and interact,” said Tennis Channel President Ken Solomon. “The opportunity for this powerful tool to help us make the game even more accessible to an ever-widening universe is unprecedented.”

Universal Tennis is committed to bringing the best of technology to supporting, enhancing and growing the game of tennis for everyone to make it more enjoyable and engaging. Just as every golfer carries a handicap that’s applicable on any course, any tennis player can sign up for free for their UTR at www.MyUTR.com to see how their level of play compares to others.

About Universal Tennis:
Universal Tennis is the company behind UTR, a revolutionary system that provides a single, unifying language and standard for tennis players across ages, geographies and genders. The company’s vision is to unify tennis for everyone by bringing cutting edge analytics and community based technology to tennis players worldwide independent of level. UTR is a unique, algorithm-based system for tennis that allows anyone to measure, identify and track their level relative to other players, while also providing tools for coaches and organizers to run UTR Powered Events that are level based rather than age or gender driven. Today the UTR system is powered by over 6 million match results, across 600 thousand players in nearly 200 countries. To sign up for UTR, please visit www.MyUTR.com.
I do like the new color scheme and font of the website this year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G928A using Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
interesting utr ceo interview:
they're showcasing utr as it applies to pros
comparing and contrasting "power ratings" (utr) of pros, compared to their actual rankings.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
in terms of accuracy, maybe they have more data on the east coast?

I started to dig though mine ....

I am "projected" for singles with 15 matches in (more than 9 USTA matches league and 3 USTA tourney matches that aren't in), "rated beta" for doubles with 27 matches in (more than 18 USTA league matches and 4 tournament matches not in)

I will consider it a useful tool when a level does in fact make a competitive match FOR ADULTS. Right now, level "2" is a joke with players as low as 2.5 and all the way up to 4.0 in it.
 
With regards to 3.0 vs. 3.5 vs 4.0, I think it's pretty accurate.
Maybe nuances are lost (pusher 4.0 vs aggressive erratic 4.0)
But, I think a 3.5 will usually beat a 3.0 and a 4.0 will usually beat a 3.5
This level of granularity seems more than adequate for it's purpose: create a match that does not end in 6-0 6-0
If you want comparison rankings, the best way is to simply play each other directly!
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
...like the clothing industry has done with women's sizes...

Recently got an email from UTR... updating my rating.
lol a solid "7+"... which by some charts is equiv to 3.5 NTRP.
curious, i perused a dozen or so players (players i've lost to, beaten, and play equal too)...
in general it seems like UTR is much much better at establishing relative ratings (especially compared to much better players (pros, juniors, college, etc...)

on these boards we spend alot of time debating 3.0 vs. 4.0 vs. 5.0... when, to me it just seems like a way for USTA to arbitrarily make their leagues more inclusive (ie. more $$$).
eg. too many folks at "4.0", let's even the distribution curve, and bump folks up... which also now creates a "5.0" league where one did not exist before.

seems like utr's beta of including usta matches in their ratings is becoming more and more accurate.

anywho, from now on we should be comparing utr ratings, which is more realistic (albeit humbling)

discuss!

I am now officially rating myself a strong 5.5 !!!!
I will no longer associate with folks below my superb tennis abilities
I am in Vegas and I can just make up stuff and I also have a black belt in BJJ and an IQ of 160 !!!
 

tennis4me

Hall of Fame
My rating is higher in Europe due to the metric system. :D

I remember USTA once lowered around 90+ of 5.5 men to 5.0 including someone who won the 5.5 Grand Prix. From hearsay it was due to lack of 5.5 players to create a league and/or to make the section more competitive during National.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
NTRP is marketing hype designed to inflate egos...

Actually, posting on YouTube or TT forums with your supposed rating is more about inflated egos than an actual rating based on performance. Leagues are a marketing gimmick in that most of the money is diverted to USTA main programs for EVERYTHING but league and league development.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Actually, posting on YouTube or TT forums with your supposed rating is more about inflated egos than an actual rating based on performance. Leagues are a marketing gimmick in that most of the money is diverted to USTA main programs for EVERYTHING but league and league development.
hmm... so you're saying i should elim my ntrp from my sig, and prevent folks from posting vids of me? noted.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
hmm... so you're saying i should elim my ntrp from my sig, and prevent folks from posting vids of me? noted.
Is it still ego inflating for people to post videos of you on here in order to ridicule them and call you 2-3 levels below your actual rating? Asking for a friend...
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Is it still ego inflating for people to post videos of you on here in order to ridicule them and call you 2-3 levels below your actual rating? Asking for a friend...

I find that posting vids on here is more humbling (vs ego inflating) as people tend to be harsh about the feedback (which is good for me, as I want tips on how to improve!)

some folks rated me 2 levels lower than my actual ntrp rating based on one of the vids posted asking for feedback, which doesn’t bother me, as long as you can back that critique with good useable advice!

it’s ironic, I originally thought to add my ntrp to my sig, so folks could weight my comments to be coming from a rec player (vs a high level college player)

anywho, the point of this thread was that utr is a more accurate assessment of level based on results.... vs ntrp which is a just an arbitrary grouping of players of similar ability, which seems to be subject to change based on the number of players in that group (ie it’s a tool for evenly distributing players)

this thread was inspired after seeing what my utr rating was, and comparing it to the juniors i saw in a high level B12 tourney. I was a full utr point (based on what I can see on my free utr subscription) lower than these competing juniors... which made me realize how much tennis talent there was out there (and how little I had!)
 

dsb

Rookie
<snip>...this thread was inspired after seeing what my utr rating was, and comparing it to the juniors i saw in a high level B12 tourney. I was a full utr point (based on what I can see on my free utr subscription) lower than these competing juniors... which made me realize how much tennis talent there was out there (and how little I had!)
I think this is one of the problems with UTR in the US at this time... There isn't enough overlap currently to make a fair comparison. The B12's play a lot of UTR reported matches while you, and those you normally play against play very few. If you were to play in a UTR tournament with those B12's I think you would do a lot better than your relative UTR ratings would indicate. Until there are more de-segregated tournaments in the US where men, juniors (M&F), and women all play each other this discrepancy will continue.

...or I could be full of crap.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
I guess I was always confused at NTRP ratings and USTA ratings. I find that USTA rated 3.0 in my area consists of players that would be NTRP rated 3.0-4.0. So if you talk to someone that plays USTA matches all the time, their definition of a 3.0 is very different than someone that only refers to NTRP in a non-organized play setting. So in that regard, I think NTRP would be inflating my ego if I actually paid any attention to it.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
I guess I was always confused at NTRP ratings and USTA ratings. I find that USTA rated 3.0 in my area consists of players that would be NTRP rated 3.0-4.0. So if you talk to someone that plays USTA matches all the time, their definition of a 3.0 is very different than someone that only refers to NTRP in a non-organized play setting. So in that regard, I think NTRP would be inflating my ego if I actually paid any attention to it.
Given that NTRP is an artificial construct whose ONLY purpose is to help people play USTA leagues and tournaments, any time you see anyone who "only refers to NTRP in a non-organized play setting", they're just making stuff up and it's completely meaningless.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
...like the clothing industry has done with women's sizes...

Recently got an email from UTR... updating my rating.
lol a solid "7+"... which by some charts is equiv to 3.5 NTRP.
curious, i perused a dozen or so players (players i've lost to, beaten, and play equal too)...
in general it seems like UTR is much much better at establishing relative ratings (especially compared to much better players (pros, juniors, college, etc...)

on these boards we spend alot of time debating 3.0 vs. 4.0 vs. 5.0... when, to me it just seems like a way for USTA to arbitrarily make their leagues more inclusive (ie. more $$$).
eg. too many folks at "4.0", let's even the distribution curve, and bump folks up... which also now creates a "5.0" league where one did not exist before.

seems like utr's beta of including usta matches in their ratings is becoming more and more accurate.

anywho, from now on we should be comparing utr ratings, which is more realistic (albeit humbling)

discuss!
more 5.0 leagues are the must. we ex-college players to have fun too. I got a letter saying I am Solid 4.5 +. this is very accurate. When I was rated by Phil Dent's staff about 15 years ago, they also gave me rating of 4.5 Plus. didn't know what Plus meant but it means you are top 4.5 player
 
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