NTRP rating from tournaments vs leagues

[Erlang]

Is there a difference between how league matches factor into a rating vs tournament matches?

I know a self-rated 3.0 who played a couple of 3.5 singles tournaments and compiled a decent record, beating a few 3.5s and losing respectably, except in this one match against a guy who ended up bumped to 4.0. He's now a computer-rated 3.0 which makes zero sense if you saw how he hits

On the other hand another guy who was a self-rate 3.5 playing mostly 3.5 leagues with basically a 0.500 record is now a computer rated 3.5. The kicker is, the 3.5 got straight setted by the 3.0 in a tournament

 

[schmke]

Depends where the player plays. Some sections don't include tournament results in calculating a year-end rating, so the first player's 3.0C may not have incorporated tournament results at all and thus it wouldn't have hurt the 3.5C either. And of course, one result may not move a rating much if there are a lot of other matches that were played.

 

[Erlang]

Depends where the player plays. Some sections don't include tournament results in calculating a year-end rating, so the first player's 3.0C may not have incorporated tournament results at all and thus it wouldn't have hurt the 3.5C either. And of course, one result may not move a rating much if there are a lot of other matches that were played.

How would I find out if the section (Intermountain) counts tournaments?

If the section doesn't count tournaments then it would all make sense. 3.0C played only in a spring 3.0 league and wasn't particularly great.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I've never understood why tournaments do not count. I suppose that they don't want to give even less incentive to play tournaments, since the turn out is already so low.

 

[schmke]

How would I find out if the section (Intermountain) counts tournaments?

If the section doesn't count tournaments then it would all make sense. 3.0C played only in a spring 3.0 league and wasn't particularly great.

Intermountain does count sanctioned NTRP tournaments in year-end calculations. So the players you mention must have simply played more league matches that said they should be the level they ended up at that outweighed the tournament results.

 

[schmke]

I've never understood why tournaments do not count. I suppose that they don't want to give even less incentive to play tournaments, since the turn out is already so low.

A couple reasons probably.

First is not wanting to get players a way to tank matches and manage their rating. For example, Southern doesn't include tournaments nor do they include any other non-advancing leagues. The reason here might be that they want only the matches that "are important", e.g. those that can get you to Nationals, where players play all out, to count for ratings.

Second, it may be perceived that even sanctioned tournaments are not as reliable for calculating ratings that will be used for league play. For example, some players play only tournaments and so aren't "connected" directly to other league players, so using a match or two a league player plays against them could skew the league players rating. Or you often have a lot of players playing up in tournaments which can also skew ratings.

 

[Erlang]

Intermountain does count sanctioned NTRP tournaments in year-end calculations. So the players you mention must have simply played more league matches that said they should be the level they ended up at that outweighed the tournament results.

Does that mean tournament matches weight less than league matches?

 

[NTRPolice]

You need to see if your section uses tournament results in YER calculations.

Here, since tournaments do not count, two things generally happen:

1) Sanctioned NTRP tournaments tend to have poor attendance, even though ratings do not count. Prizes for these weekend tournaments are pretty weak so no one really cares about them. Since very few people show up, the tournament directors often encourage people towards helping them making fuller draws. That basically means lots of people will be playing at level in the mid ranges, or playing up in the low ranges. This is why you may see 3.0's playing 3.5 and even 4.0--because only three 3.0's showed up. Since the best players "at level" almost never come to these things, players playing up tend to be more successful the lower rated they tend to be. A strong 3.0 wants to "test out some 3.5's and 4.0's" without damaging their NTRP and they're playing the worst 3.5's and 4.0's who have shown up.

2) Unsanctioned NTRP tournaments tend to draw all of the sandbaggers. All of the best combo/mixed teams show up at these because it doesnt count towards NTRP rating and the prizes are significantly better. You actually get nicer prizes for winning some of these weekend tournaments than you do for winning sectionals. Well, except for maybe stealing a USTA banner, especially one from Nationals, as those are priceless.

TBH, if tournaments counted towards NTRP, if I started losing, i'd probably just dump. Dumping only affects that weekend, unlike dumping mid season which affects the whole team. At least there would be some inventive for dumpers to just dump against each other in these tournaments and keep it out of league. It really disgusts me to see dumping in 3.0 or 3.5 when the known dumpers are dumping against really inferior players who are clearly playing for fun or health reasons.

 

[CosmosMpower]

Anyone know if TX uses tourney results in NTRP calculations?

 

[NumbersGuy]

Anyone know if TX uses tourney results in NTRP calculations?

Yes TX does

 

[rchjr2091]

You need to see if your section uses tournament results in YER calculations.

Here, since tournaments do not count, two things generally happen:

1) Sanctioned NTRP tournaments tend to have poor attendance, even though ratings do not count. Prizes for these weekend tournaments are pretty weak so no one really cares about them. Since very few people show up, the tournament directors often encourage people towards helping them making fuller draws. That basically means lots of people will be playing at level in the mid ranges, or playing up in the low ranges. This is why you may see 3.0's playing 3.5 and even 4.0--because only three 3.0's showed up. Since the best players "at level" almost never come to these things, players playing up tend to be more successful the lower rated they tend to be. A strong 3.0 wants to "test out some 3.5's and 4.0's" without damaging their NTRP and they're playing the worst 3.5's and 4.0's who have shown up.

2) Unsanctioned NTRP tournaments tend to draw all of the sandbaggers. All of the best combo/mixed teams show up at these because it doesnt count towards NTRP rating and the prizes are significantly better. You actually get nicer prizes for winning some of these weekend tournaments than you do for winning sectionals. Well, except for maybe stealing a USTA banner, especially one from Nationals, as those are priceless.
.

What I don't understand is these tournament directors in my area do not promote the events in the least. Sure it's on the usta app but why not use Facebook Twitter etc? One tournament may be cancelled yet I've never seen anything done to promote it.
I follow tennis in my city religiously and it's easy for me to miss it much less someone who doesn't have the tournament saved in his iPad calendar. Much more should be done to get the word out.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

What I don't understand is these tournament directors in my area do not promote the events in the least. Sure it's on the usta app but why not use Facebook Twitter etc? One tournament may be cancelled yet I've never seen anything done to promote it.
I follow tennis in my city religiously and it's easy for me to miss it much less someone who doesn't have the tournament saved in his iPad calendar. Much more should be done to get the word out.

Answer: they don't get paid to promote tournaments. They get paid to fill courts for court fees. If the same number of courts are filled otherwise, there is no incentive to promote a tournament.

Have someone making a commission off of tourney entries and enrollment will be through the roof before you know it.

 

[rchjr2091]

Answer: they don't get paid to promote tournaments. They get paid to fill courts for court fees. If the same number of courts are filled otherwise, there is no incentive to promote a tournament.

Have someone making a commission off of tourney entries and enrollment will be through the roof before you know it.

Sad but true

 

[winchestervatennis]

Anyone know if Southern counts tournaments? Paging @schmke

 

[schmke]

Anyone know if Southern counts tournaments? Paging @schmke

Southern does not (unless something has recently changed)

 

[spinerella]

Southern does not (unless something has recently changed)

Schmke,

Does the Mid-Atlantic count sanctioned tournaments?

 

[OnTheLine]

And for those sections that do count them, are they weighted as heavily as a league match?

 

[schmke]

Schmke,

Does the Mid-Atlantic count sanctioned tournaments?

I have been told, yes.

 

[spinerella]

And for those sections that do count them, are they weighted as heavily as a league match?

Good question - anybody know the answer?
I know playoffs, sectional, etc. are weighted more than league play. What about sanctioned tournaments?

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