NTRP Rating & Question!

shindemac

Hall of Fame
He looks like a strong 3.5 to me. He needs to add more pace and placement on his serve. His footwork is poor and his strokes lack pace and spin. His volleys are okay, but that's because the other guy sucks, a 2.0. :)
 

ohplease

Professional
He looks like a strong 3.5 to me. He needs to add more pace and placement on his serve. His footwork is poor and his strokes lack pace and spin. His volleys are okay, but that's because the other guy sucks, a 2.0. :)

You're high. This guy shows up at a 3.5 league match and the other team files grievances. He MIGHT be able to get away with sandbagging at 4.0.

I wouldn't be the least surprised to hear he's a 4.5, or even a current college player.
 

Duzza

Legend
Umm server is at least 5.0. Even that I'd be surprised with. Shindemac is smoking something, but I don't want any of it.
 

shindemac

Hall of Fame
You're high. This guy shows up at a 3.5 league match and the other team files grievances. He MIGHT be able to get away with sandbagging at 4.0.

I wouldn't be the least surprised to hear he's a 4.5, or even a current college player.

I agree; It's a bit high. But I wanted to be generous today. Maybe high 3.0 to ghigh 3.5. %-)
 

x Southpaw x

Semi-Pro
I'd say at least 4.5 can't tell. The mismatch is too much. He hits well but I think his style looks ugly. Then again I think roddick's serve style looks ugly too.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
He looks like a strong 3.5 to me. He needs to add more pace and placement on his serve. His footwork is poor and his strokes lack pace and spin. His volleys are okay, but that's because the other guy sucks, a 2.0. :)

I would agree with this. The guy couldn't get a first serve in to save his life>>>>> he missed 6 of his first 8 serves. Additionally, his opponent is horrible (2.5 maybe??).

After that I couldn't even watch it anymore.
 

Mikael

Professional
It's an interesting video because the guy looks amazing at first glance, very powerful, but then you realize he makes pretty dumb mistakes (especially at the end with the drills) and his first serve percentage is very low. However if you watch the second point only you realize there is too much technique and athleticism for him to be only a 3.5. I'd say he's something like a strong 4.0/weak 4.5.
 
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Hokiez

Rookie
I'd throw him at 4.5 at least. His serve could certainly use some work, but his ground strokes have nice spin, pace, and placement.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
He looks like a strong 3.5 to me. He needs to add more pace and placement on his serve. His footwork is poor and his strokes lack pace and spin. His volleys are okay, but that's because the other guy sucks, a 2.0. :)

An avg 20something 4.0 here. Btw, know a MAC champ who is rated 4.5 so its hard to get excited.
 

power_play21

Semi-Pro
no way. 5.0.

this guy is not a 5.0. a coach at a tennis club i hit sometimes is a 5.0, and he would really give this guy a hard time, he would punish those 2nd serves pretty good, and those bad approach shots that he just sits there waiting, he would get passed all day.
 

OrangeOne

Legend
Anyone who is saying 3.5 or 4.0 is dreaming, completely dreaming. Look at the pace on the groundstrokes! Ok - so he's no 5.5, and he's a bit inconsistent with some 'interesting' style elements (hands somewhat 'far' apart on the BH grip, FH take-back and prep quite ugly), but the guy would destroy many players just with pace & placement.
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
He's definitely better than any 3.5 or 4.0 that I've ever seen so I'm going with 4.5 at a minimum.
 

knasty131

Professional
how can you tell??? its impossible without being put under pressure...when do you see a several shot rally??? almost never...i think this guy is alright, but even his first serve (that he never gets in) would probably be the 4th best on my tennis team...i dont think he is all that impressive...you put me against a player several levels below me and ill look damn good too
 

knasty131

Professional
and to those who say he hits hard...notice where he is getting fed balls...they are all allowing him to be 2 or 3 steps inside the baseline...
 

OrangeOne

Legend
and to those who say he hits hard...notice where he is getting fed balls...they are all allowing him to be 2 or 3 steps inside the baseline...

Yup, they're there to be put away. But, unlike many players, he is indeed putting them away, with force at that.
 

knasty131

Professional
so this guy is being rated a 5.0 because he is putting away shots that he is absolutely supposed to be putting away?
 

OrangeOne

Legend
so this guy is being rated a 5.0 because he is putting away shots that he is absolutely supposed to be putting away?

You're joining dots I didn't put out there. I said there's no way he's 3.5 or 4, and there's no way he's 5.5. I left 4.5 to 5 open....

For the record (and to slightly re-phrase what I said previously): There are shots that people should absolutely be put away at any level, from 2.5 to 7.0 to Federer, and everything in between. Just because someone puts away shots that should be put away doesn't in any way limit their level, and in some ways it can indeed show off their level....
 
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L

lordmanji

Guest
he's pretty good. i'd say probably 5.0-5-5.

you can't tell much from the match other than that he's got good technique on serve, volley and smash. he hits one good bh. but really his opponent doesnt give him too much trouble and it woulda been nice to see him hit some return games.
 

35ft6

Legend
He looks about 5.0.

During the points, it looks pretty obvious to me that his opponent is playing the stooge, intentionally giving him easy shots. So who knows how well he hits under pressure and on the run, but just by the way his strokes are grooved, and the power he can generate, I would say 5.0. He could be even better, maybe even a strong 5.5, but you just can't tell from this.
 

Hot Sauce

Hall of Fame
I would agree with this. The guy couldn't get a first serve in to save his life>>>>> he missed 6 of his first 8 serves. Additionally, his opponent is horrible (2.5 maybe??).

After that I couldn't even watch it anymore.

And his second serve looks better than most 3.5's.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Come on..that guy is way better then a 3.5 what are you guys smoking? Go look at the 4.0 video of an actual 4.0 league match posted here. He would cream either of those guys. So he is probably a 4.5..

Pete
 

OrangeOne

Legend
STOP posting the same guy

i agree duck, how many threads on this guy are there going to be?

If someone comes across a rating-discussion video on youtube or similar, well it's pretty hard to know if it's been discussed on here before without reading every video analysis thread ever, unless searching for the youtube link works? I wonder if it does?

Edit: it does work... then I guess it's all as simple as encouraging people to indeed search based on the unique video ID part of the link before posting.
 
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kevhen

Hall of Fame
5.0-6.0. He's a lefty serve and volleyer who can hit a very good slice serve and place his flat serves too. He sticks his vollies too. Only watched first two minutes. If his overhead is good he should be playing D1.

Is he the new John McEnroe?
 
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300Gkid

Professional
lol i think it is very difficult (i think impossible) to judge his NTRP from this video. First of all, his groundstrokes look a little sketchy and who knows if they would hold up against a harder hitting opponent. 2nd, he's getting easy balls on groundstrokes and volleys, im just guessing but i'd say 4.5, however i dont think its fair to grade him until we see him against better opposition.
 

Jonas

Semi-Pro
Any of you guys that say that the young guy in the video (serving) is a 3.5 or 4.0 are smoking crack.
This guy is 5.0 AT THE VERY LEAST.......unbelievable.
 

Anton

Legend
This guy looks like he plays lefty because he likes to twirl his racket while consuming breakfast/lunch/dinner with his right one.

This is a sloppy 5.5 player who can be beaten by 4.5 on a right day.
 

OrangeOne

Legend
This guy looks like he plays lefty because he likes to twirl his racket while consuming breakfast/lunch/dinner with his right one.

??

This is a sloppy 5.5 player who can be beaten by 4.5 on a right day.

Err, no legitimate 5.5 would be beaten by a 4.5, ever. Not even once in 50 matches. Probably would be mostly 6-0 and 6-1 sets....
 

Anton

Legend
??



Err, no legitimate 5.5 would be beaten by a 4.5, ever. Not even once in 50 matches. Probably would be mostly 6-0 and 6-1 sets....

Tennis is just not all about skill, there is a big psychological component and I get the vibe that this guy has a high standard deviation in his game quality and implodes once in a while.

I play a guy that reminds me very much of this guy's style (roddikish) and we usually split games. Sometimes he is just on fire and kicks me 6-0 even if I play a very consistent game, other times he really can't keep it together for even a two ball rally and has the ball flying all over.

It's hard to judge too much out just out of this footage, but like I said this guy looks like unstable 5.5

Guide:

5.0
FOREHAND: Strong shot with control, depth, and spin; uses FH to set up offensive situations; has developed good touch; consistent on passing shots
BACKHAND: Can use BH as an aggressive shot with good consistency; has good direction and depth on most shots; varies spin
SERVE/RETURN OF SERVE: Serve is placed effectively with the intent of hitting to a weakness or developing an offensive situation; has a variety of serves to rely on; good depth, spin, and placement on most second serves to force weak return or set up next shot; can mix aggressive and off-paced service returns with control, depth, and spin
VOLLEY: Can hit most volleys with depth, pace, and direction; plays difficult volleys with depth; given opportunity, volley is often hit for a winner
SPECIAL SHOTS: Approach shots and passing shots are hit with pace and a high degree of effectiveness; can lob offensively; overhead can be hit from any position; hits mid-court volley with consistency; can mix aggressive and off-paced service returns
PLAYING STYLE: Frequently has an outstanding shot or attribute around which his game is built; can vary game plan according to opponent; this player is 'match wise,' plays percentage tennis, and 'beats himself' less than the 4.5 player; solid teamwork in doubles is evident; game breaks down mentally and physically more often than the 5.5 player

5.5
This player can hit dependable shots in stress situations; has developed good anticipation; can pick up cues from such things as opponent's toss, body position, backswing, preparation; first and second serves can be depended on in stress situations and can be hit offensively at any time; can analyze and exploit opponent's weaknesses; has developed power and /or consistency as a major weapon; can vary strategies and style of play in a competitive situation.

We really cannot judge this accurately without seeing him in a competitive match - mine is just a guess, but he is definitely somewhere between these two.

P.S. He takes his racket back for a backhand with face completely up like I used to sometime ago - bad habbit, not too bad though.
 
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OrangeOne

Legend
Tennis is just not all about skill, there is a big psychological component and I get the vibe that this guy has a high standard deviation in his game quality and implodes once in a while.

I play a guy that reminds me very much of this guy's style (roddikish) and we usually split games, though once in a while his is just on fire and kicks me 6-0 even if I play a very consistent game.

It's hard to judge too much out just out of this footage, but like I said this guy looks like unstable 5.5

So many replies:

a. I get the feeling you're rating his 'strokes', not him as a player. There is no such thing as 5.5 strokes, there are 5.5 players.

b. There are very, very few 'unstable' 5.5s, by definition.

c. There are no 5.5s unstable enough to not beat a 4.5 on any given day. A 5.5 having the worst day of their life will find a way to comfortably beat a 4.5.

d. All up: you're saying he's not 5.5, and with that, I probably agree. I think 5.0 is where he sits, or thereabouts. Keep in mind, 5.5 is one step off being on the lower levels of the pro tour, and this guy is not at that level.
 
What strikes me immediately about this kid is that he likely has never played in an NTRP division, nor will he ever.

He is an Open player.

He looks to be about 20 years old. He probably had a decent sectional ranking in juniors, played line 1 or 2 for his high school, and is now playing for the local Division 3 college. He seems pretty cocky, but undeservedly so. He is no doubt athletic and has some shot-making ability, but I don't think he has the technique or the mentality to succeed at higher levels of competition. I really doubt he had any real success at the juniors level either, besides having a ranking and being Mr. Big Shot for his high school's team.

His forehand in particular is too wristy and has a huge backswing, which would be one of the first shots I can see "breaking down" against a more powerful and skilled opponent. His volleys are the type of volleys I always see in superchamp boys: they swing too much and try to be too fancy with every single shot. Looks great on camera, especially when you have your best buddy feeding you lollipops for passing shots, but what happens when you don't have time to take a big swinging hack at every volley? Actually, I think this kid probably copied his volleys from Andy Roddick while he was trying (poorly) to immitate his serve. I was expecting to see alot more action/spin on this kid's serve and he clearly was lacking in the control & placement department (lots of missed serves). I did actually like his backhand though, but I suspect he may be prone to attempting to drive it down the line too frequently or go for too much with it, resulting in unforced errors.

But that's alot of judgement to pass on someone I've barely seen play. Not to mention the fact that his opponent/friend/coach was clearly trying to exaggerate this kid's skill by playing poorly and setting him up for some easy shots.

I agree with the previous poster that labled this kid as a "sloppy 5.5 player" who can often be beaten by weaker opponents on an off day. If he was playing in NTRP's I bet he'd do very well in 5.0. But as it were, I'm guessing this kid plays in the Open divisions and is probably the type that routinely destroys his first round opponent only to get his own arse handed to him in the next round by the real players in the draw. If he played Futures he would get pwnd.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
He looks about 5.0.

During the points, it looks pretty obvious to me that his opponent is playing the stooge, intentionally giving him easy shots. So who knows how well he hits under pressure and on the run, but just by the way his strokes are grooved, and the power he can generate, I would say 5.0. He could be even better, maybe even a strong 5.5, but you just can't tell from this.

Hey man, Did you see my thread on high level play and NTRP ratings. If not, please give it a read and chime in, I would like to hear your opinion.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=118505

J
 
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