NTRP Ratings: Is USTA Losing the Script?

[Yamin]

There is no accurate rating system. Think USTA will be fine given they're the main driver of competitive leagues

 

[onehandbh]

I'm torn on whether I think USTA should make their full ratings and algorithm transparent or not. On the one hand, it could boost confidence in their system and perhaps help improve it if people find mistakes - like the benefits of open-source software. On the other hand, I see their point about the shenanigans and manipulation that could result - maybe even worse than what already happens.

I like transparency and open source.

btw, does UTR make their algorithm transparent?

The ATP does. Imagine if the ATP made their ranking system secret.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

I mean how does usta really define their ratings?
You can play in ladders or ultimate tennis etc. be a 4.5 or 5.0 and come into usta and they can drop you a level? I haven’t done usta team tennis ever - just tourneys when I was in high school and college

 

[Moveforwardalways]

There is no perfect rating system. More importantly, there is no rating system that is immune to lying or sandbagging. So just get over it. If you want to win, do what you need to do. If you want fun matches, go what you need to do. Switching to UTR or any other system will not change that.

 

[GrassCourtFan]

I mean how does usta really define their ratings?
You can play in ladders or ultimate tennis etc. be a 4.5 or 5.0 and come into usta and they can drop you a level? I haven’t done usta team tennis ever - just tourneys when I was in high school and college

They've got a rating system. You start by self-rating at about where you think you are to get started close to the right level based on their questionnaire (or, even better, by hitting with someone who has an established rating), then get an actual rating based on the people you beat or lose to.

They could certainly drop you a level compared to other rating systems (or raise you - it's a totally different rating system). A UTR 5.0 definitely is not going to be an NTRP 5.0 XD. And I certainly don't know how various random ladders do their rating systems, they probably don't match up to USTA unless they make an effort to.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

They've got a rating system. You start by self-rating at about where you think you are to get started close to the right level based on their questionnaire (or, even better, by hitting with someone who has an established rating), then get an actual rating based on the people you beat or lose to.

They could certainly drop you a level compared to other rating systems (or raise you - it's a totally different rating system). A UTR 5.0 definitely is not going to be an NTRP 5.0 XD. And I certainly don't know how various random ladders do their rating systems, they probably don't match up to USTA unless they make an effort to.

Yeah I’m familiar with the variances between utr-usta rating.

I mean I’m 34. I don’t care to play usta bc I don’t really have time. I just join ladders and other leagues that basically have you schedule as many matches needed in the division within a 2-4 month span. Much more flexible that way

 

[naylor73]

There is no perfect rating system. More importantly, there is no rating system that is immune to lying or sandbagging. So just get over it. If you want to win, do what you need to do. If you want fun matches, go what you need to do. Switching to UTR or any other system will not change that.

This is true. However, this could be at least partially corrected if the usta would actually do some monitoring of playing levels in matches and tournaments. IMO, as long as the USTA is getting our money, they're content with keeping things exactly how they are.

 

[TennisOTM]

I like transparency and open source.

btw, does UTR make their algorithm transparent?

The ATP does. Imagine if the ATP made their ranking system secret.

UTR's algorithm is not fully transparent and definitely not open source. They provide information about how the algorithm works but leave out the details, and it's complicated enough to be nearly impossible to replicate. They do give you your fine-tuned rating with regular updates (which USTA does not) for free, and you can see everyone's exact rating if you subscribe.

The ATP point-based ranking system not really analogous to NTRP ratings - it's just earning points for tournament wins. USTA has a similar point system for NTRP tournaments, which is transparent I believe.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

This is true. However, this could be at least partially corrected if the usta would actually do some monitoring of playing levels in matches and tournaments. IMO, as long as the USTA is getting our money, they're content with keeping things exactly how they are.

How are they supposed to monitor that though? Send an official to every local park and club in America for every match?

 

[naylor73]

You think it's out of line to ask that the USTA monitor peoples ratings based on the honor system?

 

[Creighton]

How are they supposed to monitor that though? Send an official to every local park and club in America for every match?

Could easily have the local league coordinator spot check matches.

Then hold people accountable at playoffs where it’s obvious people are out of level.

 

[PK6]

Sandbaggers/cheaters must be punished as well a—holes rating themselves to low!!! As I’ve said before. This makes my decision to quit USTA soo much better as it’s waste of time.

 

[travlerajm]

Sandbaggers/cheaters must be punished as well a—holes rating themselves to low!!! As I’ve said before. This makes my decision to quit USTA soo much better as it’s waste of time.

Out of curiosity, what % of the players you faced in usta were sandbagger cheaters?

 

[PK6]

90%

 

[travlerajm]

90%

That does sound like a lot.

 

[travlerajm]

90%

Have you considering appealing down?

 

[PK6]

That does sound like a lot.

That’s why I got fed up-with all the $$$ spent on lessons with tennis professionals I sick and tired on losing despite the advice I was given. Needless to say I can finally enjoy summer without the stress/heat/humidity/muggy sticky weather outdoors as well playing in sauna indoors.

 

[PK6]

Have you considering appealing down?

No!!! I got fed up playing against ringers with different partners who didn’t care if they win or lost. I’ve spent to much $$$ to deal with losing as I told captain I want to play with strong men/women 3.5 but they say they will only to put me with weaker players and lose 60/61-if I’m lucky maybe win 3 games-not worth playing anymore as I can finally enjoy summer without dealing with the stresses of working then having to rush for singles outdoor matches dealing with heat humidity muggy sticky sunny windy weather as well playing indoors where it’s 100-no thanks!!! Much happier that I quit playing.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I’m glad you quit playing too. Nice move.