Number of Surfaces Mastered by ATGs

[RS]

Nadal has 2 slams indoors. DO 20 and 22.

 

[jrepac]

Indoors definitely pose a unique challenge and the fact that Nadal has nothing to show there exposes his shortcoming, it definitely should be counted as a surface. The biggest tournament indoors has always been the year end championship which is held every year and historically this has a lot of significance, the best champs every year fought for this and won it. You cannot brush it under the rug just because your man was a big flop there. Nadal fans should show good faith and accept it a legit black mark on his resume.

But, isn't there a lot of variation in the surface "indoors?" Does 'carpet' still apply anymore (the stuff we used to rollout at MSG once or twice a year...LOL)

 

[Born_to_slice]

We need the King back

Pink monster

 

[jrepac]

Federer was the one who got Carpet removed by lobbying and then forced Paris to tear up their court. Plus Federer has no Mastery over Clay. He has just 1 French Open and that too is because of his Hitman Soderling taking out Nadal in 09 to clear the way for the Maestro to win the French.

@Holmes

Thanks for the video! Really interesting...clearly I forgot (or overlooked) that carpet was banned. I think the injury claim is rubbish, honestly. The rubberized carpets were used indoors where the temperature was well controlled...vs. AO's Rebound Ace, for instance, which was heavily rubberized and turned into mush in the heat. Not saying there was never an injury, but carpet was used for a very long time and most pros adapted. I have noticed how the # of indoor events has diminished over the years, which is really too bad...hurts the game, if anything. Indoor exos are very rare these days as well. But, I would think an exo could use carpet as it's non-ATP sanctioned.

I find the "surface homogenization" part really disappointing (and a bit disturbing) as you've taken a lot of the variety out of the game. Wimbledon was not meant to be a baseline bashers event. And, who says 6hr baseline battles are oh so interesting? For me, the best matches were S&V vs. Baseliner, where the surface could then factor in. If anything, they've made the game more boring and predictable. And, shame on Paris for digging up a court twice just to please Fed.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Big 3:

Nadal 4 (windy outdoors, clay, grass and hard court)
Federer 6 (windy outdoors, clay, grass, hard court, indoors and carpet)
Djokovic 4 (indoors, clay, grass and hard court)

Nadal and Djokovic have mastered 4 surfaces and have been dominant on them all.

Federer separates himself from the other 2 with his mastery over all surfaces.

who do you think is the best 'windy indoor' player?

 

[RelentlessAttack]

Why is everybody trying to get technical by pointing that indoors is not a surface?
Even a small kid knows that playing surface is what your foot is on for walking, of course indoors is an environment and not specifically a surface, but the essence of the post is to highlight that Indoors are different conditions which need to be given importance and require versatility.

Plus the aim of the post is to show that Agassi is the only ATG on earth who doesn't have multiple slams on both Grass & Clay. So much hype for a jack of all trades....

Because you wrote “surface” in the title. You chose the battlefield, don’t then complain about people being pedantic when you’re wrong.

Indoors is a condition that impacts how the game is played but is obviously not a surface. Analogies would be things like “windy” “hot” “humid” “high altitude” etc

 

[robthai]

Fed mastered blue clay. Why is that not included?

 

[TMF]

Fed mastered blue clay. Why is that not included?

Because the name is Roger Federer, so it was ignore intentionally

 

[MichaelNadal]

Pink monster

Some of his USO day kits are both forgotten, and underrated affff

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Number of Surfaces Mastered by ATGs

Djokovic - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Clay & Indoor HC ]
Sampras - 4 [ Grass, Outdoor HC, Indoors HC & Carpets ]
Connors - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Indoor HC & Carpets ]
Lendl - 4 [ Clay, Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]
Mcenroe - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Indoor HC & Carpets]
Becker - 4 [ Grass, Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]

Federer - 3 [ Grass, Outdoor HC & Indoor HC ]
Nadal - 3 [ Clay, Grass and Outdoor HC ]
Borg - 3 [ Clay, Grass & Indoor Carpets ]
Edberg - 3 [ Grass, Outdoor HC & Indoor HC]
Agassi - 3 [ Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]

Wilander - 2 [ Clay & Outdoor HC ]

Courier - 1 [ Clay ]
Nastase - 1 [ Indoors ]
Murray - 1 [ Grass ]
Hewitt - 1 [ Indoors ]
Stich - 1 [ Indoors ]

At least 2 Slams on a single slam surface, 3 on a double slam surface, 2 WTF titles for Indoors is considered as a cut off for the list .....

Agassi is slightly overrated @BeatlesFan @Kralingen @BorgTheGOAT

Djokovic didn’t have the opportunity to master carpet, otherwise he would be on top with 5. I wouldn’t give Agassi indoor hard to be honest and it is arguable if Courier didn’t master HC. Technically he was more successful here than on clay, but we have to take into account of course that there are two slams on HC.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Just a comment about Borg. He only competed in 4 Hard Court Slam tournaments in his whole career (US Open 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981) and got to the final 3 times. I do believe he would have won eventually. Glad you gave the nod Indoors to Connors who only won 1 WTF, but I am sure you gave him credit for his two WCT Finals (and also he won more Indoor than anyone in the open era 55 official titles, many more unofficial)- you'd have to say he can play indoors.

Borg would definitely have mastered HC if it had appeared earlier in his career and if, like today, there had been two slams on HC.

 

[Born_to_slice]

Some of his USO day kits are both forgotten, and underrated affff

1st one is ok-ish, 2nd looks like a casual training kit, 3rd one is hideous.

 

[MichaelNadal]

1st one is ok-ish, 2nd looks like a casual training kit, 3rd one is hideous.

Oh ok, well that’s settled then! Lol

 

[daggerman]

Because you wrote “surface” in the title. You chose the battlefield, don’t then complain about people being pedantic when you’re wrong.

Indoors is a condition that impacts how the game is played but is obviously not a surface. Analogies would be things like “windy” “hot” “humid” “high altitude” etc

The difference is that "windy outdoor hardcourt" is a subset of "outdoor hardcourt", whereas "indoor hardcourt" is not.

"Wrong" or not, at least OP was sensible enough to speak of disjoint sets.

 

[timnz]

Borg would definitely have mastered HC if it had appeared earlier in his career and if, like today, there had been two slams on HC.

Borg beat McEnroe (who won the US Open in 1979, 1980, 1981 and 1984) on Hard at the Canadian Open 1979. He definitely was capable of beating the top guys on that surface.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

The difference is that "windy outdoor hardcourt" is a subset of "outdoor hardcourt", whereas "indoor hardcourt" is not.

"Wrong" or not, at least OP was sensible enough to speak of disjoint sets.

Does putting a roof on the court change the surface? No. Does it change the conditions of play? Yes.

Does putting a clay court at high altitude in Madrid change the surface? No. Does it change the conditions of play? Yes.

 

[TMF]

Djokovic didn’t have the opportunity to master carpet, otherwise he would be on top with 5. I wouldn’t give Agassi indoor hard to be honest and it is arguable if Courier didn’t master HC. Technically he was more successful here than on clay, but we have to take into account of course that there are two slams on HC.

LOL
Djokovic "would have" master carpet is a matter of opinion but not fact. One can say the same about many players "would have" master the wood era too if given opportunity to play on it.

Assumption has no merit, because we can do the same for every player so having this kind of discussion is pointless.

It's worth nothing that mastering on all surfaces in a homogeneous era today is easier

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

LOL
Djokovic "would have" master carpet is a matter of opinion but not fact. One can say the same about many players "would have" master the wood era too if given opportunity to play on it.

Says the guy who never gets tired to praise Federer’s blue clay prowess because of a sample size of exactly one tournament. Djokovic is good on any surface so it is absolutely realistic to assume he would have “mastered” carpet as well (definition of master is pretty broad here btw) not to the same extent as someone like Pete of course. Anywho, my point was more that he never ever had the chance to show his level on carpet so when you include both indoors AND carpet for Pete, seems a little unfair in my eyes.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Federer = Versality

Also he's the only one who mastered the blue clay

Lol speaking of which.

 

[Holmes]

LOL
Djokovic "would have" master carpet is a matter of opinion but not fact. One can say the same about many players "would have" master the wood era too if given opportunity to play on it.

Assumption has no merit, because we can do the same for every player so having this kind of discussion is pointless.

It's worth nothing that mastering on all surfaces in a homogeneous era today is easier

But Federer suggesting a tournament director of a carpet masters he never could win change the surface is a matter of fact and raises serious questions about his supposed ultra versatility, not to mention integrity.

By the way, you do know homogenization has been a thing since Federer and not something he was victimized by, right?

 

[timnz]

But Federer suggesting a tournament director of a carpet masters he never could win change the surface is a matter of fact and raises serious questions about his supposed ultra versatility, not to mention integrity.

By the way, you do know homogenization has been a thing since Federer and not something he was victimized by, right?

We just don't know about Djokovic if he would play as well on 80's speed surfaces - carpet and grass. He may very well play well, but we just don't know. Nadal I am doubtful. His worst conditions is indoor hard, so indoor carpet would have been more challenging still. Federer did play on indoor carpet, so I think we can be more confident of him handling that. He also beat Sampras in the last year that Wimbledon was on fast grass (2001), so I feel confident he would have adapted.

 

[inyourface]

And the blue sand of Madrid is tecnically another surface

 

[timnz]

I am pretty sure Novak beat Nadal on clay more times than Roger did.

My comment was responding to a comparison between Federer on clay vs Agassi indoor.