Numbers of Grand Slam losses to eventual champions.

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
I decided to start a separate thread, based on this initial thread:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...wawrinka-hewitt-roddick.728909/#post-16514342

Because that thread focuses on four players only, in its title at least, I decided to open this thread where I can lump the numbers and stats for any player, retired or active.

This list is still incomplete.

This opening post contains a list of all of the players whose stats are known, but the details of each player's defeats (who beat them) will be found in the comments themselves, which I will add later. To make it easier to find each player's post, I will include the comment number next to the player.

I didn't post this thread to prove anything, not prove or disprove weak eras, or to prove who was closest to winning a slam or more slams, or less slams. You can of course draw certain conclusions if you like, but that's not why I opened the thread. Obviously, the flaw in this system is that there is a big difference whether you lose to the slam champ in R3 or in the semis. I decided not to include those stats as well because it would make things too convoluted, and this is meant to be more of a fun list than some "serious study" in hypotheticals...

Players listed - 93:

Lendl --------- 23 ------------ 4, 5, 5, 9
Federer ------- 21 ------------ 6, 7, 4, 4
Djokovic ------ 21 ------------ 3, 9, 2, 7
Connors ------ 15 ------------ 1, 0, 6, 8
Hewitt -------- 14 ------------ 5, 4, 2, 3
Murray -------- 13 ------------ 6, 3, 3 1
Agassi --------- 12 ------------ 0, 4, 2, 6
Berdych ------- 11 ------------ 5, 1, 3, 2
Nadal --------- 11 ------------- 4, 1, 4, 2
McEnroe ------ 11 ------------- 2, 2, 3, 4
Edberg -------- 11 ------------- 5, 2, 2, 2
Chang --------- 11 ------------ 1, 2, 2, 6
Sampras ------- 10 ------------ 2, 3, 1, 4
Kafelnikov ----- 10 ------------ 4, 4, 0, 2
Roddick -------- 10 ----------- 1, 0, 5, 4
Gasquet -------- 10 ----------- 1, 3, 3, 3
Nishikori ------- 10 ------------ 3, 2, 2, 3
Henman ------- 10 ------------ 0, 1, 6, 3
Ferrero ---------- 9 ------------ 1, 3, 2, 3
Martin ---------- 9 ------------ 3, 1, 1, 4
Cilic ------------- 9 ------------ 1, 0, 3, 5
Tsonga ---------- 8 ------------ 3, 1, 4, 0
Ferrer ----------- 8 ------------- 3, 4, 1, 0
Courier --------- 8 ------------- 2, 2, 2, 2
Mecir ----------- 8 ------------- 2, 1, 3, 2
Muster ---------- 8 ------------- 3, 3, 0, 2
Haas ------------ 8 ------------- 3, 1, 2, 2
Delpo ----------- 7 ------------- 0, 3, 1, 3
Philippoussis --- 7 ------------- 1, 0, 3, 3
Ivanisevic ------- 7 ------------- 0, 1, 4, 2
A Medvedev ---- 7 ------------- 0, 6, 0, 1
Verdasco -------- 6 ------------- 2, 1, 1, 2
Wilander -------- 6 ------------- 1, 3, 1, 1
Davydenko ----- 6 ------------- 2, 1, 0, 3
Thiem ----------- 6 ------------- 1, 5, 0, 0
Raonic ---------- 6 -------------- 3, 0, 2, 1
Rusedski -------- 6 ------------- 2, 0, 2, 2
Youzhny -------- 6 -------------- 1, 0 4, 1
Anderson ------- 6 ------------- 0, 0, 4, 2
Grosjean -------- 6 ------------- 1, 2, 2, 1
Wawrinka ------- 5 ------------- 3, 2, 0, 0
Nalbandian ----- 5 ------------- 1, 1, 1, 2
Enqvist ---------- 5 ------------- 2, 1, 1, 1
Medvedev ------- 5 ------------ 3, 0, 0, 2
Stich ------------- 5 ------------ 1, 2, 1, 1
Lopez ------------ 5 ------------ 0, 0, 1, 4
Kiefer ------------ 5 ------------ 1, 0, 5, 5
Rafter ------------ 5 ------------ 2, 1, 2, 0
Jarryd ------------ 5 ------------ 1, 2, 1, 1
Soderling -------- 5 ------------ 0, 4, 1, 0
Kohlschreiber --- 4 ------------- 0, 0, 3, 1
Zverev ----------- 4 ------------ 1, 1, 0, 1
Moya ------------ 4 ------------ 1, 2, 1, 0
Schwartzman ---- 4 ------------ 1, 2, 0, 1
Gustafsson ------- 4 ------------ 2, 1, 0, 1
A Costa ---------- 4 ------------ 1, 2, 0, 1
Bautista ---------- 4 ------------ 0, 2, 1, 1
Pioline ----------- 4 ------------ 1, 1, 1, 1
Berrettini -------- 4 ------------- 1, 1, 1, 1
Corretja ---------- 4 ------------ 0, 3, 0, 1
Baghdatis -------- 4 ------------ 1, 0, 2, 1
Safin ------------- 4 ------------- 2, 0, 2, 1
Ferreira ---------- 4 ------------- 2, 1, 0, 1
Almagro --------- 4 ------------- 1, 3, 0, 0
Santoro ---------- 3 ------------- 0, 0, 0, 3
P Korda ---------- 3 ------------- 1, 1, 1, 0
Stepanek --------- 3 ------------ 1, 0, 1, 1
Volkov ----------- 3 ------------- 0, 0, 1, 3
Krajicek ---------- 2 ------------- 0, 1, 0, 1
Isner ------------- 2 ------------- 0, 1, 0, 1
Bruguera -------- 2 -------------- 1, 1, 0, 0
Rios -------------- 2 ------------- 1, 1, 0, 0
Khachanov ------ 2 -------------- 1, 0, 1, 0
B Gilbert ----- --- 2 -------------- 0, 0, 1, 1
Dimitrov --------- 2 -------------- 0, 0, 2, 0
Goffin ------------ 2 -------------- 0, 1, 1, 0
Norman ---------- 2 ------------- 0, 1, 0, 1
Tomic ------------ 2 -------------- 0, 0, 2, 0
Fognini ---------- 2 -------------- 0, 1, 1, 0
Blake ------------- 2 -------------- 0, 0, 0, 2
Kuerten ---------- 1 -------------- 0, 1, 0, 0
Ruud ------------- 1 -------------- 0, 1, 0, 0
Rosset ------------ 1 -------------- 1, 0, 0, 0
Kyrgios ----------- 1 -------------- 0, 0, 1, 0
Fritz -------------- 1 -------------- 1, 0, 0, 0
Gulbis ------------ 1 -------------- 0, 0, 1, 0
Tarango ---------- 1 -------------- 0, 0, 0, 1
Hurkacz ---------- 1 -------------- 0, 0, 1, 0
Citybus ----------- 1 -------------- 0, 1, 0, 0
Rublev ------------ 1 ------------- 0, 0, 0, 1
Monfils ----------- 1 -------------- 0, 1, 0, 0
Opelka ----------- 0 -------------
Gaudio ----------- 0 -------------
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Berdych.

AO ------- Federer 17, 18, Wawrinka 14, Djokovic 11, 13
FO ------- Djokovic 16
W -------- Murray 16, Nadal 10, Federer 06
USO ----- Cilic 14, Murray 12

11 times.

Tsonga:

AO -------- Djokovic 08, 19, Federer 10
FO -------- Wawrinka 15
W --------- Murray 12, 16, Djokovic 11, 14

8 times.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Ferrer:

AO -------- Djokovic 08, 12, 13
FO -------- Nadal 05, 12, 13, 14
W --------- Murray 12

8 times.

Fun fact: Ferrer never played Federer in a slam despite playing 17 times with him. (0-17)

Also notice how many losses are from 12-14, that was Ferrer's "shoulda won a slam" period.

Safin:

AO -------- Federer 04, Johansson 02
W --------- Federer 07, Ivanisevic 01

4 times.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Isner:

FO ------- Nadal 11
USO ----- Federer 07

Soderling:

FO -------- Nadal 06, 10, 11, Federer 09
W --------- Nadal 10

5 times.

It's pretty obvious why he disliked Nadal so much...

Monfils:

FO -------- Federer 09
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Kohlschreiber:

W --------- Djokovic 15, 19, Federer 09
USO ------ Nadal 13

4 times.

Almagro:

AO -------- Djokovic 11
FO -------- Nadal 08, 10, 12

4 times.

Henman:

FO -------- Ferrero 03
W --------- Federer 06, Hewitt 02, Ivanisevic 01, Sampras 95, 98, 99
USO ------ Federer 04, 06, Roddick 03

10 times.

Fun fact: he lost 3/4 slams to Tursunov in 2005-06.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Philippoussis

AO -------------- Agassi 00
W --------------- Federer 03, Sampras 98, 99
USO ------------ Rafter 98, Sampras 95, 96

7 times.

W99: Lead by a set when he got injured and quit.

Baghdatis

AO -------------- Federer 06
W --------------- Murray 12, Djokovic 11
USO ------------ Federr 04

4 times.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Zverev

AO -------------- Djokovic 21
FO -------------- Nadal 22
USO ------------ Thiem 20

4 times.

FO22: injury

Rublev

USO ------------ Nadal 17
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Ferrer:

AO -------- Djokovic 08, 12, 13
FO -------- Nadal 05, 12, 13, 14
W --------- Murray 12

8 times.

Fun fact: Ferrer never played Federer in a slam despite playing 17 times with him. (0-17)

Also notice how many losses are from 12-14, that was Ferrer's "shoulda won a slam" period.

Safin:

AO -------- Federer 04, Johansson 02
W --------- Federer 07, Ivanisevic 01
USO ------ Sampras 98

5 times.
Patrick Rafter won the 1998 US Open edition.
8-B
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Medvedev

AO -------------- Nadal 22, Djokovic 19, 21
USO ------------ Nadal 19, Thiem 20

5 times.

Verdasco

AO -------------- Djokovic 15, Nadal 09
FO -------------- Nadal 08
W --------------- Murray 13
USO ------------ Wawrinka 16, Nadal 10

6 times.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Grosjean

AO -------------- Agassi 03
FO -------------- Nadal 05, Moya 98
W --------------- Federer 04, Sampras 98
USO ------------ Safin 00

6 times.

Haas

AO -------------- Nadal 09, Federer 06, Kafelnikov 99
FO -------------- Federer 09
W --------------- Federer 07, 09
USO ------------ Sampras 02, Hewitt 01

8 times.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
This list tells us that the more you lose to eventual champions, usually you were also a contender?
It can tell you several things, but it can also be misleading, especially if too many losses are early rounds.

It can tell you what a golden period was for certain top players, which slams they were good at and which less so, but to learn about that stuff it's much better to read up every player's slam history (Wikipedia being the best place for this.) These stats aren't exactly ideal for that.

Of course, some users might not get anything useful out of this thread and may not understand its purpose too well...

This tells us Nadal will lose to anyone outside of RG.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
Only 11 to Nadal. What it tell us
ehWAX6.gif
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
It's fascinating how Federer and Djokovic are such different players yet they are similar in so many ways. lol Makes me think how unreal their rivalry would be if their best forms coincided.
If they had played in the 90s, pre-homogenization, and were the same age, we'd have a whole other ball game between them...

With ultra-fast 90s grass, RF would have dominated Djokovic most likely. And they wouldn't have perhaps won all four slams. Who knows.
 
If they had played in the 90s, pre-homogenization, and were the same age, we'd have a whole other ball game between them...

With ultra-fast 90s grass, RF would have dominated Djokovic most likely. And they wouldn't have perhaps won all four slams. Who knows.
I'm not really an expert in the 90s tennis :) Just think that Fedovic matches peak for peak in this era would be next level
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
I'm not really an expert in the 90s tennis :) Just think that Fedovic matches peak for peak in this era would be next level
I wouldn't worry too much about peaks and primes, those are the usual strange fan fantasies concocted to make excuses for various lop-sided H2H eras when one defeated another several times in a row and such...

For example, Nadal losing to Djokovic so often since 2011 outside of clay, there are no excuses. Djokovic was better.

Federer losing so many key matches to Nadal in the 00s... No excuses.

Federer defeated Djokovic often in their early slams, but then the situation reversed and now Djokovic has a better H2H. No excuses.

But yeah, age will always be a TTW fetish, totally misunderstood and very overrated.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
Fedovic is an underrated rivalry in the context of the big 3. I always enjoy their matches

Despite being a little lopsided, it was THE rivalry 2014-2016, when Novak was #1 and Rafa was Finnish. Federer would have won four more slams without Djokovic being at his best, only Djokovic could stop him. They played some really entertaining matches with the clash of styles; Federer being very offensive with Edberg in his corner and Novak perfecting his Lock Down Mode under Becker + the improved serve.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Nalbandian

AO -------------- Federer 04
FO -------------- Gaudio 04
W --------------- Hewitt 01
USO ------------ Federer 05, Roddick 03

5 times.

Moya

AO -------------- Sampras 97
FO -------------- Nadal 07, Agassi 99
W --------------- Ivanisevic 01

4 times.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Gonzalez

AO -------------- Nadal 09, Federer 07
FO -------------- Ferrero 03
W --------------- Federer 05

4 times.

Citybus

FO -------------- Djokovic 21
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Thiem

AO -------------- Djokovic 20
FO -------------- Nadal 14, 17, 18, 19, Djokovic 16

6 times.

Despite being so competitive at FO, he ended up winning USO where he had far less success overall.

Ferrero

AO -------------- Federer 04
FO -------------- Costa 02, Kuerten 00, 01
W --------------- Federer 05, 07
USO ------------ Delpo 09, Roddick 03, Safin 00

9 times.
 
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Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
It can tell you several things, but it can also be misleading, especially if too many losses are early rounds.

It can tell you what a golden period was for certain top players, which slams they were good at and which less so, but to learn about that stuff it's much better to read up every player's slam history (Wikipedia being the best place for this.) These stats aren't exactly ideal for that.

Of course, some users might not get anything useful out of this thread and may not understand its purpose too well...
Did you quote me by mistake? Don't answer.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Courier

AO -------------- Kafelnikov 99, Sampras 94
FO -------------- Bruguera 93, 94
W --------------- Sampras 94, Stich 91
USO ------------ Sampras 95, Edberg 91

8 times.

Fun fact: Even distribution hence GOAT...

Rafter

AO -------------- Agassi 95, 01
FO -------------- Bruguera 94
W --------------- Ivanisevic 01, Sampras 00

5 times.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Krajicek

FO -------------- Kafelnikov 96
USO ------------ Edberg 92

Kafelnikov

AO -------------- Agassi 95, 00, Becker 96, Sampras 94
FO -------------- Kuerten 97, 00, 01, Muster 95
USO ------------ Hewitt 01, Agassi 99

10 times.

Fun fact: Kuerten had to beat Kafelnikov in all three of his runs to his FO titles.

Enqvist

AO -------------- Kafelnikov 99, Courier 92
FO -------------- Gaudio 04
W --------------- Sampras 98
USO ------------ Sampras 93

5 times.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Corretja

FO -------------- Costa 02, Kuerten 01, Moya 98
USO ------------ Sampras 96

4 times.

A Medvedev

FO -------------- Agassi 99, Kuerten 97, Muster 95, Bruguera 93, 94, Courier 92
USO ------------ Rafter 97

7 times.

Anderson

W --------------- Djokovic 11, 15, 18, 21
USO ------------ Nadal 17, Cilic 14

6 times.

Fun fact: 2012-14 he lost 5 slams to Berdych.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Blake

USO ------------ Federer 06, Hewitt 01

Schwartzman

AO -------------- Djokovic 20
FO -------------- Nadal 18, 20
USO ------------ Nadal 19

4 times.

Santoro

USO ------------ Federer 04, 05, Sampras 93

Fun fact: USO wasn't his best slam by any margin, he was just unlucky to get 3 winners early.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Martin

AO -------------- Sampras 94, Agassi 01, Kafelnikov 99
FO -------------- Courier 91
W --------------- Sampras 94
USO ------------ Agassi 94, 99, Safin 00, Sampras 95

9 times.

Stich

AO -------------- Courier 93
FO -------------- Kafelnikov 96, Courier 91
W --------------- Krajicek 96
USO ------------ Agassi 94

5 times.

P Korda

AO -------------- Courier 93
FO -------------- Courier 92
W --------------- Sampras 97

3 times.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Muster

AO -------------- Courier 92, Sampras 97, Lendl 89
FO -------------- Courier 92, Kuerten 97, Gomez 90
USO ------------ Agassi 94, Sampras 90

8 times.

Fun fact: never won a match at Wimbledon, played only 4 times there. (This would not have happened in the 00s and 10s.)

Agassi

FO -------------- Courier 91, 92, Gomez 90, Wilander 88
W --------------- Sampras 93, 99
USO ------------ Federer 04, 05, Sampras 90, 95, 02, Rafter 97

12 times.

Berrettini

AO -------------- Nadal 22
FO -------------- Djokovic 21
W --------------- Djokovic 21
USO ------------ Nadal 19

4 times.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Rusedski

AO -------------- Becker 96, Agassi 95
W --------------- Ivanisevic 01, Sampras 95
USO ------------ Sampras 02, Rafter 97

6 times.

Delpo

FO -------------- Nadal 07, 18, Federer 09
W --------------- Federer 07
USO ------------ Djokovic 18, Nadal 17, Wawrinka 16

7 times.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
McEnroe - 12 (2, 3, 3, 4)

Connors - 15 (1, 0, 6, 8)

Agassi - 13 (0, 5, 2, 6)

Chang - 11 (1, 2, 2, 6)
Agassi doesn't have 5 losses at FO.

100% not.

You probably confused one of those with the 5th: Ferrero 02, Muster 94, Kafelnikov 95. It's understandable if you did, but in order to do this list as accurately as possible you need to know ALL the slam winners in the last decades.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Mecir

AO -------------- Lendl 89, Edberg 87
FO -------------- Lendl 87
W --------------- Edberg 88, 90, Becker 86
USO ------------ Becker 89, Lendl 86

8 times.

Fun fact: Mecir retired aged 26. Yes, careers were MUCH shorter before the 10s.

Pioline

AO -------------- Korda 98
FO -------------- Muster 95
W --------------- Sampras 97
USO ------------ Sampras 93

4 times.

Bruguera

AO -------------- Courier 93
FO -------------- Kuerten 97
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Wilander

AO -------------- Edberg 85
FO -------------- Lendl 84, 87, Noah 83
W --------------- Cash 87
USO ------------ Lendl 87

6 times.

Fun fact: won his 1st slam in his 3rd attempt, aged 17. Those were indeed different time in terms of age. Won his last, 7th, slam aged 23. At an age where we today get excited when a NextGen finally wins a M1000.

Edberg

AO -------------- Courier 92, 93, Lendl 90, Wilander 84, 88
FO -------------- Courier 91, Chang 89
W --------------- Stich 91, Becker 89
USO ------------ Lendl 86, McEnroe 84

11 times.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Chang

AO -------------- Becker 96
FO -------------- Kuerten 00, Muster 95
W --------------- Sampras 94, Edberg 90
USO ------------ Rafter 97, Sampras 93, 96, Agassi 94, Edberg 91, 92

11 times.

Ivanisevic

FO -------------- Courier 92
W --------------- Sampras 94, 95, 98, Agassi 92
USO ------------ Rafter 98, Sampras 96

7 times.

Gasquet

AO -------------- Federer 18
FO -------------- Nadal 05, 18, Costa 02
W --------------- Djokovic 15, Federer 06, 07
USO ------------ Medvedev 21, Djokovic 18, Nadal 13

10 times.

Fun fact: his first slam match was at the same time a defeat vs the later champ.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Nishikori

AO -------------- Djokovic 16, 19, Federer 17
FO -------------- Nadal 13, 19
W --------------- Djokovic 18, Nadal 10
USO ------------ Cilic 14, Djokovic 18, Wawrinka 16

10 times.

Stepanek

AO -------------- Djokovic 13
W --------------- Djokovic 14
USO ------------ Federer 08

Fognini

FO -------------- Nadal 13
W --------------- Federer 12

Gulbis

W -------------- Nadal 08

Kyrgios

W -------------- Murray 16

Fun fact: 15-16 lost 4 matches to Murray.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Davydenko

AO -------------- Federer 06, 10
FO -------------- Costa 02
USO ------------ Djokovic 11, Federer 06, 07

6 times.

Rosset

AO -------------- Courier 92

Tarango

USO -------- Edberg 91

Rios

AO -------------- Korda 98
FO -------------- Moya 98

Ferreira

AO -------------- Agassi 03, Becker 91
FO -------------- Courier 91
USO ------------ Agassi 94

4 times.
 
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